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2012 f150 3.5 platinum 4x4
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Any of you 1st gen guy run an e65 tune on a dual upgraded pump & meth / stock turbo setup?
Edit.
Just had Torrie from unleashed send over the new tune.

<<<<e70>>>>>>

It's already programmed in( this morning.)

I put a fresh oily changer in er' afterwards..
Currently only doing Baseline driving with 20-30% throttle input, yet it feels great.
I've gone up to 45% ish throttle ( pourfect!!)
Everything is staying within parameter.
But we are currently running off the same timing map as my previous fully revised e30 tune.
Gonna be fun!!
 

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I am able to run E65 due to the modifications I made to my fueling system. But I am still running an E25 tune.

I typically run about E40 as I have to buy and store in Gerry Cans ... and there limits on how much fuel I can transport in Gerry Cans in the back of my bed. But there is a station that is currently trying to pass on the Enviro Legals and hopefully have an E65 station where I live in the next 18 months.
 

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I am able to run E65 due to the modifications I made to my fueling system. But I am still running an E25 tune.

I typically run about E40 as I have to buy and store in Gerry Cans ... and there limits on how much fuel I can transport in Gerry Cans in the back of my bed. But there is a station that is currently trying to pass on the Enviro Legals and hopefully have an E65 station where I live in the next 18 months.
Is there much benefit beyond E40 on a gen 1? Even with a set of GT's or Garret Powermax turbos, we still have a lower power potential than a stock 2018+ Gen 2.
 

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2012 f150 3.5 platinum 4x4
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Is there much benefit beyond E40 on a gen 1? Even with a set of GT's or Garret Powermax turbos, we still have a lower power potential than a stock 2018+ Gen 2.

Yes!!
Asssss long as your motor isnt already previously injured.


I have beem fighting this super strange low load, low rpm low throttle input no boost + knock that would randomly run up to +5 or so knock.

But as soon as you start to give er" some beans it'll go negative. ( the area everyone has issues with is the atea that i go -4 or more knock to get my oar back up.

Anyways, been chasimg that, and jus recently noticed a very suble ta ta ta sound (ONLY, between 1100 and 1800 rpm. Started putting 2 and 2 together, but because it wasnt increasing with rpm, i suspected it had something to do with the vct.


Weellll.
50% throttle pull and my block turned into a framer and built it self a nice little window next to cyl.#1!
Flipped the piston upside down and had the small end of the connecting rod handing out on top!.

It was a super strong pull, felt stronger @ 1/2 trottle than my fully revised e30 did @ wot.

And i just so happened to be recording when it happened.

When it let go, i was only @ 17#s of boost and 10° of timing.
Everything was in check.

With those #s it was pushing 48lbs/min iirc @4800 all the way to 5400rpm when it went pop..


Back tracking here,

Couple months back, when i 1st started dealing with the " ghost knock "
I had a tank of bad ethanol and replaying things out i suspect it got hurt then.
It has 154k. On it, and this was the 1st issue.

Time to snag a new motor and and try this out again.

And yes ,

I took baby steps with the e70 tune making sure everything was in check at each area.
Low, middle input, ( and i hadnt got to go wot yet )
But everything was in check. Throughout.

Tuning was it was spot on,
Motor had a weak point and the increased power level pointed that out for me!!🤣🤦🏻‍♂️

This was with
Dw400 lpfp
Xdi35 hpfp
Snow stage 2.5 meth kit vc-50 controller ( 80-20 m1 ) 625ml/min
And other stuff.
 

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My cylinder #1 has the same ghost knock your talking about. Im on individual knock so that #1 doesnt jack up my OAR. But it goes -6 nock all the time at light load, and gets in line at higher throttle inputs.
 

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Yes!!
Asssss long as your motor isnt already previously injured.


I have beem fighting this super strange low load, low rpm low throttle input no boost + knock that would randomly run up to +5 or so knock.

But as soon as you start to give er" some beans it'll go negative. ( the area everyone has issues with is the atea that i go -4 or more knock to get my oar back up.

Anyways, been chasimg that, and jus recently noticed a very suble ta ta ta sound (ONLY, between 1100 and 1800 rpm. Started putting 2 and 2 together, but because it wasnt increasing with rpm, i suspected it had something to do with the vct.


