[Blown F-150]

while you make good point about the cost of the blower you missing the math for the big horse power is was chasing

Gen 1 3.5 ecoboost $7000-8000 efr kit (gen 2 is $11,000ish) that’s just the power adder then you need $10,000 engine (can be done cheaper) some of these engines are up to $15,000+ then you need fuel upgrades hpfp, maybe cams and injectors $1500-$5000 if they even work

coyote $6500-9000 for the power adder no engine needed, you want exhaust and fuel to chase 750+ wheel add $2000-$3000

these estimates don’t include labor or up north tax/penalty

And most of all they don’t guarantee they you will meet your goal except with the coyote.

Totally agree and I personally think you chose the best route for your goal.

But if you don’t have a coyote to begin with, you gotta buy it. Since most are on here because they have a eco and many with 12th Gen’s, that’s a cost to factor in.

I really think it’s pointless to compare costs to some degree, there are many different goals and budgets and starting points that each person needs to factor for themselves.

But your jabs at “if they will even work” and “don’t guarantee that you’ll meet your goal except a coyote” are trying to shove your perspective down people’s throats without considering other people’s goals or objectives.


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[MAXXPAY]

Totally agree and I personally think you chose the best route for your goal.

But your jabs at “if they will even work” and “don’t guarantee that you’ll meet your goal except a coyote” are trying to shove your perspective down people’s throats without considering other people’s goals or objectives.


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Fact of the matter is that it’s very expensive to make a lot of power out of the Ecoboost. I’m learning the hard way. You inevitably will too. Or you will give in and abandon the idea due to it costing outrageous amounts.




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[snakebitten]

The high cost could be considered "outrageous", I guess. But that's a matter of perspective.

There's so many folks that pay Big Buck$ for fast cars/trucks/SUV's. At what amount do you claim outrage?

Again, I don't really understand why anyone that did some due diligence would be under the impression this wouldn't be an expensive route? It's a little motor with crazy potential, but requiring a premium to get there.

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[mwemaxxowner]

I think it's considered outrageous because you can get more for less with similar vehicles but other power plants.

The high cost could be considered "outrageous", I guess. But that's a matter of perspective.

There's so many folks that pay Big Buck$ for fast cars/trucks/SUV's. At what amount do you claim outrage?

Again, I don't really understand why anyone that did some due diligence would be under the impression this wouldn't be an expensive route? It's a little motor with crazy potential, but requiring a premium to get there.

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Baaaaaaaaaaa

 

[TX-Ripper]

Yup, my Dad taught me so I could do it for myself. My first car was a turismo, not exactly a beacon of reliability, lol. I had to pay for it (farm labor) and keep it on the road. Gas was from the farm tanks, so I had it easy there.


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And those little lessons, when I did it right and when I did it wrong forged the reason I wrench on what I can now and methodically plan out my builds based on what works.

I deviated from this train of thought and it bit me with my ecoboost.

 

[MAXXPAY]

Of course it’s a matter of perspective. 10 grand to one person may be like 50 grand to another. However, I’d wager 95% of people on the forum would consider it “outrageous”


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[Blown F-150]

Fact of the matter is that it’s very expensive to make a lot of power out of the Ecoboost. I’m learning the hard way. You inevitably will too. Or you will give in and abandon the idea due to it costing outrageous amounts.




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That's the thing though, I don't think I'm going for what a lot of people on here consider "a lot of power". I'm running a baby turbo upgrade and fuel that is equal you your 91.

My stock motor is hurting (or at least I think it is, need to pull it apart to see how wild my imagination is). If warranty got thrown out the window, which is very much a possibility, I would be out $10k as I would want to at least do Pistons, Rods, Head work and machining. That along with all new timing set, water pump, etc. would mean it would be a better option to get a crate motor and keep the power levels down.

Why not put that towards a better motor and keep the truck?

 

[Blown F-150]

And those little lessons, when I did it right and when I did it wrong forged the reason I wrench on what I can now and methodically plan out my builds based on what works.

I deviated from this train of thought and it bit me with my ecoboost.

You were just ahead of the curve.

