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2019 Lariat Supercrew 3.5 EcoBoost with Max Tow
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2019 Supercrew 3.5 Ecoboost with the 10 speed transmission and 28k miles. I have a shudder that I believe is torque converter or driveline/transmission related. There are several symptoms that I don't know if they're related.

The main shudder is under light acceleration, primarily in 10th gear about 45-47mph, especially if there is a slight incline and you increase the throttle. It'll continue to shudder up to about 55mph. It'll also do it on a slight incline in 7th gear around 30mph almost as noticeably. Primary feedback seems to be through the wheel but I've also ridden in the truck as a passenger and can still easily notice it. Time of year doesn't seem to have any effect and I replaced plugs gapped at .028 also to no avail. I don't believe it is driveshaft related because it stops completely by downshifting or by accelerating more aggressively through these speeds. This is by no means something I would consider violent though, just a light shudder of the entire vehicle. I really don't think it's tire related.

Similar feeling that isn't as easy to replicate is taking off normally from a stoplight I feel a slight shudder like previously described right after one of the gear changes but I can't nail down which one exactly, 6th maybe? Feels like it could be when the torque converter locks up.

The final symptom is not much of an issue now in the summer but when I leave work when the truck has sat cold all day around 10-20 degrees I'll be leaving nice and easy to let everything warm up and it has skipped from 1st to 4th with a very noticeable delay followed by a hard shift into gear (people behind me wondering why I'm not accelerating faster type of thing). This has only happened a few times in the two winters I've owned the truck. When the temperatures are warmer in the 60-70s type thing it has also done a slow hesitation shift after sitting for a few hours but not near as bad. Both of these cases are the first, maybe second time shifting through the gears after startup.

Seems to me all of these things could be torque converter but I don't know for sure. Need warranty work done so I'll likely be heading to the dealer in the next few weeks but looking for some advice ahead of time.
 

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I'm experiencing thr same shudder you've described. 2020 3.5EB supercrew. Just got the truck back from the dealer today, they replaced my driveshaft after noting a 7hz vibration was found to be coming from the driveshaft using their EVA tool. I thought this fixed the issue but after driving around town again the issue is still there. This shuddering creates a light bucking sensation and it seems to be more prevalent when it's hot and humid out.

Hoping the Ford rep on here sees this and can help escalate as this is really disheartening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I was trying to rule stuff out and wasn’t expecting it to be tires or driveshaft, I’ve seen many driveshaft related posts and didn’t think mine fit the bill. It makes me not think it’s these because it’s doesn’t do it in a lower gear, higher rpm, even though the driveshaft and tires spin at the same rate regardless of gear at a given speed. Meaning the vibration would still be present.

I was nearly empty and decided to try a tank of premium gas, I can’t tell if it’s in my head or not but it seems to be better but still there. Meaning it could be engine related? I’m curious if there is anything going on with knock during these circumstances.
 

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2021 Powerboost Platinum FX4 Kodiak Brown
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Think about if your 10r80 was a manual transmission. Would you be in 7th gear at 30mph? Or 10th gear at 45? That has to border on potential lugging of the motor.

The strategy that results in the transmission being that aggressive at getting into overdrive probably exacerbates the load on the motor in various ways.

I'd try a different strategy (mode) or switch to manual shifting in order to compare. If the truck is more polished and smoother at higher rpms, I'd consider that data as significant.



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2013 XLT 302A 145" Screw
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I concur with @snakebitten above. The shudder is likely akin to being in too high of a gear ratio for the speed just like the shuddering clutch under similar conditions with a manual tranny.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Like @snakebitten said, no I wouldn’t be in that high of a gear. I’m strongly considering a tune such as 5star almost more for the transmission then the power to mitigate things like this.

However, my devil’s advocate thought here…there’s a lot of new vehicles with automatic transmissions out there on the road, they’re almost all certainly after maximum efficiency just like our trucks and I haven’t necessarily felt similar characteristics from them. Making it a bit harder for me to accept the “nature of the beast” diagnosis.

This is a different beast being diesel and a different tranny but my dad has a 10r140 that is smooth as silk all the time.
 

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When I manually drop it down from when the vibration is occurring (starts at about 40mph through ~55mph +/-) into 5th or 6th gear, the same shuddering, slight bucking sensation is still noticeable.