Weellll.
50% throttle pull and my block turned into a framer and built it self a nice little window next to cyl.#1!
Flipped the piston upside down and had the small end of the connecting rod handing out on top!.

It was a super strong pull, felt stronger @ 1/2 trottle than my fully revised e30 did @ wot.

And i just so happened to be recording when it happened.

When it let go, i was only @ 17#s of boost and 10° of timing.
Everything was in check.

With those #s it was pushing 48lbs/min iirc @4800 all the way to 5400rpm when it went pop..


Back tracking here,

Couple months back, when i 1st started dealing with the " ghost knock "
I had a tank of bad ethanol and replaying things out i suspect it got hurt then.
It has 154k. On it, and this was the 1st issue.

Time to snag a new motor and and try this out again.

And yes ,

I took baby steps with the e70 tune making sure everything was in check at each area.
Low, middle input, ( and i hadnt got to go wot yet )
But everything was in check. Throughout.

Tuning was it was spot on,
Motor had a weak point and the increased power level pointed that out for me!!🤣🤦🏻‍♂️

This was with
Dw400 lpfp
Xdi35 hpfp
Snow stage 2.5 meth kit vc-50 controller ( 80-20 m1 ) 625ml/min
And other stuff.
So stock turbos but E50?
 

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Premium Member
2012 f150 3.5 platinum 4x4
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168 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So stock turbos but E50?
I ran e55 on my e30 tune for months.
( i monitor religiously )
And all was in check.

I think if you are wanting to "safely" push the limits with stock turbos , e50 and meth is a purdy powerful combination.( this was my goal, i was trying to see just how much we could squeeze out of the stock turbos. )


I also think if the motor was ok, and i was able to log a wot pull. We could have easily dialed back the low end torque, and allowed it to stretch its legs up top to the full potential of the tiny stockers..

It doesnt take a genies-ass 😆 to know that the safe big power comes from larger turbos with more air volume vs. Psi and timing°.

But dog gonnit! I wanted to see!! .

I will say this, the pull it popped on sure as hell had me grinning till it popped!.

It was by far the hardest hit it has ever made!.
Amd it was only 1/2 throttle!

I have a fella i chat with,
He has a very similar set up to mine, but his is a 15'.
He runs e85. With both upgraded pumps
And is running 12.81 in the 1320' .

It's definitely a doing combo.
And as much as want to argue the fact that its a doing combo,
I cant, its just smarter to go with bigger turbos and get the volume over psi.
You can easily get more power with less stress to the motor that way. .


But, i think part of my view is skewed tho.
I have been doing a ton of tuning this summer,
But i have been tuning around an injured motor.
So i never really knew what its peak potential was.
The ghost knock would never let me run the full 19° of timing, boost would never really peak out the way it should.
( it was fast, but it was never consistent , thats why i thought it might have something to do with the vct)


Enough rambling.

E50 on a daily stock turbo is more than enough.
Lol.
 

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2012 f150 3.5 platinum 4x4
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My cylinder #1 has the same ghost knock your talking about. Im on individual knock so that #1 doesnt jack up my OAR. But it goes -6 nock all the time at light load, and gets in line at higher throttle inputs.
My cylinder #1 has the same ghost knock your talking about. Im on individual knock so that #1 doesnt jack up my OAR. But it goes -6 nock all the time at light load, and gets in line at higher throttle inputs.
What do you mean by individual knock?
Are you moitoring each cylinder individually?
Do you mean it goes positive?
Negative knock is good( that means you fuel is a good enough quality to add timing)
 

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What do you mean by individual knock?
Are you moitoring each cylinder individually?
Do you mean it goes positive?
Negative knock is good( that means you fuel is a good enough quality to add timing)
The tunes have a setting for global knock or individual. Global uses the worst cylinder to drive the timing for all cylinders. Individual knock has individual KR’s for each cylinder and each runs its own timing.

In Individual mode the KR flips, so positive is good, negative is bad.
 

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2012 f150 3.5 platinum 4x4
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168 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The tunes have a setting for global knock or individual. Global uses the worst cylinder to drive the timing for all cylinders. Individual knock has individual KR’s for each cylinder and each runs its own timing.

