F150 Ecoboost Forum banner

201 - 220 of 239 Posts

·
Premium Member
2012 f150 3.5 platinum 4x4
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter · #202 ·
Just my opinion, but one thing you will miss out on if you try to get dual OEM HPFP's to work, is pressure. I'm seeing a huge benefit on timing and being able to push the stock injectors farther with the XDI pump. I'm basically spraying at a 1000 more PSI than the stock HPFP could ever dream of.

I'm on e30 (current tank is 35% according to my gauge). At 21psi, I'm seeing 18.5, ramping up to 20.5* of timing on a locked 3rd gear pull. My fuel rail Pressure starts around 2000psi and tops at 3300psi.
You have been you of the fellas I have intended to speak with when I get to that point.
From what I have read on here and what Grim has mentioned you have done quite abit and gone far with this platform.

Which xdi, is that the 35, or 60. ?Excuse me if I mislabeled them I am juggling a few thoughts at the moment.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,089 Posts
You have been you of the fellas I have intended to speak with when I get to that point.
From what I have read on here and what Grim has mentioned you have done quite abit and gone far with this platform.

Which xdi, is that the 35, or 60. ?Excuse me if I mislabeled them I am juggling a few thoughts at the moment.
You're on the right track if you are chasing Gen1 moding. In my opinion he's got one of the most sorted trucks, especially if you aren't wanting to narrow the focus of the mission. In other words, that truck isn't an all out street truck, nor is it an all out off road truck. (no extreme lowering or raising, if you know what I mean)

Instead, to me it's as versatile as the oem truck was intended to be. Only its better at all of it, in almost every aspect. But there's a LOT there, if you are paying attention. Tons of detail.



Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,930 Posts
You have been you of the fellas I have intended to speak with when I get to that point.
From what I have read on here and what Grim has mentioned you have done quite abit and gone far with this platform.

Which xdi, is that the 35, or 60. ?Excuse me if I mislabeled them I am juggling a few thoughts at the moment.
Feel free to shoot me a DM if you’re looking for some info.

The 35% pump can do 2900ish psi and the 60% pump is capable of 3600ish psi. I’m only pushing the 60% to around 3300psi.

My mod list is in my build thread “slowly making progress”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,930 Posts
You're on the right track if you are chasing Gen1 moding. In my opinion he's got one of the most sorted trucks, especially if you aren't wanting to narrow the focus of the mission. In other words, that truck isn't an all out street truck, nor is it an all out off road truck. (no extreme lowering or raising, if you know what I mean)

Instead, to me it's as versatile as the oem truck was intended to be. Only its better at all of it, in almost every aspect. But there's a LOT there, if you are paying attention. Tons of detail.



Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Thanks Bruce!

It’s certainly not the fastest out there, but I do think it’s well rounded for lots of fun.

It’s not too slow though, I surprised a Porsche turbo (‘07 vintage)Twice this afternoon. He couldn’t catch me from a dig to before we had to lift at 70.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
2012 f150 3.5 platinum 4x4
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter · #206 ·
That was on 93. Im wondering if I could do a e15 or e10 but its to late in the season now and I wanna hit the track the next two fridays so I really cant risk being stuck with a tank of fuel that i cant use. I currently need to burn off this half tank or at least a 1/4 tank so i can get some 94 back in and go back to the 94 tune otherwise ill be a pit crew/ camera man this friday for @Blown F-150 ; and @looqw ; haha

I think im gonna try to get my 12 on 93 and then revisit ethanol next year. I can say though torrie has got the truck pushing some really good power and im really happy that it can stay within the same 10’th hot lapping it.

Ill dyno the truck not this weekend but next and see where it sits power wise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're on the right track if you are chasing Gen1 moding. In my opinion he's got one of the most sorted trucks, especially if you aren't wanting to narrow the focus of the mission. In other words, that truck isn't an all out street truck, nor is it an all out off road truck. (no extreme lowering or raising, if you know what I mean)

Instead, to me it's as versatile as the oem truck was intended to be. Only its better at all of it, in almost every aspect. But there's a LOT there, if you are paying attention. Tons of detail.



Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Sounds he is/has been building in the same direction I am heading.
Not race/drag truck not an all out off road monster, some where in between. Plus it gives me something to do when Im not working. 😆
Appreciate all the input you fellas add.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,474 Posts
Well, after finally installing both the Walbro 450 in my LPFP Assembly and my XDI-35 HPFP, I can now tell what my experience is, and what each actually helps.

Installing the Walbro 450 in my LPFP Assembly, it did fix my fueling at higher rpms. Previously, past 5,600 my engine would 'stumble' due to lack of fuel. Installing the LFPF fixed this. No more 'stumble' at high rpms.

