XDI-HPFP-Installation F150 - Page 2

XDI-HPFP-Installation F150

This is a discussion on XDI-HPFP-Installation F150 within the F150 Ecoboost Guides and How-Tos forums, part of the F150 Ecoboost Garage category; Originally Posted by WooBoost lol. It's just so many factors this is why I like to see others sort out the BS first. a pump ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 29
Like Tree19Likes

Thread: XDI-HPFP-Installation F150

  1. #11
    Gold Supporting Member TX-Ripper's Avatar
    Gold Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    The Great State of Texas
    Posts
    3,151
    Member #
    15721
    Liked
    1039 times
    Quote Originally Posted by WooBoost View Post
    lol. It's just so many factors this is why I like to see others sort out the BS first. a pump and turbos cost the same. Turbos will provide a lot more pleasure and power, however i would need a shop to do it($$) bc im not in a location currently I can do work like that myself (although I am capable) on the other hand the pump is easier to install than changing spark plugs. To run e85 in even stock boost or mess with tables for a little more boost (menmtioned above) would require a dyno tune, turbos would as well. So if I got a pump, it would only be for 93 and bumping boost some bc i dont have a want for dyno tune unless turbos. On top of all this I commute to work everyday in traffic and a few times a month I drive a couple hundred miles away. Turbos would favor this, bc if i am going to be running 93 on turbos and pump for the benefits of each, why only get a little hp on the pump when turbos give a lot more power. On top of all that, do I even need any of those? Maybe just run 87 always bc DD. This is all the **** that goes through my head.
    It would be fun for me to watch you buy either of those two items.

    Why let someone else test it when you can.
    Don't drink the Kool-Aid

    Current: 2018 F150 5.0 4x4 Platinum Screw 3.31 Gears Whipple Supercharged 754rwhp 616rwtq : Remote Dyno Tuned with HPtuners by Palm Beach Dyno
    Sold: 2016 F150 3.5 Ecoboost Screw Platinum 3.55 Full-Race GT Turbos, Intercooler, Downpipes
    Link to my YouTube Channel - Dyno videos, Racing ect: https://shorturl.at/epIMY
    Link to my Build Thread: https://shorturl.at/cdqtE

  2. #12
    Eco-Beast WooBoost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    4,194
    Member #
    6556
    Liked
    1208 times
    I dont think theres any testing. The pump will allow me to run more boost on stock turbo bc fuel rail pressure should keep up and not dip.

    Turbo just get dyno tune, already been proven with right tuner. I just dont want to pay for installation.

  3. #13
    Gold Supporting Member TX-Ripper's Avatar
    Gold Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    The Great State of Texas
    Posts
    3,151
    Member #
    15721
    Liked
    1039 times
    Quote Originally Posted by WooBoost View Post
    I dont think theres any testing. The pump will allow me to run more boost on stock turbo bc fuel rail pressure should keep up and not dip.

    Turbo just get dyno tune, already been proven with right tuner. I just dont want to pay for installation.
    i agree about the turbos, not the hpfp.
    Don't drink the Kool-Aid

    Current: 2018 F150 5.0 4x4 Platinum Screw 3.31 Gears Whipple Supercharged 754rwhp 616rwtq : Remote Dyno Tuned with HPtuners by Palm Beach Dyno
    Sold: 2016 F150 3.5 Ecoboost Screw Platinum 3.55 Full-Race GT Turbos, Intercooler, Downpipes
    Link to my YouTube Channel - Dyno videos, Racing ect: https://shorturl.at/epIMY
    Link to my Build Thread: https://shorturl.at/cdqtE

  4. Remove Advertisements
    F150EcoBoost.net
    Advertisements
     

  5. #14
    Gold Supporting Member TX-Ripper's Avatar
    Gold Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    The Great State of Texas
    Posts
    3,151
    Member #
    15721
    Liked
    1039 times
    The 35 dips, the 60 dips.

    You need cams to fix that dip.
    Don't drink the Kool-Aid

    Current: 2018 F150 5.0 4x4 Platinum Screw 3.31 Gears Whipple Supercharged 754rwhp 616rwtq : Remote Dyno Tuned with HPtuners by Palm Beach Dyno
    Sold: 2016 F150 3.5 Ecoboost Screw Platinum 3.55 Full-Race GT Turbos, Intercooler, Downpipes
    Link to my YouTube Channel - Dyno videos, Racing ect: https://shorturl.at/epIMY
    Link to my Build Thread: https://shorturl.at/cdqtE

  6. #15
    Eco-Beast WooBoost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    4,194
    Member #
    6556
    Liked
    1208 times
    I havent seen proof yet. its not supposed to bc it flows more fuel. I have been waiting to see testing. They have done a lot more testing so i should call people.

