BoostKing’s OEM+ Turbo Project - Page 27

BoostKing’s OEM+ Turbo Project

This is a discussion on BoostKing’s OEM+ Turbo Project within the F150 Ecoboost Performance forums, part of the F150 Ecoboost Garage category; I am going to log my BCB tune with HP tuners and watch the turbo shaft speed(its a PID there, couldnt find it in LiveLink). ...

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  1. #261
    Eco-Beast mass-hole's Avatar

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    I am going to log my BCB tune with HP tuners and watch the turbo shaft speed(its a PID there, couldnt find it in LiveLink). If it gets to 210-220K+ rpm then I'd say thats a good indicator of if the wastegate upgrade is really the answer for me.
    snakebitten and Blown F-150 like this.
    2014 Lariat Screw, 157", Max Tow, 502A - Gearhead Tuned, AFE CAC, CRP Manifolds, RX Catch Can, Bilstein 5100, AirLift RideControl, 275/60R20 Wrangler Duratracs

    2006 Jeep Liberty CRD(diesel) - GDE Tune, Straight piped, AFE filter, GTB2060 custom build turbo, 2.5" Lift, ARB bumper, 4.10's, Detroit Truetracs F/R

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    Eco-Beast mass-hole's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by WooBoost View Post
    If the waste gate was opening, wouldn't we see less than desired boost levels?
    The reason I even discovered that my BCB tune was going to 100% WGDC was because it threw a underboost code while I just happened to be doing a 3rd gear pull while logging.

    I am still not convinced whether its the wastegate blowing open, or simply asking to much from the stock turbos. It could just be falling off the right side of the compressor map.
    Last edited by mass-hole; 07-11-2019 at 11:35 AM.
    2014 Lariat Screw, 157", Max Tow, 502A - Gearhead Tuned, AFE CAC, CRP Manifolds, RX Catch Can, Bilstein 5100, AirLift RideControl, 275/60R20 Wrangler Duratracs

    2006 Jeep Liberty CRD(diesel) - GDE Tune, Straight piped, AFE filter, GTB2060 custom build turbo, 2.5" Lift, ARB bumper, 4.10's, Detroit Truetracs F/R

  3. #263
    Gold Supporting Member snakebitten's Avatar
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    Just curious, but what's the shaft speed at say 18 lbs of boost at sea level?

    And what is considered the safe limit for these oem Gen2 turbos, if anyone has an opinion?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    2018 KingRanch Kingsville Edition- Gen2 3.5 - Runs SO good on Factory tunes. Simply amazing. Good Job Ford

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  5. #264
    Eco-Beast WooBoost's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mass-hole View Post
    The reason I even discovered that my BCB tune was going to 100% WGDC was because it threw a underboost code while I just happened to be doing a 3rd gear pull while logging.

    I am still not convinced whether its the wastegate blowing open, or simply asking to much from the stock turbos. It could just be falling off the right side of the compressor map.
    Right, so if you're targeting a certain boost and it only requires 50% waste gate duty cycle, why is the upgraded waste gate going to do anything? I dont understand geoff's post "blowing open at 50%" because 50% is exactly all that is required to meet the boost you're asking for (in this example), it it stayed closed, it would make more boost than I would want. Am I looking at this wrong?

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    Ecoboost Master Envious's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
    Good stuff right here for the mountain dwellers!

    I'm only a visitor to paradise and the sea-level Ecoboost set up gets me there and back. Amazingly so, in fact.

    But if I were to stay (I have ZERO intention of being one of those "foreigners that ruined everything") I'd definitely be going this route for addressing the atmosphere.

    (I'd also adjust my Espresso recipe to accommodate the change in boiling temperatures. Lol)

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    Nah you are welcome. I will give you your credentials lol

    And we can drink espresso. That sounds good right now!
    2013 FX4 - Black Betty
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    BoostKing’s OEM+ Turbo Project

    Quote Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
    Just curious, but what's the shaft speed at say 18 lbs of boost at sea level?

    And what is considered the safe limit for these oem Gen2 turbos, if anyone has an opinion?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    I dont know exactly without a compressor map or someone logging it. HPTuners shows an "overspeed limit" map that plots the pressure ratios vs mass flow and air charge temp for my 2014. It doesn't say what they consider overspeed though.

    Safe speed limits: almost every compressor map out there has a high limit of 540-580 m/s tip speed(speed of the OD of the compressor). For the 2013+ Ecoboost turbos with an OD of 50.8mm, that puts it somewhere in the 200,000 to 220,000 rpm range.


    Quote Originally Posted by WooBoost View Post
    Right, so if you're targeting a certain boost and it only requires 50% waste gate duty cycle, why is the upgraded waste gate going to do anything? I dont understand geoff's post "blowing open at 50%" because 50% is exactly all that is required to meet the boost you're asking for (in this example), it it stayed closed, it would make more boost than I would want. Am I looking at this wrong?
    You wouldnt change it out if you are hitting your boost. This would be for people who are not making their boost target.