However, it didn't fix the "dip" when "upshifting" and at the start of the next gear. The XDI-35 fixed that. No more dip, and my actual Fuel Rail Pressure matches my commanded.

The only thing funny, was my datalogs (as I am forced to only use the PIDs available on my PCM). I went into my datalogs and inserted a column after both the Actual Fuel Rail Pressure (called Fuel Rear Pressure) and my Commanded that converted them from Mpa to PSI. I then hid the Mpa column and reviewed the CSV file and the PSI in Livelink. I just found Mpa confusing and find PSI much easier to understand. Especially when my Livewire displays both in PSI.

At first I thought I still had a problem, until I noticed the "scaling" between the two columns were wrong. When Actual PSI was at 2400 PSI, it wasn't touching the Commanded (which was also 2400). I initially thought I wasn't hitting 2400 psi. Then I realized the two were using different scales. So while the Commanded line looked higher than my Actual, they both had the same value when you checked. And when I first booted it, my actual hit 2700 PSI momentarity (which was 2400 on the Commanded Line. So all was good and the XDI-35 definitely cured the dips and providing enough fuel now.

I also did the test with approximately E45 (the place I get E85 is actually E65). So I filled up my tank with pure E65 to have an E45 mixture in my Tank. When I checked a datalog, all worked good. I was initially concerned that my XDI-35 couldn't handle higher E mixtures and maybe should have gone with an XDI-60. Now I am confident to even try pure E85 (if it was readily available).

And even just running E20, adds enough ethanol to FINALLY make our fake 94 Octane to be an actual 95+Octane. Cures all knock retard in WOT now.

I just hope they eventually put an E85 station in my town. Even if it was only actually E65, I would run pure E65 (and get retuned).


Just have to get around to getting those manifolds installed with my GT Turbos. Along with a Eaton Detroit TrueTrac 913A477. I have been wondering if it were possible to "update" the GTs with bigger wheels?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,885 Posts
Well, after finally installing both the Walbro 450 in my LPFP Assembly and my XDI-35 HPFP, I can now tell what my experience is, and what each actually helps.

Installing the Walbro 450 in my LPFP Assembly, it did fix my fueling at higher rpms. Previously, past 5,600 my engine would 'stumble' due to lack of fuel. Installing the LFPF fixed this. No more 'stumble' at high rpms.

However, it didn't fix the "dip" when "upshifting" and at the start of the next gear. The XDI-35 fixed that. No more dip, and my actual Fuel Rail Pressure matches my commanded.

The only thing funny, was my datalogs (as I am forced to only use the PIDs available on my PCM). I went into my datalogs and inserted a column after both the Actual Fuel Rail Pressure (called Fuel Rear Pressure) and my Commanded that converted them from Mpa to PSI. I then hid the Mpa column and reviewed the CSV file and the PSI in Livelink. I just found Mpa confusing and find PSI much easier to understand. Especially when my Livewire displays both in PSI.

At first I thought I still had a problem, until I noticed the "scaling" between the two columns were wrong. When Actual PSI was at 2400 PSI, it wasn't touching the Commanded (which was also 2400). I initially thought I wasn't hitting 2400 psi. Then I realized the two were using different scales. So while the Commanded line looked higher than my Actual, they both had the same value when you checked. And when I first booted it, my actual hit 2700 PSI momentarity (which was 2400 on the Commanded Line. So all was good and the XDI-35 definitely cured the dips and providing enough fuel now.

I also did the test with approximately E45 (the place I get E85 is actually E65). So I filled up my tank with pure E65 to have an E45 mixture in my Tank. When I checked a datalog, all worked good. I was initially concerned that my XDI-35 couldn't handle higher E mixtures and maybe should have gone with an XDI-60. Now I am confident to even try pure E85 (if it was readily available).

And even just running E20, adds enough ethanol to FINALLY make our fake 94 Octane to be an actual 95+Octane. Cures all knock retard in WOT now.

I just hope they eventually put an E85 station in my town. Even if it was only actually E65, I would run pure E65 (and get retuned).


Just have to get around to getting those manifolds installed with my GT Turbos. Along with a Eaton Detroit TrueTrac 913A477. I have been wondering if it were possible to "update" the GTs with bigger wheels?
Bigger compressor only or compressor and turbine?
 
  • Like
Reactions: looqw

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,930 Posts
Well, after finally installing both the Walbro 450 in my LPFP Assembly and my XDI-35 HPFP, I can now tell what my experience is, and what each actually helps.

Installing the Walbro 450 in my LPFP Assembly, it did fix my fueling at higher rpms. Previously, past 5,600 my engine would 'stumble' due to lack of fuel. Installing the LFPF fixed this. No more 'stumble' at high rpms.

However, it didn't fix the "dip" when "upshifting" and at the start of the next gear. The XDI-35 fixed that. No more dip, and my actual Fuel Rail Pressure matches my commanded.