I seem to notice this much more when it's especially hot / humid. Here in MA it's in the 90s right now with high humidity. I've seen numerous threads about condensation concerns, bad coils, fouled/improperly gapped plugs, Torque converter shudders, etc. This is a 2020 with only ~4500miles which just adds to the frustration.
 

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When I manually drop it down from when the vibration is occurring (starts at about 40mph through ~55mph +/-) into 5th or 6th gear, the same shuddering, slight bucking sensation is still noticeable.

I seem to notice this much more when it's especially hot / humid. Here in MA it's in the 90s right now with high humidity. I've seen numerous threads about condensation concerns, bad coils, fouled/improperly gapped plugs, Torque converter shudders, etc. This is a 2020 with only ~4500miles which just adds to the frustration.
Your truck and BigBob's might both be described as "shuddering" and yet not be the same cause.
They might not even be the same "shudder", if you were to drive them back to back.

And if downshifting isn't helping then at least you can eliminate lugging the motor as a potential contributor.

I'm only guessing, of course, but if it is transmission related it would seem your factory warranty would be there for you. Did your truck do this from day one?

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Like @snakebitten said, no I wouldn’t be in that high of a gear. I’m strongly considering a tune such as 5star almost more for the transmission then the power to mitigate things like this.

However, my devil’s advocate thought here…there’s a lot of new vehicles with automatic transmissions out there on the road, they’re almost all certainly after maximum efficiency just like our trucks and I haven’t necessarily felt similar characteristics from them. Making it a bit harder for me to accept the “nature of the beast” diagnosis.

This is a different beast being diesel and a different tranny but my dad has a 10r140 that is smooth as silk all the time.
I can assure you that you would be amazed at how much better your transmission can perform with a transmission tune. It's sad that the oem strategy is so unpolished considering that an aftermarket editing of the parameters can improve it dramatically.

I have to plug Matt at GearHead if you are tuning for the sake of transmission strategy. I personally think his transmission tuning was the best I had on my 2018 KingRanch.

My 2021 is an all new beast and nobody can fix the transmission quirks that it has. Fortunately the so called Sport strategy seems to be pretty good. Much better than the 2018 was pre-tuned.

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
To further your point @Stevec1129 mine will also do it between 55-60mph when going uphill in 9th or 10th gear. I don't think I'd consider it lugging the engine as much in 9th gear at those speeds. I appreciate the input from everyone though.

I'm thinking I may make a trip to the dealer for a series of test drives on other trucks rather then a service appointment, see if this is a common or isolated occurrence on these trucks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I can assure you that you would be amazed at how much better your transmission can perform with a transmission tune. It's sad that the oem strategy is so unpolished considering that an aftermarket editing of the parameters can improve it dramatically.

I have to plug Matt at GearHead if you are tuning for the sake of transmission strategy. I personally think his transmission tuning was the best I had on my 2018 KingRanch.

My 2021 is an all new beast and nobody can fix the transmission quirks that it has. Fortunately the so called Sport strategy seems to be pretty good. Much better than the 2018 was pre-tuned.

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@snakebitten you may just push me over the edge on getting a tune! I don't necessarily want to turn this into a tuning thread but I appreciate the suggestion. I was leaning 5star if I did it because I would probably get the tow/perf tunes, and they're well received it seems. I don't see anybody really having catastrophic failures while running any tunes but I also would probably like to stay more on the conservative side. Transmission only is as conservative as it gets. I have diesels at my disposal for serious towing, I'm just looking for the most refined experience out of my truck, all the power is a nice bonus!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Your truck and BigBob's might both be described as "shuddering" and yet not be the same cause.
They might not even be the same "shudder", if you were to drive them back to back.

And if downshifting isn't helping then at least you can eliminate lugging the motor as a potential contributor.

I'm only guessing, of course, but if it is transmission related it would seem your factory warranty would be there for you. Did your truck do this from day one?

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I have owned the truck since it was new so 28k miles. I don't seem to recall it doing it new, I know I'm much more critical of it now though so it could've been since new. I would say though that I'm probably close to a year by now at a minimum that I've been noticing it.
 

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It’s a low RPM/high load scenario for these engines which leads to the “shudder”. I watch my gauges on the daily and you can see knock retard steadily creep up into the positive numbers under the same scenario as described in this thread.