    And yeah i get what you mean after rereading. If your truck is holding 50%wgdc then it’s probably not blowing open, otherwise it would be increasing the duty cycle to try and match the desired boost.
    Last edited by mass-hole; 07-11-2019 at 12:29 PM.
    2014 Lariat Screw, 157", Max Tow, 502A - Gearhead Tuned, AFE CAC, CRP Manifolds, RX Catch Can, Bilstein 5100, AirLift RideControl, 275/60R20 Wrangler Duratracs

    2006 Jeep Liberty CRD(diesel) - GDE Tune, Straight piped, AFE filter, GTB2060 custom build turbo, 2.5" Lift, ARB bumper, 4.10's, Detroit Truetracs F/R

  8. #267
    Gold Supporting Member snakebitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Envious View Post
    Nah you are welcome. I will give you your credentials lol

    And we can drink espresso. That sounds good right now!
    Haha. The welcome mat is incredibly flattering. And much appreciated.

    But what you might not know is I could never relocate without bringing my family with me. And I'm sorry to be so blunt about it but you should NEVER agree to that!

    Still, I'll be privileged to ever brew you up a cup.

    There's a coffee bean roasting guru in Mancos. His beans are available right about where I put the red dot. Good stuff!

    In an effort to not be 100% guilty of hijacking, I will ask another Turbo Boost question.....

    200,000+ RPM's? I just can't get my head around how this stuff we have under our hoods these days actually survive. I mean it is EXPECTED for a Turbo to last 100,000 miles now. It's just crazy.

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  9. #268
    Ecoboost Regular full-race geoff's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mass-hole View Post
    I dont know exactly without a compressor map or someone logging it. HPTuners shows an "overspeed limit" map that plots the pressure ratios vs mass flow and air charge temp for my 2014. It doesn't say what they consider overspeed though. Safe speed limits: almost every compressor map out there has a high limit of 540-580 m/s tip speed(speed of the OD of the compressor). For the 2013+ Ecoboost turbos with an OD of 50.8mm, that puts it somewhere in the 200,000 to 220,000 rpm range.
    unfortunately your OEM frame turbos do not have speed sensors (can not log speed without a sensor) and the compressor maps are not allowed to be released. HP Tuners' turbo speed is inferred (not actual). and yes 560m/s tip speed is a safe bet for max rotational speed. 580 is pretty much the critical limit. Only F1 turbos are safe to 600m/s tip speed range

    Quote Originally Posted by WooBoost View Post
    Right, so if you're targeting a certain boost and it only requires 50% waste gate duty cycle, why is the upgraded waste gate going to do anything?
    In that instance, a stiffer WG spring will typically allow for earlier spool (only a benefit on bigger turbos). there is no benefit to the top end boost if a softer spring is already achieving target. The thing to keep in mind is a wastegate is literally *Wasting* energy. the best wastegate is no wastegate


    Quote Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
    200,000+ RPM's? I just can't get my head around how this stuff we have under our hoods these days actually survive. I mean it is EXPECTED for a Turbo to last 100,000 miles now. It's just crazy.
    the smaller a turbo is, the higher rotation speed (RPM) will be reached at 560m/s tip speed. really is impressive when you think about the fact that these turbos have a relatively long life and are using journal bearings. almost every car on the road has a turbo operating well above 100,000rpm. On that same note, its a bit scary to think about how many small shops bastardize turbos, stuff random chinese wheels inside the housings with no concern or ability to test for burst containment

    some bedtime videos:

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    Gold Supporting Member snakebitten's Avatar
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    Holy Exploding Turbos!

    I thought the 500frames per second exploding Turbo video was impressive. And violent.

    But the real time exploding counterfeit Turbo in the Cummins video made me CRINGE.

    I never really considered the counterfeit world in light of turbochargers. We live in amazing times. Lol

    By the way, now I'm gonna have nightmares.
    My hood is aluminum and my windshield is glass. So how do I relocate my turbos behind me? In the bed. In a lead box. Gonna need some loooonnnnggg headers and cold charge piping.

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    Eco-Beast mass-hole's Avatar

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    BoostKing’s OEM+ Turbo Project

    Here is a screenshot of the log using my Unleashed 91 performance tune:



    Was hovering around 210,000 rpm and dinged 211,000. Peak flow was ~37.5 lb/min

    For some reason my BCB and GH tunes won’t load up properly in HPTuners. I think its because they change the strategy so the software doesn’t recognize it as a default PCM and doesnt load up the extended PIDs. It actually does the same thing in LiveLink too.
    Last edited by mass-hole; 07-11-2019 at 08:03 PM.
    Envious likes this.
    2014 Lariat Screw, 157", Max Tow, 502A - Gearhead Tuned, AFE CAC, CRP Manifolds, RX Catch Can, Bilstein 5100, AirLift RideControl, 275/60R20 Wrangler Duratracs

    2006 Jeep Liberty CRD(diesel) - GDE Tune, Straight piped, AFE filter, GTB2060 custom build turbo, 2.5" Lift, ARB bumper, 4.10's, Detroit Truetracs F/R

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