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Thinking about picking up a 2nd gen ecoboost with a 10 spd. (10spd seems worth it?) I've been considering a Tundra, but at the end of the day, crash test ratings are sealing the deal on the Ford. And I think forced induction V6s are the future. I'm not opposed to picking up a 2.7, I'm not towing [massive campers] all the time, and it sounds like the 2.7 may just be a better engine, just about as snappy as the 3.5.

I'd run slightly larger tires (up to 33s) with an intake and tune. I'll load up with the family and camping gear and/or haul a raft on a trailer (currently, I'd have to try pretty hard to ever tow over 2K lbs, including trailer weight). With a truck, would probably come a camper, so something around 5-6K lbs might be in the future. So far so good. Here's the kicker: I live at 7500' in elevation in SW CO, and I'd be hauling all of that at higher elevations and over 10K' passes (along with some ~12K' high country jaunts). Between that and the larger tires, am I going to want the 3.5? I came into my search thinking the 3.5 was mandatory, but I've been hearing and seeing a lot of good things about the 2.7, and I acknowledge I don't tow -much- that often. But I also don't want to feel like a pig passing slow RVs on mountain grades and high desert highways.
 

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If by 5-6K lbs you mean a camper no larger than 6000 pounds GVWR, I'd like to say the 2.7 is for you, IF not too much cargo in the bed of the truck and not 4 200 pound adults in the cab. If you are thinking of buying new, you might not want to void the warranty with add-ons and mods. I am not sure if more elevation is gonna affect one engine more than the other. I doubt it.
 
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Best Bargain in all of the truck world is the :

F150 XLT 302A 2.7

It's just so much truck and for whatever reason is heavily discounted. You'll pinch yourself every time you get in it. And if you spring for just a small amount more, you get it in "Sport Trim" and it's beautiful!

Note: This is coming from a fella who is currently driving an F150 at TWICE the price of that truck above. And as much as I love this fully loaded 3.5, there's 2 trucks in the family fleet that match the description I'm suggesting. They are amazing value equations on wheels.

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The turbos on my 2014 3.5 are maxed out at my house at 6500’ here in UT. Basically the stock tune will flow 36 lbs/min in the right weather, and so will my aftermarket tunes, because the turbos are at their flow limits. The craziest tune I have, pushes my turbos very hard, might squeeze 1-2 extra lbs of flow over the stock tune.

The 2018+ 2nd gen 3.5’s should have no issue maintaining power at altitude. The turbos are huge and should have no trouble maintaining at least stock power(375 hp) and probably a little more than stock at even 10-12k’. 2017’s, even though the are also a 2nd gen 3.5, had smaller turbos and would perform closer to my truck.

The 2018+ 2.7 has smaller turbos than my 2014. They would be maxed out at stock power(325 hp) at your house at 7500’. At 11,000’ they would be below stock power, somewhere in the 28-29 lb/min range so probably 280 hp.

Im not saying that the 2.7 wont do the job it will, but there will be a massive power difference between a 2018+ 3.5 and 2018+ 2.7 at those elevations. Like over 100 hp if both are tuned.
 
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Just to put numbers to what I said:

2014 Stock turbo: 46 lbs/min
2018+ 2.7 Turbo: 41.5 lb/min
2018+ 3.5 Turbo: 60.4 lb/min

These numbers are straight from the turbo overspeed maps in HPTuners.

So at 6500' your ambient air pressure is 80% that of sea level so the turbo's flow capability drops 20%

2014 Stock turbo: 36.8 lbs/min
2018+ 2.7 Turbo: 33.2 lb/min
2018+ 3.5 Turbo: 48.3 lb/min

At 11,000' your ambient air pressure is 70% of sea level so the turbo's flow capability drops 30%:

2014 Stock turbo: 32.2 lbs/min
2018+ 2.7 Turbo: 29.0 lb/min
2018+ 3.5 Turbo: 42.3 lb/min

If you multiply the lb/min by 10, that gives you roughly the crank HP the engine can produce. So at 11,000, a 2018 2.7 would be limited to 29 lb/min or 290hp and a 2018 3.5 42.3 lb/min or 420 hp.

