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Does anyone know if all 2018’s have different turbos or could early 2018s have 2017 turbos? Just curious since my 2018 was built in late 2017


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So they made the turbos "bigger" or put out more PSI from '17 to '18 but the HP/TRQ ratings stayed the same, even for the '19's? I know the 2nd gen 3.5 got a good boost from gen1 but if that added ~2lbs of boost via turbo improvements you'd think those numbers would show in a modest increase on their advertising & bragging rights for one of their "best in class" motor(s). :cool: I suppose they might have wanted to keep the 75hp gap between the 3.5 on the raptor and the other ... run-of-the-mill F150's LOL.
 

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So they made the turbos "bigger" or put out more PSI from '17 to '18 but the HP/TRQ ratings stayed the same, even for the '19's? I know the 2nd gen 3.5 got a good boost from gen1 but if that added ~2lbs of boost via turbo improvements you'd think those numbers would show in a modest increase on their advertising & bragging rights for one of their "best in class" motor(s). :cool: I suppose they might have wanted to keep the 75hp gap between the 3.5 on the raptor and the other ... run-of-the-mill F150's LOL.
Remember PSI doesn’t translate to air flow. So one turbo making 21 psi and another making 17 aren’t necessarily relevant to one another and how much power they make.
 

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I get that and know you can max out cfm of the intake system feeding the motor but as long as you don't have a bottleneck somewhere and already at peak cfm with the current boot (which stock systems rarely if ever do) then a couple psi gain should have some modest output gains as well.

On a built and tuned system that's peaked out on flow #'s already, you're absolutely right.
 

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I get that and know you can max out cfm of the intake system feeding the motor but as long as you don't have a bottleneck somewhere and already at peak cfm with the current boot (which stock systems rarely if ever do) then a couple psi gain should have some modest output gains as well.

On a built and tuned system that's peaked out on flow #'s already, you're absolutely right.
It’s all in the Tune. The PCM is commanding a certain HP and the motor obliges.

I can see already that the 2019 Raptor turbos flow considerably more than the GTs. I know some of it is the head and chamber porting, but still, they can flow more.


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Remember PSI doesn’t translate to air flow. So one turbo making 21 psi and another making 17 aren’t necessarily relevant to one another and how much power they make.
I do not understand how this is possible. Isnt the PSI created by the engines resistance to the air flow. So if you are flowing the same CFM then the pressure would need to be the same? Barring a different turbine being used of course, because that changes the resistance to flow.

Genuinely curious how this works, I have heard this many times and it does not compute.
 

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I do not understand how this is possible. Isnt the PSI created by the engines resistance to the air flow. So if you are flowing the same CFM then the pressure would need to be the same? Barring a different turbine being used of course, because that changes the resistance to flow.

Genuinely curious how this works, I have heard this many times and it does not compute.
17 psi on EFRS is prob 50-75 hp more power (depending on head porting) than 17 psi with the stock turbos because of the extra exhaust flow.

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17 psi on EFRS is prob 50-75 hp more power (depending on head porting) than 17 psi with the stock turbos because of the extra exhaust flow.

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right but what about GT's. Same turbine as stock but bigger compressor, yet I have heard people say they will flow more at the same boost.
 

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right but what about GT's. Same turbine as stock but bigger compressor, yet I have heard people say they will flow more at the same boost.
I don't know what kind of black magic is in those things, but yes 100% they do flow more at the same PSI. 18psi to 18psi with no other changes (other than accommodating tune) and the GT's flowed 5#/min more at the same RPM.
 

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With turbos is about efficiency, all things being equal if you just change to a better designed compressor wheel it will flow more. Just throwing numbers out there but if stock turbo tuned is only operating at 60% efficiency and you put a compressor wheel that is now at 85% efficiency you will flow more and make more power. It’s about input vs output. Lower efficiency means it take more input to make flow/boost requirements meaning its takes more force on turbine to make the commanded boost/hp. More input on turbine means more back pressure. So if you lower back pressure you increase flow through engine which will lower the resistance on turbo and boost pressure will drop at same wastegate duty cycle and you will have to command more duty cycle to get back to original boost. Since a lot of turbo cars have a target boost pressure the closed loop PID algorithm will automatically add duty cycle to get boost back to target set in tune so you wouldn’t see the drop in boost. Eco boost does things different, they don’t have a target boost they have a target torque.

Anyone who has played with positive displacement blowers knows this. If you increase flow out of engine your boost pressure will drop to lower psi but blower is still flowing the same cfm it was before (so same blower will flow higher cfm at lower boost since now there is less resistance) You would have to change pulley to get back to original psi. If turbo is cause of back pressure the only ways to lower it is with more efficient compressor or turbine wheel or larger AR housings.

