Ford F150 3.5L Ecoboost Rattle Upon Start Up- Timing Chain Stretch Issues TSB - Page 106

Ford F150 3.5L Ecoboost Rattle Upon Start Up- Timing Chain Stretch Issues TSB

This is a discussion on Ford F150 3.5L Ecoboost Rattle Upon Start Up- Timing Chain Stretch Issues TSB within the F150 Ecoboost Problems forums, part of the F150 Ecoboost Forum category; Originally Posted by RMB_Ryan PM me I can help recommend how that can happen in an excellent aged fashion. Lol Hahaha. I bet. Sent from ...

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Thread: Ford F150 3.5L Ecoboost Rattle Upon Start Up- Timing Chain Stretch Issues TSB

  1. #1051
    Ecoboost Pro Lizardking419's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMB_Ryan View Post
    PM me I can help recommend how that can happen in an excellent aged fashion. Lol
    Hahaha. I bet.

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    One thing I wanted to make sure I stated clearly. Well over 90% of issues people think is their timing chain stretched is not the actual issue and the chain is not an issue at all.

    The chains are actually holding up better than I would have hoped given the design of the timing system and the amount of stress and stretch applied to specific areas of the primary chain as the chain runs past a critical location with a not ideal tensioning position.

    The clacking cold start ďtiming chain stretchĒ that everyone says is NOT correct info almost 100% of the time. Itís not the chain clacking loosely slapping or anything of the sort. It is the intake cam phasers being pushed too hard (in many many cases) and the 60 degrees of variable cam timing ford allows them to move, is a LOT of phasing by all standards. Now this CAN be exacerbated when tuned for max cam timing and power because your intake cams live more in the -60 deg world optimized for performance. The wear the phasers are prone to causes oil to drain back out of a location internally it should not be draining back, and wear is allowing the oil to drain down through the excessive clearance or wear area. Hence when cold starting the phasers have zero oil pressure causing the clack which is them moving side to side with minimal internal lubrication.

    We can pin the phasers (intake only) 5-10 degrees and eliminate this wear.


  3. #1053
    Ecoboost Pro DNA Dan's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMB_Ryan View Post
    Generally timing chain services are about a 100k thing. I can see how a dual overhead variable cam V6 with the triple chain design V6 would prematurely wear at 60k to 100k

    They are generally not maintained properly. Despite what most people post about changing oil at 3000 or 5000 miles religiously it is 95% of the time not true. So you are left with ford selling people on a semi synthetic oil that is too thin to begin with, then telling you (originally) go 10k miles and come back. By then your running 0w20 oil and wearing parts out no matter if itís a Ferrari. So I donít believe everything I hear but what I do believe is what I see. I see whatís wearing (premature or at time itís suppose to) and it is generally speaking not a Ford problem. OCI and maintenance by 99% of people who complain isnít what it is said to be. Further almost 99.9% of the time the chains are not stretched actually even half way to their designed service max spec. Phasers are the issue clacking at cold start and that is for a couple reasons but when you donít have the truth on how it was really kept up with on service, the phasers should wear and clack.
    The original recommendation per Ford was to go by the OLM for oil change intervals. In many cases this was well beyond 3000-5000 miles. So it's the fault of owners for not "knowing better"?

    I don't think people have an issue with the parts wearing, or failing (for whatever reason.) all manufacturers have their problems. This is really about Ford's response to the issue. Ford should have owned the fact that they misled and misinformed owners. They told owners WRONGLY to push the motor to 10K miles with a 0w20 oil. As you know, this is a recipe for premature wear. The least they could have done is offer owners some credit on this specific repair if it occured prematurely. To say the timing chain failing <70K is akin to changing tires, brakes, a starter, etc. is absolutely ludicrous IMO. We can agree to disagree on this point, but again, give me an example of this being an industry norm.

    They should have vetted the premature wear issue in their engineering and design or told customers a different mainentance schedule. They didn't do either, which is why I have an issue with buying another ford in the future. It's the company's response to this problem (which was greatly their own doing) that has turned me away.
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  5. #1054
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    Quote Originally Posted by DNA Dan View Post
    The original recommendation per Ford was to go by the OLM for oil change intervals. In many cases this was well beyond 3000-5000 miles. So it's the fault of owners for not "knowing better"?

    I don't think people have an issue with the parts wearing, or failing (for whatever reason.) all manufacturers have their problems. This is really about Ford's response to the issue. Ford should have owned the fact that they misled and misinformed owners. They told owners WRONGLY to push the motor to 10K miles with a 0w20 oil. As you know, this is a recipe for premature wear. The least they could have done is offer owners some credit on this specific repair if it occured prematurely. To say the timing chain failing <70K is akin to changing tires, brakes, a starter, etc. is absolutely ludicrous IMO. We can agree to disagree on this point, but again, give me an example of this being an industry norm.