 

[Blown F-150]

Of course it’s a matter of perspective. 10 grand to one person may be like 50 grand to another. However, I’d wager 95% of people on the forum would consider it “outrageous”


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Really, a whole motor for $10k is outrageous when a supercharger on sale is $6200? I would say a long block is more complicated with more parts. A vehicle can run without a super charger but not really feasibible without the motor.

Like you say though, I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[mwemaxxowner]

Really, a whole motor for $10k is outrageous when a supercharger on sale is $6200? I would say a long block is more complicated with more parts. A vehicle can run without a super charger but not really feasibible without the motor.

Like you say though, I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

I don't think going for a build is crazy at all if the motor you had needed some attention anyway. What puzzles me is buying a truck, pulling a perfectly good motor, doing a sh* ton of work on it and spending 10-20,000 dollars, when you could have slapped a supercharger on a 5.0 and made more, been reliable, for less money and been done with it. And KNEW what sort of power you'd get.

I think we've seen one 600 hp Eco, and that was one Ryan worked on for forever, and that was at like one million rpms.

Tune for tune looking for street smiles? Eco all the way!!!

Baaaaaaaaaaa

 

[TX-Ripper]

But your jabs at “if they will even work” and “don’t guarantee that you’ll meet your goal except a coyote” are trying to shove your perspective down people’s throats without considering other people’s goals or objectives.

I can see where you would feel like these statements are jabs, but to me they are facts based on what I’ve seen here and the real world over the last 2 years.

You know if someone could have made 800rwhp like has been claimed it would have been done.

Not jabbing I’m trying to use facts to show my point of view

 

[TX-Ripper]

I don't think going for a build is crazy at all if the motor you had needed some attention anyway. What puzzles me is buying a truck, pulling a perfectly good motor, doing a sh* ton of work on it and spending 10-20,000 dollars, when you could have slapped a supercharger on a 5.0 and made more, been reliable, for less money and been done with it. And KNEW what sort of power you'd get.

I think we've seen one 600 hp Eco, and that was one Ryan worked on for forever, and that was at like one million rpms.

Tune for tune looking for street smiles? Eco all the way!!!

Baaaaaaaaaaa

And didn’t spool til redline.

 

[TX-Ripper]

Really, a whole motor for $10k is outrageous when a supercharger on sale is $6200? I would say a long block is more complicated with more parts. A vehicle can run without a super charger but not really feasibible without the motor.

Like you say though, I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

if you need a motor get one. Can’t have a truck without a motor, build it if you want or oem.

i think you missed my point of the two power adders costing close to the same but one platform needing a $10,000 motor to go with the power adder and one not.



edit: to make big power, I know you own the gts. They will not make big power.

 

[MAXXPAY]

Really, a whole motor for $10k is outrageous when a supercharger on sale is $6200? I would say a long block is more complicated with more parts. A vehicle can run without a super charger but not really feasibible without the motor.

Like you say though, I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

I never stated the cost of a motor is 10k. I’m comparing the value of 10k to 50k based on one mans perspective vs another. Which boils down to the financial well being of one vs another


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[snakebitten]

You can spend more than $10k without even trying.
Just the heads can be shown exhaustive love (couldn't resist) and run up a nice $tab.

You can go dry sump.
You can go billet crank
You can..........

The $spread between a basic sound build and an all out masterpiece is wide.



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[Blown F-150]

I can see where you would feel like these statements are jabs, but to me they are facts based on what I’ve seen here and the real world over the last 2 years.

You know if someone could have made 800rwhp like has been claimed it would have been done.

Not jabbing I’m trying to use facts to show my point of view

Dude, they aren't facts. They are your opinion based on your expectations. Saying "if they even work" is grabbing a single example.

Best Whipple 5.0 on 35's I can find, put down 567whp.

Everyone just cares about a number, not taking into account how a vehicle is configured or what Dyno the numbers come from. So I guess a engine builder is better off to put a engine in a vehicle with minimal drive train loss and advertise the crap out of it. Screw what the the average truck owner has in their driveway.

