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I like the look of this dyno chart.

163780


Josh Newman at 5star
 

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Looking good! How's the fuel pressure with e85? Any dips? Are you running an aftermarket HPFP?

Edit: Just need tonsquint more on the hpfp. Did they say which pump and which dw injectors?

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Only issue is, won't last.

Why is this held to a gen2? It is the same turbo and engine. If you can run e85 on gen 1 it would be the same.
 

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Only issue is, won't last.

Why is this held to a gen2? It is the same turbo and engine. If you can run e85 on gen 1 it would be the same.
It is not the same motor or turbos at all.... the internals are different, the heads are bigger, exhaust manifolds are bigger the pistons are better, the cams are different.... the turbos have a bigger exhaust housing the compressor wheel is bigger than the full race and Ford performance turbos....

The gen 2 literally superior in every way lol...

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The internal changes are minimal from everything I have read.

Your turbo sentence is not true unless I am missing something. The 17 HO is the same turbo as the ford performance upgrades, I have not seen any stats showing the non HO is the same turbo, they do each have different part numbers. The 18+ HO has the bigger housing/wheel than the 17 HO/Ford upgrade yes, have not seen the non HO being these same turbos. If the NON HO have the same turbos as the HO, that would be surprising. The HO engines would be the same as the NON HO at that point then.

Maybe the gen 2 head flows a litle bit more than gen1, gen1 is still cooler because DAMB and is better modified.
 

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You are absolutely missing something, the full race gt turbos are 39.3mmx50.8mm (same as the 2017). The 2018 plus turbos are 40.75mm x 53.4mm. The 2018 plus turbos flow 60 lbm/min consistently where as the 2017s are 55 lbm/min and the 2016s and less are 48-49 lbm/min.

Also the ho turbo, and the non ho turbo are the same size, the only difference between the ho and non ho is the turbine material.


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So all 2017 year, NON/HO engines have the same upgraded "GT" turbos and 18+ all have the even bigger turbos than the "GT" with only change between NON/HO being the material? This makes no sense, the HO engine itself is almost identical as the non HO, now if they both have the same turbos too, why? If that is the case, you're paying a premium then to have more power based on only having more aggressive tune/ boost factory on the HO engine?

So coming back to my original post. If you have upgraded turbos on stock gen1 and e85, you can make the power at risk.
 

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2017 F150 3.5 LARIAT W/O HO - turbo charger part numbers
1. hl3z-6k682-c right and left

2017 F150 3.5 RAPTOR
1. hl7z-6k682-c (right)
2. hl7z-6k682-a

2016 F150 non ho
1. dl3z-6k682-f

2014 f150 non ho
1. dl3z-6k682-f

This was just pulled off tasca. So for 2017 non/ho have different part numbers, why? 2016 has the same turbo part number as the 14.

Just trying to get to the bottom of this.
 

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2017 F150 3.5 LARIAT W/O HO - turbo charger part numbers
1. hl3z-6k682-c right and left

2017 F150 3.5 RAPTOR
1. hl7z-6k682-c (right)
2. hl7z-6k682-a

2016 F150 non ho
1. dl3z-6k682-f

2014 f150 non ho
1. dl3z-6k682-f

This was just pulled off tasca. So for 2017 non/ho have different part numbers, why? 2016 has the same turbo part number as the 14.

Just trying to get to the bottom of this.
As I already stated the ho and non ho have different turbine materials I.e. different part numbers.

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That is a straight Ford SCAM then is all true. There is NOTHING special about the HO engine besides the 18+ having stainless manifolds, you're only getting a hotter tune, yet paying a premium. They market it as a special engine. The engine is not stronger etc and the turbos are the same except material (guessing heat issue).

Are the Ford performance/fullrace upgrades for gen 1 the upgraded material of the HO or no?
 

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That is a straight Ford SCAM then is all true. There is NOTHING special about the HO engine besides the 18+ having stainless manifolds, you're only getting a hotter tune, yet paying a premium. They market it as a special engine. The engine is not stronger etc and the turbos are the same except material (guessing heat issue).

Are the Ford performance/fullrace upgrades for gen 1 the upgraded material of the HO or no?
Ummmm scam?

Ford charges a price increase for the better piston (I believe the ringland/rings and cooling oil jets), better crank, better turbo material, better exhaust manifold, better exhaust, better transmission mount (?) and MORE power-performance (tune) all while supplying a Ford Factory Warranty!

Why would that in any way be considered slight of hand?

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The HO motor has a better piston, .5 lower compression too, but essentially the ho is just designed to take more heat than the non ho. The HO is more capable on pump gas but the non ho makes more power on e85. Untimently the HO will hold more power when it comes to big turbos.

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The manifolds and turbo material are due to heat as you said. The regular stuff probably failed in testing, cause there's no way they just put it there to put it there.

The piston in the HO is still cast right? Then it is nothing to get excited about. Also lucky for us, the eco has a thicker ring land even in regular engines.

What is changed in the crank? The "regular" crank is still forged and these aren't high rpm engines, i doubt we will ever see a crank break.

My point from the start still remains the same, the newer trucks have the bigger turbos stock. That is why they are making the power, this is not shocking. Upgraded a gen 1 turbo and run on e85 and itll make similar power.
 

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The manifolds and turbo material are due to heat as you said. The regular stuff probably failed in testing, cause there's no way they just put it there to put it there.

The piston in the HO is still cast right? Then it is nothing to get excited about. Also lucky for us, the eco has a thicker ring land even in regular engines.

What is changed in the crank? The "regular" crank is still forged and these aren't high rpm engines, i doubt we will ever see a crank break.

My point from the start still remains the same, the newer trucks have the bigger turbos stock. That is why they are making the power, this is not shocking. Upgraded a gen 1 turbo and run on e85 and itll make similar power.
I promise I get the premise of your stance.
Really. I do.

Pure performance wise, the power difference between the regular VS HO is very very narrow if you throw the same (relative) tune at them both. That's arguably supported.

But I, someone with the non-HO, still would rather have the HO under the hood of my King Ranch, had I had the choice. And would gladly have paid it.

At some point in the lifetime of this truck I'll drop the built motor in it and the whole point will be moot for me personally. But until then I will just rail on the non-HO and see if it can take it. (pump gas railing, of course)

It's a dang hoot to drive regardless



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Discussion Starter #18

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Discussion Starter #19
Looking good! How's the fuel pressure with e85? Any dips? Are you running an aftermarket HPFP?

Edit: Just need tonsquint more on the hpfp. Did they say which pump and which dw injectors?

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xdi60 HPFP, stock port injectors, dw400 lift pump (in tank), good enough for 600hp and enough hurt some feelings
 

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My understanding of the turbo size was as follows:

2017 non-HO: same size compressor/turbine as the 13-16 turbos but now has a electric actuator
2017 HO: Same size as the GT/Ford Perf/etc(39.3mm inducer)
2018+ non-HO: Same size as the GT/Ford Perf/etc(39.3mm inducer)
2018 HO: Bigger than GT, 40.75mm inducer
2019 HO: Port Shrouded, new turbine materials, but otherwise the same as 2018 HO.

This corresponds to the overspeed maps in the tunes:

2017 non-HO, ~50 lb/min:

163782


2017 HO, ~60 lb/min:

163783


2018 non-HO, ~60 lb/min:

163784


I can't find a 2018+ Raptor tune to pull the table from.
 
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