Another cold start rattle post...need some input... - Page 2

Another cold start rattle post...need some input...

This is a discussion on Another cold start rattle post...need some input... within the F150 Ecoboost Problems forums, part of the F150 Ecoboost Forum category; Originally Posted by snakebitten Do a fresh oil change and Motorcraft filter. Many many folks get great results from fresh oil. Sent from my SM-N950U ...

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Thread: Another cold start rattle post...need some input...

  1. #11
    Ecoboost Jr Member carboncow's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
    Do a fresh oil change and Motorcraft filter.
    Many many folks get great results from fresh oil.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    I'll have one coming up after a trip in a few weeks...but confidence is low. I've had the clacking over the last 4 oil changes (DIY). Don't recall if the last filter was motocraft...but prob was because I seem to recall it being cheaper at our local Meijers (hard to believe).

  2. #12
    Rookie Longmont2237's Avatar

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    My 2014 with 61,600 miles just started this rattle noise on Thursday and I have an appointment with local Ford dealer/garage on Wednesday. I’ll leave the truck Tuesday nite so they can have an opportunity to hear it on a cold start and make decision on what fix is. Anything I should make sure of when they assess repair. After reading posts to this blog I’m guessing it will be a TSB 18-2305.

  3. #13
    Ecoboost Jr Member carboncow's Avatar

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    Just an update...

    I have a technique working to elevate or minimize the rattle. For me a no-start for 10 sec proceeded by a small wait. Then another 5-6 sec attempt and then I let my foot off the gas as I continue to crank. This has reduced it in a few cases removed it. It's a pretty battle rattle these days...so major help until fixed or sold!
    snakebitten likes this.

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  5. #14
    Ecoboost Pro Mikedick77's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by carboncow View Post
    Just an update...

    I have a technique working to elevate or minimize the rattle. For me a no-start for 10 sec proceeded by a small wait. Then another 5-6 sec attempt and then I let my foot off the gas as I continue to crank. This has reduced it in a few cases removed it. It's a pretty battle rattle these days...so major help until fixed or sold!

    You might try an oil change, Motorcraft filter like mentioned above by Snake. This has in many cases reduced this rattle. Including on my own truck. Used Castrol Magnatec 5w-30 in mine. Also might try to use a higher octane gas. Nothing but 93 touches my truck's injectors. This combo nets my particular truck good results.
    2013 Eco XTR 4x4 Super Crew 5.5 bed 3:31 Rear
    Stock, Weep hole, 160 degree T-Stat, Autolite Iridium XP5863 gapped properly, Castrol Magnatec 5w-30, and 93 octane
    NO OIL LEAKS!!

    Purrs like a kitten! It's called maintenence. This shouldn't surprise people.

  6. #15
    Ecoboost Jr Member carboncow's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikedick77 View Post
    You might try an oil change, Motorcraft filter like mentioned above by Snake. This has in many cases reduced this rattle. Including on my own truck. Used Castrol Magnatec 5w-30 in mine. Also might try to use a higher octane gas. Nothing but 93 touches my truck's injectors. This combo nets my particular truck good results.
    Mike...thanks for the comments but I'm not seeing any science in this. Using higher octane fuel when it's not called or his kind of a old wives tale that's been disproved on many occasions and it's a stretch to think octane has anything todo with a known cam phaser and/or chain stretch is quite a stretch of the imagination IMHO. I've read enough on octane over the years that it seems some of the claims people have is right up there with the believe that rotors warp from daily driving!

    As far as the oil cannot argue that one as we know they can be off from brand to brand...but again as stated I've had this rattle get progressively worse irregardless of a fresh change.

  7. #16
    Ecoboost Pro Mikedick77's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by carboncow View Post
    Mike...thanks for the comments but I'm not seeing any science in this. Using higher octane fuel when it's not called or his kind of a old wives tale that's been disproved on many occasions and it's a stretch to think octane has anything todo with a known cam phaser and/or chain stretch is quite a stretch of the imagination IMHO. I've read enough on octane over the years that it seems some of the claims people have is right up there with the believe that rotors warp from daily driving!