 

[Blown F-150]

if you need a motor get one. Can’t have a truck without a motor, build it if you want or oem.

i think you missed my point of the two power adders costing close to the same but one platform needing a $10,000 motor to go with the power adder and one not.



edit: to make big power, I know you own the gts. They will not make big power.

Totally agree. There are folks out there with EFR kits on stock blocks and I don't think that's a route I would go.

If you have a 5.0, then it's a no brainer, I wouldn't swap to a Eco to make bigger HP numbers. But if I wanted a super fun truck and only want to spend $500 and not bolt a thing onto the truck, Eco makes more sense.

My point is that if you don't have a 5.0 to begin with, you realistically aren't buying one to swap into your eco based truck. You'll have to buy another truck and there is a cost associated to it. If you trade up often and are looking for bigger numbers, I say go for a 5.0.

I can all but guarantee, if my truck had the 5.0 in it when I bought it, it would have had a Whipple on it in less than a year.

This is really generalizing it, but this is my opinion.

IF WE ARE TALKING 2018's.

- Very Easy 450whp and gobs of torque = 3.5 eco with $500ish
- Easy 600whp and lots of torque = 5.0 + Whipple (even though I had Roush Blower, I prefer Whipple) $6500ish

Vehicle config and fuel available will lead to varying results.

 

[Blown F-150]

I don't think going for a build is crazy at all if the motor you had needed some attention anyway. What puzzles me is buying a truck, pulling a perfectly good motor, doing a sh* ton of work on it and spending 10-20,000 dollars, when you could have slapped a supercharger on a 5.0 and made more, been reliable, for less money and been done with it. And KNEW what sort of power you'd get.

I think we've seen one 600 hp Eco, and that was one Ryan worked on for forever, and that was at like one million rpms.

Tune for tune looking for street smiles? Eco all the way!!!

Baaaaaaaaaaa

Yup, I agree. it also depends on how invested you are in your vehicle outside of the engine.

2015 Whipple 5.0 with 35's. Closest I could find to the config of Ryan's truck. Absolutely cheaper than Ryan's build, but the delta is not as impressive as some others that are trying to compare Ryan's numbers.
https://imgur.com/a/STrNnsS

 

[TX-Ripper]

Dude, they aren't facts. They are your opinion based on your expectations. Saying "if they even work" is grabbing a single example.

Best Whipple 5.0 on 35's I can find, put down 567whp.

Everyone just cares about a number, not taking into account how a vehicle is configured or what Dyno the numbers come from. So I guess a engine builder is better off to put a engine in a vehicle with minimal drive train loss and advertise the crap out of it. Screw what the the average truck owner has in their driveway.

one reason track numbers help, everyone can convert mph and weight to get a level playing field.

I disagree about them not being facts.

one example. Mine is pretty well documented. Stock wheels tirers, stock Dyno base line, same Dyno for the mods. I even posted track times and my weight.

on the flip side I can point out multiple people here that have these big build set ups and have small fortunes invested, that have trucks that don’t run or if they run don’t produce what they expected.

“Fortune” is my opinion and not a fact the rest are facts.

 

[TX-Ripper]

Totally agree. There are folks out there with EFR kits on stock blocks and I don't think that's a route I would go.

If you have a 5.0, then it's a no brainer, I wouldn't swap to a Eco to make bigger HP numbers. But if I wanted a super fun truck and only want to spend $500 and not bolt a thing onto the truck, Eco makes more sense.

My point is that if you don't have a 5.0 to begin with, you realistically aren't buying one to swap into your eco based truck. You'll have to buy another truck and there is a cost associated to it. If you trade up often and are looking for bigger numbers, I say go for a 5.0.

I can all but guarantee, if my truck had the 5.0 in it when I bought it, it would have had a Whipple on it in less than a year.

This is really generalizing it, but this is my opinion.

IF WE ARE TALKING 2018's.

- Very Easy 450whp and gobs of torque = 3.5 eco with $500ish
- Easy 600whp and lots of torque = 5.0 + Whipple (even though I had Roush Blower, I prefer Whipple) $6500ish

Vehicle config and fuel available will lead to varying results.

Agreed.