  7. #16
    Ecoboost Pro Boostking's Avatar
    Gold Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    796
    Member #
    12619
    Liked
    885 times
    Quote Originally Posted by WooBoost View Post
    UWE on his page was only testing the 35% pump on stock tune last time I looked on e85. His claim was it will save owners money, however we know e85 gets far worse MPG. It's only benefit is using as race gas type aka more power, not DD.

    You're saying the 35% suffers down low like stock pump....on pump gas or e85?
    It suffers down low on E85. On pump I have not had any issues and it performs as needed however I usually get about 18psi on the hit. I havent ran it on my tune that makes 20+ on the hit, since I dont really like hitting 20+ anymore .

    I'll post some e85 logs I have with it. Up top it was able to do its job no problem, but down low there were large deviations in Actual HPFP vs Commanded HPFP. This was on corn.
    TX-Ripper and Gene 3.5TT like this.
    2013 Tuxedo Black SCrew Ecoboost FX4 w Appearance Package 5.5 box, 3.73. Mods: SCT LWTS+ custom tuned, Full-Race/BorgWarner OEM+ "GT Turbos", Tifosi Exhaust Manifolds, RTR HPFP, CP-E FMIC w/ TurboSmart SuperSonic, CP-E 3" Catted Downpipes, AFE Magnum Force Pro Dry-S Intake, Borla Touring Cat-Back, Terra G2s 305/55/20 on Method N/V 20x9, Leveled Bilstein 5100 RHA 1.5", 20" LED light bar, Hellwig Rear Sway Bar, Morimoto LED Fogs, Extang Revolution Tonneau Cover, Custom LED bed lighting, DeeZee Tailgate Assist, Tailgate Remote Power Lock Mod, MaxLiner Floor Mats, Ford OEM Underseat Cargo Box, LED Interior and Reverse Lights (Diode Dynamics), Recon LED 3rd Brake Light, NL Door Detents, .50 cal antenna, Custom Coding (ForScan)

  8. #17
    Eco-Beast WooBoost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    4,194
    Member #
    6556
    Liked
    1208 times
    on stock pump, I only run 16psi, after that fuel rail pressure dips at low rpm but makes it up, up top. At more boost, it make it ok up top, but has the dip down low obviously. So i only run 16. IN theory, if this 35 pump flows more fuel, i could run 19 or whatever without a dip.

  9. #18
    Ecoboost Pro Boostking's Avatar
    Gold Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    796
    Member #
    12619
    Liked
    885 times
    Its not only about the fact that it can "flow more fuel". The other problem is that down low the cam is not moving as fast and does not pump the HPFP fast enough to maintain PRESSURE. The FUEL is there, as evident by the fact that the air fuel ratio will still be good, but this is because the injectors will open up a lot when the fuel pressure dips (high pulsewidth). So basically when your HPFP "dips", its not able to maintain pressure commanded (2200 or so PSI) because its not being pump fast enough and the air mass entering the engine at that engine speed requires a lot of fuel to reach a proper air fuel. The injectors open up a lot to give you the fuel, but at a lower pressure.

    This is not ideal, because we want the high pressure for many reasons, suppress detonation, better homogenization of the mixture, cooling the chamber, etc. However at least the injectors can open up that much to get the fuel you need instead of going lean.

    This also depends a lot on what the WOT air fuel (lambda from here on out) being commanded is. Just leaning it out a little in the earlier RPM can help maintain better pressure down low. Many tunes try to go super rich too quickly and that changes a lot about how the HPFP can keep up.

    Also:
    I just recently put a "hot" tune on another 13-14 truck. Guy wanted a "kill tune". I've used this particular tune on my truck before I had the 35-HPFP, and it runs around 20 psi of boost and comes on strong down low. On my truck, I did not have a large deviation in HPFP pressure with the stock pump, however this truck couldnt take it.