You don't NEED 420 hp to tow a trailer. But its just that much more overhead if you need passing power or anything like that.

The 2.7 is a fantastic motor. I really do think its the best overall half ton motor out there. But your towing conditions and situation is pretty unique and more extreme than probably 99.9% of the other folks out there.

My only other comment is that the Tundra would also make 265 hp at 11,000 ft. So if you were good with that then the 2.7 should still perform better.
 

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I do not live at that elevation, but I have towed my small trailer (~3500lbs) plus 5 folks and a bed full of luggage with 5 bikes strapped across the bed rails through SW Colorado (Mesa Verde and Durango). I have also traveled up through Montana, the Sierra Nevadas, etc, with no issues. Some of this being done in the snow. Average 12-14 mpg while doing all of this.

I have a '15 with 3.5 Screw Lariat FX4
 

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I would I would suggest that you size your power needs in accordance with where you spend your driving 75% of the time. If you spend 75% of your time climbing up over on 11th foot thousand foot pass then you want a really big motor. On the other hand if it's occasional no biggie just stop once or twice on the way up let the dog go pee walk around a little bit and then continue on. Are you in Cortez? I love it up around that part of Colorado. I drove my old 2003 35 foot motorhome pulling a trailer with two motorcycles in it up over Wolf Creek Pass. I don't think I ever went over 20 miles an hour on the way up and probably not that fast on the way down. I had no trouble. And I was really heavy I'm sure I was overweight. He just got to expect that when you're really heavy or you're really climbing but you're not going to be running the Indy 500 type speeds. I have no experience towing anything heavier than a two rail motorcycle trailer so far. With my 2013 5.0 or my New 3.5
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks fellers! You all kind of confirmed what I suspected, that it was appropriate to be on the fence, and it would come down to I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It wasn't that I felt the need to overcompensate with the 3.5, because I'm truly not hauling that much right now. But I'd want the power when I need it- especially if I'm paying around $30K for a truck, I wouldn't want to be left wanting....

Is the 10spd worth it? In my current 6spd, it hunts for gears around here. I really don't want to spend over $30K, but if I get that much more truck for another g or two...

Best Bargain in all of the truck world is the :

F150 XLT 302A 2.7

It's just so much truck and for whatever reason is heavily discounted. You'll pinch yourself every time you get in it. And if you spring for just a small amount more, you get it in "Sport Trim" and it's beautiful!

Note: This is coming from a fella who is currently driving an F150 at TWICE the price of that truck above. And as much as I love this fully loaded 3.5, there's 2 trucks in the family fleet that match the description I'm suggesting. They are amazing value equations on wheels.

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Thanks for identifying that package. My wife has made it clear seat warmers are mandatory. I wouldn't mind saving a few bucks with the 2.7, but it sounds like I should go with the 3.5.

The turbos on my 2014 3.5 are maxed out at my house at 6500’ here in UT. Basically the stock tune will flow 36 lbs/min in the right weather, and so will my aftermarket tunes, because the turbos are at their flow limits. The craziest tune I have, pushes my turbos very hard, might squeeze 1-2 extra lbs of flow over the stock tune.

The 2018+ 2nd gen 3.5’s should have no issue maintaining power at altitude. The turbos are huge and should have no trouble maintaining at least stock power(375 hp) and probably a little more than stock at even 10-12k’. 2017’s, even though the are also a 2nd gen 3.5, had smaller turbos and would perform closer to my truck.

The 2018+ 2.7 has smaller turbos than my 2014. They would be maxed out at stock power(325 hp) at your house at 7500’. At 11,000’ they would be below stock power, somewhere in the 28-29 lb/min range so probably 280 hp.