    As far as the oil cannot argue that one as we know they can be off from brand to brand...but again as stated I've had this rattle get progressively worse irregardless of a fresh change.
    Well, to each his own I guess. Some people think it's ok to stretch oil for 10k miles on these trucks too, just because the oil bottle or the manual say so. Good luck with your timing chain swap.

    Edit: I'll not leave you hanging on the octane thing either. The perceived science in this, is that some of us who take short trips to work, say less than 10 minutes, and especially in the winter get to see our oil trashed by fuel saturation. Before these warm up, they run rich cycles. The more octane would theoretically provide a better burn, thus leaving far less fuel saturation in the oil, not thinning it out, like these engines don't like, at all. It's cool. I'm not claiming it works for everyone. In fact, in my first post, I never even claimed it'd work in anyone but my truck.
    Last edited by Mikedick77; 06-10-2019 at 05:26 PM.
    2013 Eco XTR 4x4 Super Crew 5.5 bed 3:31 Rear
    Stock, Weep hole, 160 degree T-Stat, Autolite Iridium XP5863 gapped properly, Castrol Magnatec 5w-30, and 93 octane
    NO OIL LEAKS!!

    Purrs like a kitten! It's called maintenence. This shouldn't surprise people.

  8. #17
    Eco-Beast noodles's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikedick77 View Post
    Well, to each his own I guess. Some people think it's ok to stretch oil for 10k miles on these trucks too, just because the oil bottle or the manual say so. Good luck with your timing chain swap.

    Edit: I'll not leave you hanging on the octane thing either. The perceived science in this, is that some of us who take short trips to work, say less than 10 minutes, and especially in the winter get to see our oil trashed by fuel saturation. Before these warm up, they run rich cycles. The more octane would theoretically provide a better burn, thus leaving far less fuel saturation in the oil, not thinning it out, like these engines don't like, at all. It's cool. I'm not claiming it works for everyone. In fact, in my first post, I never even claimed it'd work in anyone but my truck.
    On the contrary, the lower the octane, the quicker and more complete it will burn.
    The bad side of it, is that it will not help to mitigate knock when timing is advanced, or boost is increased, due to pre-igniting when the conditions allow for it.

    Octane rating won't help or hinder the issue with the phasers.
    Mikedick77 likes this.
    13 SuperCrew Ruby Red 302A, 4x4 6.5 box, 3.31, Roush 22's. Twin catch cans, "leveled" with Bilsteins (-2 front, -3 rear), AirLift, SCT. Other's may have displacement on demand... I have an endless supply of torque at my right foot's demand.


  9. #18
    Ecoboost Jr Member carboncow's Avatar

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    It's amazing the theories on people equating octane with power or healthier fuel...when actually clean fuel is more important.

    I always appreciate peoples activism on keeping their cars top notch but it's amazing the things we worry about in light of understanding the science. Just because something is theorical posible doesn't mean it has any real world applicate for the average consumer.

    Just like the old timers (I say that with love Dad) that cannot get over newer cars have 10K mile oil intervals. I get it...engineers do make mistakes but with advanced algorithms to determine hours, temps, cold/heat cycles, load, over revs, towing...they have a pretty good grip on what the items they design can do. Engines have such high tolerances compared to the days of 3K oil changes...but dad cannot help live in the past!

    I'm highjacking my own thread because I love these topics...so I'll copy/paste an article I read awhile back on AAA that I keep in my notes to share. As stated it's right up there with those who tell me they "warped" their rotors...