93 octane does improve this “issue” because it has better knock resistance. If I keep my Gearhead tuned truck in “normal” mode it will do it still but it’s more eager to downshift with a bit of throttle which clears up the issue for me. IMO, the GH trans tuning doesn’t act much different from stock at all. All of my gripes that are transmission related are still there same as on the OEM tune. The engine tuning is great for what it is though!

Ideally, I’d like the have them tweak the trans strategy to get what I would consider a happy medium. I want a “normal” mode that is somewhere between the current normal and sport modes. I find sport mode to be way too hesitant to upshift while normal is all too eager to upshift.


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The driveshaft was replaced in my 2020 Screw 3.5L last week, I got the truck back and it was still doing a similar shudder albeit a bit less.

I called the dealer, they told me to bring it back as soon as I could to meet with the tech foreman. I brought it in the same day, we drove around for 20 mins or so. The tech I met with was very helpful and seemed genuinely interested in helping me sort this out. He went in to the shop, came back and hooked up the scanner. He said there was an update from ford that addresses a similar concern but wasn't entirely sure it would cure it; he called my issue more of a chugging than a shudder. He installed the update, reset the transmission parameters and 5 days later I am still shutter free (knock on wood). I'll report back if this issue comes back or if I can get my hands on the update he did but there could be some hope if others are having this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The driveshaft was replaced in my 2020 Screw 3.5L last week, I got the truck back and it was still doing a similar shudder albeit a bit less.

I called the dealer, they told me to bring it back as soon as I could to meet with the tech foreman. I brought it in the same day, we drove around for 20 mins or so. The tech I met with was very helpful and seemed genuinely interested in helping me sort this out. He went in to the shop, came back and hooked up the scanner. He said there was an update from ford that addresses a similar concern but wasn't entirely sure it would cure it; he called my issue more of a chugging than a shudder. He installed the update, reset the transmission parameters and 5 days later I am still shutter free (knock on wood). I'll report back if this issue comes back or if I can get my hands on the update he did but there could be some hope if others are having this.
Your description further makes it sound like we are/(were in your case hopefully) dealing with the same thing. The "chugging" description also fits the bill. For me, the problem seems to go in cycles. Each "cycle" may only last a second or less, hard to tell, but it seems to vary in intensity of the shudder/chug. Stronger feeling then it gets a bit weaker, then stronger again, the cycle continues at the offending speeds and gears. @Stevec1129 if you could potentially get that information and I could try it, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure how much the tech would disclose, but I'm very curious what things he did. Either way I can use your description to hopefully fix my issue as well!
 

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Your description further makes it sound like we are/(were in your case hopefully) dealing with the same thing. The "chugging" description also fits the bill. For me, the problem seems to go in cycles. Each "cycle" may only last a second or less, hard to tell, but it seems to vary in intensity of the shudder/chug. Stronger feeling then it gets a bit weaker, then stronger again, the cycle continues at the offending speeds and gears. @Stevec1129 if you could potentially get that information and I could try it, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure how much the tech would disclose, but I'm very curious what things he did. Either way I can use your description to hopefully fix my issue as well!
I did get a hold of my receipt. It basically states that the tech ran all tests that were within tolerances and updated the PCM, reset the transmission KAM. What they updated the PCM with I can't answer unfortunately.
 

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I think I may have spoke too soon. Driving it today I was starting to notice the same shuddering again. Will keep an eye on it and report back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That's really too bad, would've hoped it would stay fixed for longer. Maybe the transmission "relearned" back to the way you drive and its beginning to exhibit the same behavior again.

I just took the truck on a 500+ mile road trip with a passenger who has never been in my truck and he asked about the shudder without being prompted, meaning it's rather noticeable. It really seemed like it was far more pronounced than previously. It would do it while accelerating, as soon as it upshifts it shudders for a while, repeat in the next year. Strange...

I just reset all of the adaptive learn stuff with Forscan (I believe that's basically all your dealer did) we'll see how mine performs after this.
 

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Unfortunately my shuddering/chugging/bucking, whatever it may be referred to, is back. Resetting the PCM and transmission tables was merely a temporary fix. I need to make another appointment and perhaps work on getting Ford involved by opening a case. This is truly unacceptable and I won't be able to live with a simple "this is a characteristic of the truck" diagnosis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I reset mine with forscan, same results as you. Temporary improvement. I’ve been too busy to get in for a service but hope to start that process soon
 
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