Im not saying that the 2.7 wont do the job it will, but there will be a massive power difference between a 2018+ 3.5 and 2018+ 2.7 at those elevations. Like over 100 hp if both are tuned.
Yeah, I think I'm committed to the g2 3.5s. My understanding is that they became much more reliable, and a lot of the issues were corrected on them? Tunes seem pretty popular for this engine. I don't mind spending a few hundred bucks for a few extra ponies, but don't need to max things out to the point of long term wear. I tend to sit on vehicles for a while.

I would I would suggest that you size your power needs in accordance with where you spend your driving 75% of the time. If you spend 75% of your time climbing up over on 11th foot thousand foot pass then you want a really big motor. On the other hand if it's occasional no biggie just stop once or twice on the way up let the dog go pee walk around a little bit and then continue on. Are you in Cortez? I love it up around that part of Colorado. I drove my old 2003 35 foot motorhome pulling a trailer with two motorcycles in it up over Wolf Creek Pass. I don't think I ever went over 20 miles an hour on the way up and probably not that fast on the way down. I had no trouble. And I was really heavy I'm sure I was overweight. He just got to expect that when you're really heavy or you're really climbing but you're not going to be running the Indy 500 type speeds. I have no experience towing anything heavier than a two rail motorcycle trailer so far. With my 2013 5.0 or my New 3.5
I'm right outside of Durango. Elevation in DGO is 6500, and climbs to 7500 over the course of 5 or 6 miles to where I live, so I drive a grade every time I go into town. There are two 10K' passes between me and Silverton, and camping in the high country is usually around 9-11K' in elevation. In normal years, when I've done big rafting trips, we may double or triple stack boats and haul individual's gear and group gear. Lot's of ups and downs to get to the rivers out here, and even more so when you head out on week long+ expeditions out of state.
I've experienced first hand what it's like to pull a camper too big for a truck [across the country] and counting pounds of cargo in my old jeep cherokee- I don't want to be in either of those positions again. I don't want to have to concern myself if I have the capacity to haul it.

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If you were considering a Turdra I'd go with the 2.7. TURBO engines don't lose power at elevation like naturally aspirated engines.

The 2.7's longevity factor being better than the 3.5 would steer me in that direction.

(there have been plenty of issues with timing/ vct phasers on the 2nd Gen 3.5s too)

Haven't heard of any timing issues on the 2.7.
 
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Agree’d. The timing chain stretch issue was primarily the issue with the Gen 1 3.5. The Gen 2 swapped a single giant chain for two smaller ones, however, they messed up the cam phaser design. So they traded one issue for another.

It seems like maybe they have figured the cam phasers, but if you buy used its possible you wont get the updated ones.

The 2.7 definitely seems to be the more bulletproof of the two. I don't see many issues pop up.
 
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Just to put numbers to what I said:

2014 Stock turbo: 46 lbs/min
2018+ 2.7 Turbo: 41.5 lb/min
2018+ 3.5 Turbo: 60.4 lb/min

These numbers are straight from the turbo overspeed maps in HPTuners.

So at 6500' your ambient air pressure is 80% that of sea level so the turbo's flow capability drops 20%

2014 Stock turbo: 36.8 lbs/min
2018+ 2.7 Turbo: 33.2 lb/min
2018+ 3.5 Turbo: 48.3 lb/min

At 11,000' your ambient air pressure is 70% of sea level so the turbo's flow capability drops 30%:

2014 Stock turbo: 32.2 lbs/min
2018+ 2.7 Turbo: 29.0 lb/min
2018+ 3.5 Turbo: 42.3 lb/min

If you multiply the lb/min by 10, that gives you roughly the crank HP the engine can produce. So at 11,000, a 2018 2.7 would be limited to 29 lb/min or 290hp and a 2018 3.5 42.3 lb/min or 420 hp.

You don't NEED 420 hp to tow a trailer. But its just that much more overhead if you need passing power or anything like that.