    Americans wasted $2.1 billion last year on premium fuel for cars designed to run on regular gasoline, according to a new study from AAA. Despite common misconceptions stemming from its higher price tag and elite-sounding name, premium fuel doesn't provide any benefits for engines that aren't built for it, experts say.
    "Drivers see the 'premium' name at the pump and may assume the fuel is better for their vehicle," said John Nielsen, AAA's managing director of Automotive Engineering and Repair, in a news release Tuesday. "AAA cautions drivers that premium gasoline is higher octane, not higher quality, and urges drivers to follow the owner's manual recommendations for their vehicle's fuel."
    Higher octane gasoline is able to withstand higher pressures inside the engine than cheaper, regular gasoline. But the pressure inside engines that are designed to run on regular gasoline isn't great enough to require the higher octane rating, rendering premium fuel useless.
    "Premium gasoline is specifically formulated to be compatible with specific types of engine designs, and most vehicles cannot take advantage of the higher octane rating," said Megan McKernan, manager of the Automobile Club of Southern California's Automotive Research Center. "Using premium fuel in a vehicle designed for regular is like throwing dollars out the window while you are driving."
    Although the majority of vehicles — 70 percent — run on regular gasoline, approximately 16.5 million drivers put premium fuel in their cars at least once last year, AAA found. When you consider that premium costs, on average, about 50 cents a gallon more than regular, which adds up to $2.1 billion wasted.
    Drivers looking to upgrade their gasoline should seek out fuel of a higher quality, not a higher octane level, Mr. Nielsen said. A study published by AAA in July found that using higher quality gasoline results in significantly fewer engine deposits, increases vehicle performance, and improves fuel economy.
    "AAA was surprised to learn the extent to which detergent additives impact gasoline quality," Nielsen said in July. "As advertised, tested TOP TIER gasolines kept engines remarkably cleaner than other fuels we tested."
    On the flip side, some of the 16 percent of American drivers whose high-performance vehicles are meant to run on premium gas may wish to downgrade to regular due to the price difference. But the car website Edmunds.com advises car owners hoping to save some money to consult their owner's manual. If the vehicle is described as "premium recommended," it's safe to try switching to regular gasoline. But if your vehicle is "premium required," it's best to stick to high octane.

    EDIT: As a side note I used to run lower octane in my Vw Touareg with a 3.6L for a few tanks at a time and never saw any difference and never got any denotation. While one of my Volvos (turbo) clearly didn't like low test.
    Last edited by carboncow; 06-11-2019 at 09:33 AM.

  10. #19
    Gold Supporting Member snakebitten's Avatar
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    I have no beef with running lower octane if the motor was designed to be run on it AND it has no method for adjusting to a higher octane fuel and therefore leverage any advantages.

    But that's just it. The Ecoboost, by design, DOES have the ability to leverage higher octane. It's really amazing.

    I had only one other vehicle that had such an ability. A 1984 SVO Mustang with a turbocharged I4. It even had a factory dash switch for "Premium Fuel". In some ways it was a precursor to the Era of "tuning"?

    But I agree that lots of motors out there are "hardwired" for 87 (or similar) and there's no discernable advantage of burning Premium.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Mikedick77 likes this.
    2018 KingRanch Kingsville Edition- Gen2 3.5 - Runs SO good on Factory tunes. Simply amazing. Good Job Ford

  11. #20
    Ecoboost Pro Mikedick77's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
    I have no beef with running lower octane if the motor was designed to be run on it AND it has no method for adjusting to a higher octane fuel and therefore leverage any advantages.

    But that's just it. The Ecoboost, by design, DOES have the ability to leverage higher octane. It's really amazing.


    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    This. There is a difference in burning better octane on this platform. Octane does make more power. I can appreciate people's opinions on this too. Works for me doesn't always work for the next guy, nor will it always make sense. Maybe mine just runs like **** on 87 and I don't like it. Using better oil, changing more often, and doing the research on this will probably be the answer. I know mine can sit for 3 days and not rattle, when it was doing the rattle 50%+ of the time before (on cold soak).
    snakebitten likes this.
    2013 Eco XTR 4x4 Super Crew 5.5 bed 3:31 Rear
    Stock, Weep hole, 160 degree T-Stat, Autolite Iridium XP5863 gapped properly, Castrol Magnatec 5w-30, and 93 octane
    NO OIL LEAKS!!

    Purrs like a kitten! It's called maintenence. This shouldn't surprise people.

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