It’s hard to explain things through text for me so sorry if no one was able to follow what I was trying to say lol.


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With turbos is about efficiency, all things being equal if you just change to a better designed compressor wheel it will flow more. Just throwing numbers out there but if stock turbo tuned is only operating at 60% efficiency and you put a compressor wheel that is now at 85% efficiency you will flow more and make more power. It’s about input vs output. Lower efficiency means it take more input to make flow/boost requirements meaning its takes more force on turbine to make the commanded boost/hp. More input on turbine means more back pressure. So if you lower back pressure you increase flow through engine which will lower the resistance on turbo and boost pressure will drop at same wastegate duty cycle and you will have to command more duty cycle to get back to original boost. Since a lot of turbo cars have a target boost pressure the closed loop PID algorithm will automatically add duty cycle to get boost back to target set in tune so you wouldn’t see the drop in boost. Eco boost does things different, they don’t have a target boost they have a target torque.

Anyone who has played with positive displacement blowers knows this. If you increase flow out of engine your boost pressure will drop to lower psi but blower is still flowing the same cfm it was before (so same blower will flow higher cfm at lower boost since now there is less resistance) You would have to change pulley to get back to original psi. If turbo is cause of back pressure the only ways to lower it is with more efficient compressor or turbine wheel or larger AR housings.

It’s hard to explain things through text for me so sorry if no one was able to follow what I was trying to say lol.


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No i gotcha. You are basically improving VE of the engine(including the exhaust), by getting more exhaust out during the exhaust stroke due to lower EMP's and therefore refilling the cylinders with more fresh air. At the same time you are providing a cooler air charge.

This of course assumes you are maxing out the stock turbos. But we wouldn't be having this conversation if we weren't. I am guessing a stock tune F150 might not see any additional flow from GT's.
 

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No i gotcha. You are basically improving VE of the engine(including the exhaust), by getting more exhaust out during the exhaust stroke due to lower EMP's and therefore refilling the cylinders with more fresh air. At the same time you are providing a cooler air charge.

This of course assumes you are maxing out the stock turbos. But we wouldn't be having this conversation if we weren't. I am guessing a stock tune F150 might not see any additional flow from GT's.
Ported compressors don't flow more air all else being equal. They help prevent compressor surge on the upper left side of the compressor map. Looks like i need to do an in-depth comparison of the wheels in these things...

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I think I will live with the sexiness of 120 lb/min turbos and ported shroud. The look alone is worth whatever the loss.

Also to think about. Ported shroud on a 71/63 for example will flow about 20-30 rwhp more than a 2-1/2” compressor inlet. Why?

You won’t have 3” intake pipes and an air box usually and their is a big gain there
 

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Where did port shrouding come from? I never said anything about that lol. Weren't we just talking about stock/stockish F150 turbos.?
 

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Where did port shrouding come from? I never said anything about that lol. Weren't we just talking about stock/stockish F150 turbos.?
Late 2017 into 2018 ford changed the turbos pretty drastically

Even if something looks the same like the turbine, it’s not, and it’s rad ford threw these turbos together for these trucks. Top tier oem turbo setup for sure I mean mclaren uses the same stuff just different sizes and specs, but quality and latest aero, and super alloy
 

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Late 2017 into 2018 ford changed the turbos pretty drastically

Even if something looks the same like the turbine, it’s not, and it’s rad ford threw these turbos together for these trucks. Top tier oem turbo setup for sure I mean mclaren uses the same stuff just different sizes and specs, but quality and latest aero, and super alloy
Damn it, I just need to buy a 2018.
 

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for the record: on a 3.5L F150, only the comp cover changes between 2017 to 2018. The compressor and turbine wheel sizes did not change. These are the same rotor group/wheels as 13-16 (Not bigger as many people claim it is).

the High Output 3.5L in 2018+ raptor and 2018+ Platinum F150 does get the Mar-M turbine wheel and larger compressor stage. The Mar-M material is unique to raptor and 3.5L HD. not the standard F150 3.5L.

there were no 2.7L changes
 

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for the record: on a 3.5L F150, only the comp cover changes between 2017 to 2018. The compressor and turbine wheel sizes did not change. These are the same rotor group/wheels as 13-16 (Not bigger as many people claim it is).

the High Output 3.5L in 2018+ raptor and 2018+ Platinum F150 does get the Mar-M turbine wheel and larger compressor stage. The Mar-M material is unique to raptor and 3.5L HD. not the standard F150 3.5L.

there were no 2.7L changes
Thanks for clarification Geoff, but that just encourages questions. :)

What is the real world gain from changing the compressor cover on the 18?
And you are saying the "HO" is the same Turbo but with different metallurgy?



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