The 2.7 is a fantastic motor. I really do think its the best overall half ton motor out there. But your towing conditions and situation is pretty unique and more extreme than probably 99.9% of the other folks out there.

My only other comment is that the Tundra would also make 265 hp at 11,000 ft. So if you were good with that then the 2.7 should still perform better.
With 2018+ turbos at 3500ft, I see 52-54#/min at around 20-21psi depending on ambient temp and Baro pressure.

But I’m not sure if my other mods and/or VE settings have any impact on those numbers.


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With 2018+ turbos at 3500ft, I see 52-54#/min at around 20-21psi depending on ambient temp and Baro pressure.

But I’m not sure if my other mods and/or VE settings have any impact on those numbers.


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That sounds about right. I think I calculated 54-55 lbs when I was doing the math in that "truck not holding boost" thread in performance section for looqw
 

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forget about the crash test, these vehicles aren't meant to crash, In my opinion I would go with the tundra, I have bought 4 new F150's, 07, 10, 14, 18 and each one got a little worse as far as reliability and just pure out driving, there will not be another one in y driveway
Wut?
 

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He's back

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forget about the crash test, these vehicles aren't meant to crash, In my opinion I would go with the tundra, I have bought 4 new F150's, 07, 10, 14, 18 and each one got a little worse as far as reliability and just pure out driving, there will not be another one in y driveway
What are you doing to these trucks ?
 

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Cake, I’m also here in Dgo @ 7000’. Have a 2014 3.5 bought new w/ the Max tow pkg.
At 88,000 on the odometer now and no issues at all. Max tow comes w/ a deeper rear ratio. Even so I ave. 20mpg hwy & 17+ around town. My tow scene is mostly under 5k and have to remind myself something is behind me. Some of the computer control safety features are not well thought out. Ex. Winter snow, backing up rear tire will spin when no load in the bed. That causes the front antilock to kick in and out. Your going nowhere until you turn on the locking dif. or engage 4 wheel. As my driveway makes pulling in and backing out the norm, it is a daily event.
 

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30K for a F150 XLT 302A package? That is a bargain. I bought a 2016 XLT 302A, 2.7, long box, Heavy-Duty Payload Package(3.73 locker) for 38K and I thought this was a bargain. I can't buy this same configuration today. Have to buy the 3.5 to get the trim package and HDPP. I am getting around 26mpg hiway and 22mpg over the 50K I have put on the truck.
 

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30K for a F150 XLT 302A package? That is a bargain. I bought a 2016 XLT 302A, 2.7, long box, Heavy-Duty Payload Package(3.73 locker) for 38K and I thought this was a bargain. I can't buy this same configuration today. Have to buy the 3.5 to get the trim package and HDPP. I am getting around 26mpg hiway and 22mpg over the 50K I have put on the truck.
There was never HDPP for the 2.7. It was the 2.7 payload package you got.
 
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forget about the crash test, these vehicles aren't meant to crash, In my opinion I would go with the tundra, I have bought 4 new F150's, 07, 10, 14, 18 and each one got a little worse as far as reliability and just pure out driving, there will not be another one in y driveway
TROLL ALERT!

All his recent posts are just random negative comments about the F150, that have no bearing to the actual the thread he is replying.
 

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TROLL ALERT!

All his recent posts are just random negative comments about the F150, that have no bearing to the actual the thread he is replying.
It's been that way for a while. He shows, then goes, and eventually returns. Way back he suffered the "wandering epas" malady and it really soured him.

If I hadn't seen it happen to someone else on the RV forums, I might have thought he was misdiagnosing the problem, but it was eerily the same story. Fortunately the other fella finally got a solution with a firmware update of some kind. At least that was the happy ending. But his saga was indeed a bizarre one and so rare that the dealerships tried everything to get it to behave normal.

Still, yea, this fella just shows up for one reason. It's a Ford protest. Period

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