In Individual mode the KR flips, so positive is good, negative is bad.
Thanks mass-hole !
I knew we could do individual ( use it on forscan)
But truthfully never used it( if i did i may not be in this pickle, ) but i did not know it flipped it!.
Do you know why it would do that.
Seems counterintuitive to the strategy of -knock more timing, + knock less timing.
And also how the oar table works as a slidding max timing dealo based on +/- knock.

( just trying to learn, not pick anything a part)
 

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Thanks mass-hole !
I knew we could do individual ( use it on forscan)
But truthfully never used it( if i did i may not be in this pickle, ) but i did not know it flipped it!.
Do you know why it would do that.
Seems counterintuitive to the strategy of -knock more timing, + knock less timing.
And also how the oar table works as a slidding max timing dealo based on +/- knock.

( just trying to learn, not pick anything a part)
OAR works as a +/- deal because its a multiplier. There is a table that the oar is multiplied by in order to arrive at the final adjustment. On the stock tune, it multiplies it by -5. So if the oar is -1, -1 x -5 = 5 degrees of added timing.

An oar of +1, 1 x -5 = -5 degrees of timing removed.

So the OAR can adjust the base timing by +/- 5 degrees on the stock tune.

Why the KR is negative for good and positive for bad I am not sure. Its not a multiplier.
 

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2012 f150 3.5 platinum 4x4
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
OAR works as a +/- deal because its a multiplier. There is a table that the oar is multiplied by in order to arrive at the final adjustment. On the stock tune, it multiplies it by -5. So if the oar is -1, -1 x -5 = 5 degrees of added timing.

An oar of +1, 1 x -5 = -5 degrees of timing removed.

So the OAR can adjust the base timing by +/- 5 degrees on the stock tune.

Why the KR is negative for good and positive for bad I am not sure. Its not a multiplier.
I understand the oar being a multiplier.


As for the KR, I have always eye-balled on my daily drives, and have always notice it being a 1 for 1
With timing..
(Meaning )
For ever -1° of knock I will see an additional 1° of advanced timing.
Ex. Would be pulling a grade up hill in 5th , KR starts going neg. Timing advances 1° for ever -degree of kr.

Iirc, that's when it stays on borderline timing, when it switches to mbt, it acts different.

( BUT )
All of this is from paying really close attention to a hurt motor and not realizing it at the time..

Might be a bit different when it's a healthy motor.

I should have been able to run 19+° advance with -1 oar, and it never would, usually hit 13, a good day 15° adv.
It was very inconsistent when it shouldn't have been.

All the parameters where there for it to run max timing, temp, fuel, meth,iat temp,. All spot on for full fun. .

That's right !, you are one of the fellas on here that do your own tuning via hp tuners correct?

That would explain why you have a could understanding of the strategy used for ford on these motors.

Appreciate your input , thanks
 

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Premium Member
2012 f150 3.5 platinum 4x4
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168 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I understand the oar being a multiplier.


As for the KR, I have always eye-balled on my daily drives, and have always notice it being a 1 for 1
With timing..
(Meaning )
For ever -1° of knock I will see an additional 1° of advanced timing.
Ex. Would be pulling a grade up hill in 5th , KR starts going neg. Timing advances 1° for ever -degree of kr.

Iirc, that's when it stays on borderline timing, when it switches to mbt, it acts different.

( BUT )
All of this is from paying really close attention to a hurt motor and not realizing it at the time..

Might be a bit different when it's a healthy motor.

I should have been able to run 19+° advance with -1 oar, and it never would, usually hit 13, a good day 15° adv.
It was very inconsistent when it shouldn't have been.

All the parameters where there for it to run max timing, temp, fuel, meth,iat temp,. All spot on for full fun. .

That's right !, you are one of the fellas on here that do your own tuning via hp tuners correct?

That would explain why you have a could understanding of the strategy used for ford on these motors.

Appreciate your input , thanks

Who would be the fella to talk to on here about
Swapping a gen2 into my 2012?

I snagged another truck, now I'm not needing this back together as quickly.
.
The idea really intrigues me.
 
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