The only thing funny, was my datalogs (as I am forced to only use the PIDs available on my PCM). I went into my datalogs and inserted a column after both the Actual Fuel Rail Pressure (called Fuel Rear Pressure) and my Commanded that converted them from Mpa to PSI. I then hid the Mpa column and reviewed the CSV file and the PSI in Livelink. I just found Mpa confusing and find PSI much easier to understand. Especially when my Livewire displays both in PSI.

At first I thought I still had a problem, until I noticed the "scaling" between the two columns were wrong. When Actual PSI was at 2400 PSI, it wasn't touching the Commanded (which was also 2400). I initially thought I wasn't hitting 2400 psi. Then I realized the two were using different scales. So while the Commanded line looked higher than my Actual, they both had the same value when you checked. And when I first booted it, my actual hit 2700 PSI momentarity (which was 2400 on the Commanded Line. So all was good and the XDI-35 definitely cured the dips and providing enough fuel now.

I also did the test with approximately E45 (the place I get E85 is actually E65). So I filled up my tank with pure E65 to have an E45 mixture in my Tank. When I checked a datalog, all worked good. I was initially concerned that my XDI-35 couldn't handle higher E mixtures and maybe should have gone with an XDI-60. Now I am confident to even try pure E85 (if it was readily available).

And even just running E20, adds enough ethanol to FINALLY make our fake 94 Octane to be an actual 95+Octane. Cures all knock retard in WOT now.

I just hope they eventually put an E85 station in my town. Even if it was only actually E65, I would run pure E65 (and get retuned).


Just have to get around to getting those manifolds installed with my GT Turbos. Along with a Eaton Detroit TrueTrac 913A477. I have been wondering if it were possible to "update" the GTs with bigger wheels?
Just my $0.02 but I'm not sure why you would go bigger than the GT's on a stock motor in your location. @Mikey_Ltd hit 509whp with them and meth.

You just have to come for a drive and we will get your other go-fast parts in the truck.
 

·
Registered
2013 Platinum
Joined
·
334 Posts
Just my $0.02 but I'm not sure why you would go bigger than the GT's on a stock motor in your location. @Mikey_Ltd hit 509whp with them and meth.

You just have to come for a drive and we will get your other go-fast parts in the truck.
You saying he should come out here and we can help him quickly do the install?! haha with a few of us should only be a few hours!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
I haven’t really updated anyone but heres my rail pressure on over 500rwhp and over 600rwtrq. This pull is from a 20 roll in first letting out just after it shifts into 4’th gear with only my lpfp setup and and a factory hpfp. We’re at the point now where injectors and a pump is needed as it wouldn’t be beneficial for me to justify the cost of just a hpfp because I wouldn’t see much gain. Fuel rail pressure is solid. Im on borg warner gt turbos and oem ported manifolds, Keep in mind my lpfp setup can put out enough flow for 900 crank hp on e85 so my hpfp is getting more supply then it will ever need.
I beleive given the cost of the hpfp vs lpfp I would do a properly setup lpfp for cost and performance wise with the upgraded turbos.
I will dyno again on my new tune and in the spring finish off my other tune.
My meth the way it is setup is allowing for a degree or two of timing to be added besides that just cooling



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,078 Posts
I haven’t really updated anyone but heres my rail pressure on over 500rwhp and over 600rwtrq. This pull is from a 20 roll in first letting out just after it shifts into 4’th gear with only my lpfp setup and and a factory hpfp. We’re at the point now where injectors and a pump is needed as it wouldn’t be beneficial for me to justify the cost of just a hpfp because I wouldn’t see much gain. Fuel rail pressure is solid. Im on borg warner gt turbos and oem ported manifolds, Keep in mind my lpfp setup can put out enough flow for 900 crank hp on e85 so my hpfp is getting more supply then it will ever need.
I beleive given the cost of the hpfp vs lpfp I would do a properly setup lpfp for cost and performance wise with the upgraded turbos.
I will dyno again on my new tune and in the spring finish off my other tune.
My meth the way it is setup is allowing for a degree or two of timing to be added besides that just cooling

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Do you have rail pressure in relation to rpm? The issue is the low end hit "dip" primarily. If this is controlled via parameters, it is ok but in this situation The HPFP cannot keep up because it needs rpm to compress, this does not matter how much fuel it is being supplied. A HPFP can remedy that some because it flows more fuel, which will allow power sooner.

edit- and then if running ethanol, the pump struggles too.

I will be testing ethanol soon!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,474 Posts
Do you have rail pressure in relation to rpm? The issue is the low end hit "dip" primarily. If this is controlled via parameters, it is ok but in this situation The HPFP cannot keep up because it needs rpm to compress, this does not matter how much fuel it is being supplied. A HPFP can remedy that some because it flows more fuel, which will allow power sooner.

edit- and then if running ethanol, the pump struggles too.