    Speaking with a few colleagues, I found out that apparently there are a few revisions to the stock HPFP from our Gen 1 3.5 Eco's. One colleague has a pretty hot tune of his own he uses and does these trucks regularly and he said that out of ever 4 or 5 he does, one truck will have trouble with the stock HPFP keeping up, on the SAME tune. He thinks that there are some decent variances from stock pump to stock pump and based on his findings it seems to be true. Sounds like some trucks stock HPFP's are better than others from the factory. Maybe a tolerance or QC issue. Maybe its all BS. I do trust a lot of what he tells me though and he's not one to BS.
    TX-Ripper likes this.
    2013 Tuxedo Black SCrew Ecoboost FX4 w Appearance Package 5.5 box, 3.73. Mods: SCT LWTS+ custom tuned, Full-Race/BorgWarner OEM+ "GT Turbos", Tifosi Exhaust Manifolds, RTR HPFP, CP-E FMIC w/ TurboSmart SuperSonic, CP-E 3" Catted Downpipes, AFE Magnum Force Pro Dry-S Intake, Borla Touring Cat-Back, Terra G2s 305/55/20 on Method N/V 20x9, Leveled Bilstein 5100 RHA 1.5", 20" LED light bar, Hellwig Rear Sway Bar, Morimoto LED Fogs, Extang Revolution Tonneau Cover, Custom LED bed lighting, DeeZee Tailgate Assist, Tailgate Remote Power Lock Mod, MaxLiner Floor Mats, Ford OEM Underseat Cargo Box, LED Interior and Reverse Lights (Diode Dynamics), Recon LED 3rd Brake Light, NL Door Detents, .50 cal antenna, Custom Coding (ForScan)

  10. #19
    Eco-Beast WooBoost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    4,194
    Member #
    6556
    Liked
    1208 times
    So from what I gathered from you, the 35% pump will not help the dip and this is only fixed by tuning?

    I was under the impression b what explained to me that the flow is what causing the dip, since this flows better it can provide fuel better.

    Let me ask you this, would the dip cause lamda to not be met? If lamda is still being met WOT with the dip, this is still a "safe" situation or no?

  11. #20
    Gold Supporting Member TX-Ripper's Avatar
    Gold Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    The Great State of Texas
    Posts
    3,151
    Member #
    15721
    Liked
    1039 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Boostking View Post
    Its not only about the fact that it can "flow more fuel". The other problem is that down low the cam is not moving as fast and does not pump the HPFP fast enough to maintain PRESSURE. The FUEL is there, as evident by the fact that the air fuel ratio will still be good, but this is because the injectors will open up a lot when the fuel pressure dips (high pulsewidth). So basically when your HPFP "dips", its not able to maintain pressure commanded (2200 or so PSI) because its not being pump fast enough and the air mass entering the engine at that engine speed requires a lot of fuel to reach a proper air fuel. The injectors open up a lot to give you the fuel, but at a lower pressure.

    This is not ideal, because we want the high pressure for many reasons, suppress detonation, better homogenization of the mixture, cooling the chamber, etc. However at least the injectors can open up that much to get the fuel you need instead of going lean.

    This also depends a lot on what the WOT air fuel (lambda from here on out) being commanded is. Just leaning it out a little in the earlier RPM can help maintain better pressure down low. Many tunes try to go super rich too quickly and that changes a lot about how the HPFP can keep up.

    Also:
    I just recently put a "hot" tune on another 13-14 truck. Guy wanted a "kill tune". I've used this particular tune on my truck before I had the 35-HPFP, and it runs around 20 psi of boost and comes on strong down low. On my truck, I did not have a large deviation in HPFP pressure with the stock pump, however this truck couldnt take it.

    Speaking with a few colleagues, I found out that apparently there are a few revisions to the stock HPFP from our Gen 1 3.5 Eco's. One colleague has a pretty hot tune of his own he uses and does these trucks regularly and he said that out of ever 4 or 5 he does, one truck will have trouble with the stock HPFP keeping up, on the SAME tune. He thinks that there are some decent variances from stock pump to stock pump and based on his findings it seems to be true. Sounds like some trucks stock HPFP's are better than others from the factory. Maybe a tolerance or QC issue. Maybe its all BS. I do trust a lot of what he tells me though and he's not one to BS.
    Funny how commanding a reasonable .820 instead of .780 can help extend the range of the stock hpfp to the limits of the stock turbos...

    total side note: if someone was runing a stock hpfp that seemed "weak", you could buy a brand new stock HPFP for cheap and see where that takes you before spending $1800 on one of these.
    Boostking likes this.
    Don't drink the Kool-Aid

    Current: 2018 F150 5.0 4x4 Platinum Screw 3.31 Gears Whipple Supercharged 754rwhp 616rwtq : Remote Dyno Tuned with HPtuners by Palm Beach Dyno
    Sold: 2016 F150 3.5 Ecoboost Screw Platinum 3.55 Full-Race GT Turbos, Intercooler, Downpipes
    Link to my YouTube Channel - Dyno videos, Racing ect: https://shorturl.at/epIMY
    Link to my Build Thread: https://shorturl.at/cdqtE

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-23-2017, 01:19 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-13-2016, 03:53 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-31-2015, 09:31 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-13-2014, 10:26 AM
  5. Replies: 42
    Last Post: 08-29-2014, 04:33 PM
Connect with us: F150 Ecoboost Forum on Twitter F150 Ecoboost Forum on Facebook F150 Ecoboost Forum RSS Feed
Find us on Google+