    They should have vetted the premature wear issue in their engineering and design or told customers a different mainentance schedule. They didn't do either, which is why I have an issue with buying another ford in the future. It's the company's response to this problem (which was greatly their own doing) that has turned me away.
    Could not agree more with the 10k oci thing. Remember these were also 5w20 spec when they first cake out. Lol.

    So I do agree that if you have a issue at just out of warranty and you have owned the vehicle prior to the 5000oci change they should assist particularly if your at 60,001 miles or within 75

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMB_Ryan View Post
    One thing I wanted to make sure I stated clearly. Well over 90% of issues people think is their timing chain stretched is not the actual issue and the chain is not an issue at all.

    The chains are actually holding up better than I would have hoped given the design of the timing system and the amount of stress and stretch applied to specific areas of the primary chain as the chain runs past a critical location with a not ideal tensioning position.

    The clacking cold start ďtiming chain stretchĒ that everyone says is NOT correct info almost 100% of the time. Itís not the chain clacking loosely slapping or anything of the sort. It is the intake cam phasers being pushed too hard (in many many cases) and the 60 degrees of variable cam timing ford allows them to move, is a LOT of phasing by all standards. Now this CAN be exacerbated when tuned for max cam timing and power because your intake cams live more in the -60 deg world optimized for performance. The wear the phasers are prone to causes oil to drain back out of a location internally it should not be draining back, and wear is allowing the oil to drain down through the excessive clearance or wear area. Hence when cold starting the phasers have zero oil pressure causing the clack which is them moving side to side with minimal internal lubrication.

    We can pin the phasers (intake only) 5-10 degrees and eliminate this wear.

    Ryan, in terms of the phasers if they are pushed harder tuned, canít we just add stuff to a tune to set them just how they should be to avoid this issue? Or you mean overall design change is needed for the phasers?


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    Ryan, do you know exactly when the oci change was made?
    2012 SCREW Eco FX4 Tuxedo Black, Fully loaded, Max Tow, 3.73 rear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMB_Ryan View Post
    Could not agree more with the 10k oci thing. Remember these were also 5w20 spec when they first cake out. Lol.

    So I do agree that if you have a issue at just out of warranty and you have owned the vehicle prior to the 5000oci change they should assist particularly if your at 60,001 miles or within 75
    Ryan, could you see a high mileage synthetic oil in conjunction with short OCI's (with a little higher viscosity base formula that the high mileage oils advertise) being beneficial to help with the phaser wear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DNA Dan View Post
    Ryan, do you know exactly when the oci change was made?
    I'm trying to find more info for you, but I believe the 2011 model year (maybe 2012?) had THREE versions of the owners manual. The original stated this:
    edit: removed some content for bad information.
    Last edited by Elmore328; 09-07-2018 at 10:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmore328 View Post
    Im trying to find more info for you, but Ibelieve the 2011 model year (maybe 2012?) had THREE versions of the owners manual. The original stated this:

    In terms of oil consumption, the 2011 F-150 EcoBoost has a 10,000-mile oil change interval and includes an intelligent oil life monitor (IOLM). The IOLM uses actual engine and vehicle operating conditions to more precisely calculate anticipated service intervals, depending on vehicle operating conditions, as follows:

    Up to 10,000 miles: normal commuting with highway driving
    5,000 to 7,500 miles: trailer tow/high-load driving
    3,000 to 5,000 miles: short-trip usage, extreme temperatures
    Instead of using a predetermined interval schedule (either by time or mileage), the IOLM tells customers, based on their driving habits and engine operating conditions, when to change the oil through simple communications in the message center.


    And the revised third edition OM stated to do it at a maximum of 7,500 miles
    @DNA Dan
    I just browsed through all versions of the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Owners Manuals and here is what I found:
    2011 through 2012 OM's state for the 3.5L EcoBoost engine to use 5W-30 oil and change it
    As indicated by message center; Do not exceed one year or 10,000 miles (16,000km)

    This was not changed until the 2013 manual, which is totally revamped and states:
    3,000-4,999 miles for extreme driving and towing
    5,000-7,499 miles for Severe (moderate to heavy towing, extending idling, extended hot/cold operation
    7,500-10,000 miles for Normal (normal commuting, no towing, no extended idling)
    -Clark

    2013 Ingot Silver SuperCrew XLT - Texas Edition, 3.5L EcoBoost, 3.31 e-locker, AEM drop-in filter, Self-fabricated grill insert, AVS low-profile vent shades, Falken Wildpeak A/T3W 265/70/18, BakFlip G2 tri-fold bed cover

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    Quote Originally Posted by aj.n.amber View Post
    Ryan, in terms of the phasers if they are pushed harder tuned, canít we just add stuff to a tune to set them just how they should be to avoid this issue? Or you mean overall design change is needed for the phasers?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Honestly, I have only visual inspection info, and engineering inspection of my comments by a 30 year engine design engineer who is so smart he makes me look like I drool and eat mashed potatoes with my feet. 🤣🤣🤣.

    So no mathematical engineering info, so if your going to run a tune and bolt ons than just do it. I do t think it is a big deal, we happen to just think these should be pinned 5 deg less anyway from ford

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