I will be testing ethanol soon!
That is exactly my experience too.

However, it is my understanding from @Blown F-150 , Mikey's LPFP is different than what my Modified LPFP w/ Walbro 450. Mikey's LPFP has a higher Fuel Pressure regulator. Unfortunately, the graph Mickey put is hard to see as he has so many unimportant PIDs displaying.

I agree with @WooBoost that you need to monitor Fuel Rail Pressure (Actual & Commanded) and RPMs. That is when you can see if there are any dips on the upshift (indicating insufficient actual FRP).

And if you "highlight" both Actual and Commanded separately, you can then see if they are on different 'scales', like mine is).

On the Weekend, I will try to post two graphs showing the different scales on each PID (actual and commanded).

Also @Mikey_Ltd, I believe your "Fuel Rail Pressure" DMR you are showing is not the actual Fuel Rail Pressure, it's the Commanded. That's the old CONFIG (for 2011-2014 that haven't had the recent PCM Update for brake recall) and it has display errors I noticed (from SCT). I was looking at older Datalogs before I was "updated", and the DMRs and PIDs for Fuel related items worked differently than the PIDs for the new Configs for vehicles with the Brake Recall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
That is exactly my experience too.

However, it is my understanding from @Blown F-150 , Mikey's LPFP is different than what my Modified LPFP w/ Walbro 450. Mikey's LPFP has a higher Fuel Pressure regulator. Unfortunately, the graph Mickey put is hard to see as he has so many unimportant PIDs displaying.

I agree with @WooBoost that you need to monitor Fuel Rail Pressure (Actual & Commanded) and RPMs. That is when you can see if there are any dips on the upshift (indicating insufficient actual FRP).

And if you "highlight" both Actual and Commanded separately, you can then see if they are on different 'scales', like mine is).

On the Weekend, I will try to post two graphs showing the different scales on each PID (actual and commanded).

Also @Mikey_Ltd, I believe your "Fuel Rail Pressure" DMR you are showing is not the actual Fuel Rail Pressure, it's the Commanded. That's the old CONFIG (for 2011-2014 that haven't had the recent PCM Update for brake recall) and it has display errors I noticed (from SCT). I was looking at older Datalogs before I was "updated", and the DMRs and PIDs for Fuel related items worked differently than the PIDs for the new Configs for vehicles with the Brake Recall.
It fluctuates with demand and shifting. I cant tell you that I couldn’t do e30 because I did not have enough hpfp to do it. Same log in both pictures rpm over rail pressure


E30ish might have been a touch over was a no go rail pressure dropped. This was a 20-60 log felt great but wasn’t able to use it so i enjoyed a half week of driving like a grandma to get it low enough to correct it for the track that Friday



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,474 Posts
@Mikey_Ltd when I get a chance this weekend, I will see if I can find you the correct PIDs to monitor on the older configs.

I am 99% sure the older CONFIG DMR you are using is showing commanded, not actual. I discovered this when I was reviewing old logs recently to see the effects of my new HPFP. There is a different PID you need with the older CONFIG.

The Commanded is usually a fairly flat line, like you are showing. The Actual has a ton of fluctuations every second and is not a flat or straight line like you are showing. The PSI is constantly changing almost every second.

SCT has a lot of "errors" in their labeling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mikey_Ltd

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
@Mikey_Ltd when I get a chance this weekend, I will see if I can find you the correct PIDs to monitor on the older configs.

I am 99% sure the older CONFIG DMR you are using is showing commanded, not actual. There is a different PID you need with the older CONFIG.
Why is my rail pressure pressure dropping that low if thats commanded shouldn’t it just stay stable?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,930 Posts
I just had a quick look. I'm monitoring two DMR's. One is Fuel Rail Pressure Actual and the other is Fuel Rail Pressure Desired. I'm not sure what the parameters are around the DMR Mikey is monitoring. It doesn't follow the same fluctuation I'm seeing though wit my "Actual" DMR.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,885 Posts
Are there any options to go bigger than the 52mm turbine?
Not that I know of. But CRP has bigger compressors than the GT's so I wasn't sure why you would upgrade the GT's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blown F-150

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
I just had a quick look. I'm monitoring two DMR's. One is Fuel Rail Pressure Actual and the other is Fuel Rail Pressure Desired. I'm not sure what the parameters are around the DMR Mikey is monitoring. It doesn't follow the same fluctuation I'm seeing though wit my "Actual" DMR.
Ill add this one. I really need to figure out how to add it to a log file so I don’t have to keep making new log files each time i want to add something


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
201 - 220 of 239 Posts
Top