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Discussion Starter #1
Quick background on my truck as it sat before last Thursday evening:

2016 SCREW 157" WB, 4wd, 3.55 E-locker, ~81k miles, fresh SP-534 plugs at 0.035" gap, 4" suspension lift, 275/65R20 BFG A/Ts on factory 20" wheels, 5-Star 87-Octane Performance/Tow tune. I have towed quite a few times with the truck and overall was pretty happy with the power and how well it performed (fuel economy aside), although I did notice once I loaded the 5-Star tune that it would not hold 6th gear on even the smaller hills and honestly felt a little sluggish overall when towing? I chalked it up to 5-Star trying to keep things "safe" and haven't put much more thought into it, but make no mistake it had markedly more pep when the stock tune was in there...

So, last Thursday night I installed an AEM intake and an MBRB dual exhaust, both products as seen here:

https://www.amazon.com/AEM-21-8128DC-Cold-Intake-System/dp/B01DBAEH68/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=AEM+AEM-21-8128DC&qid=1560799901&s=gateway&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/MBRP-S5254AL-Dual-Side-Exit/dp/B00WKKGBE2/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=MBRP+S5254AL&qid=1560799956&s=automotive&sr=1-1

What I noticed immediately was how lazy the exhaust seemed to roll out of the tailpipes... On the factory single exhaust, the steam would rocket out of the pipe, but in stark contrast now it just slowly rolls out like a thick cigar swoosh. The next thing I noticed, when towing my Jeep to the mountains this weekend (2018 JLU-R on an 18' flatdeck car hauler, total weight ~7klbs), the truck was almost completely gutless by comparison until you got up to about 3,000RPM? It seems to have lost all low-end torque, and won't hold 6th or even 5th at the slightest hint of an incline. On one particularly aggressive hill, where it admittedly used to drop down into 4th to hold 65mph, it had to drop all the way into 3rd...

Long story short, is there such a thing as too much exhaust for the EcoBoost, and did I find that breaking point with the MBRP system and a relatively stock engine otherwise? I was told by multiple sources that neither the intake or exhaust would require additional tuning, but I'm wondering if maybe that isn't the case?
 

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I’m pretty new to these ecoboost engines so someone else may have something different to say...

Everything I have ever heard regarding exhaust on a turbocharged engine said that you have all of the back pressure you need just from the turbos. I think having too big of an exhaust is really only more apparent in a naturally aspirated engine. I’m not even gonna try and guess what the problem might be but I figured I’d throw in my $.02.


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This is a very well-known reason to NOT purchase a cat-back exhaust for these Ecoboost motors. The only exhaust you *should* buy would be downpipes. See if you can return it within the return window.
 

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Also note that many of us "towing Ecoboosters" actually prefer the truck not to try to hold a taller gear, rather than downshifting.

The taller gear just calls for more Boost, which in turn generates more heat, which in many circumstances is something we are trying to reduce.

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Discussion Starter #6
This is a very well-known reason to NOT purchase a cat-back exhaust for these Ecoboost motors. The only exhaust you *should* buy would be downpipes. See if you can return it within the return window.
Interesting... I will admit I didn't do a million hours of research on the subject, but I can honestly say I never came across this opinion. Can you elaborate a bit on what the well-known reason is, exactly? Is my suspicion regarding too much exhaust flow/too little backpressure on point?
 

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Interesting... I will admit I didn't do a million hours of research on the subject, but I can honestly say I never came across this opinion. Can you elaborate a bit on what the well-known reason is, exactly? Is my suspicion regarding too much exhaust flow/too little backpressure on point?
On THIS forum, made up of a bunch of die-hard Gen1 and Gen2 F150 Ecoboosters, it's almost deafining, the chorus of "don't waste $ on cold air intakes and cat back exhaust."

I'm not saying it is unanimous, but it IS a tiny minority that will argue they see ANY performance gain. In fact, there's plenty of evidence of the contrary.

Doing it for sound and looks is mostly tolerated, lol, but claiming gains will draw a healthy dose of skepticism.

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Discussion Starter #9
Also note that many of us "towing Ecoboosters" actually prefer the truck not to try to hold a taller gear, rather than downshifting.

The taller gear just calls for more Boost, which in turn generates more heat, which in many circumstances is something we are trying to reduce.

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Understood, and I appreciate the feedback. I can wrap my head around that to a point, and like I mentioned in the OP, I'm pretty sure that is the main difference I was seeing when I first loaded the 5-Star tune. My concern now with the MBRP dual exhaust is that I've lost a significant amount of low-end power, so the truck physically can't do the work that it used to at the same lower RPM. I typically tow at 62-63mph, and don't mind some occasional hunting between 6th and 5th on moderate hills, but I bought the EcoBoost specifically for the low-end torque to avoid constant downshifts. It worked as expected until the 5-Star tune, and now with the dual exhaust it's just horrible...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
On THIS forum, made up of a bunch of die-hard Gen1 and Gen2 F150 Ecoboosters, it's almost defining, the chorus of "don't waste $ on cold air intakes and cat back exhaust."

I'm not saying it is unanimous, but it IS a tiny minority that will argue they see ANY performance gain. In fact, there's plenty of evidence of the contrary.

Doing it for sound and looks is mostly tolerated, lol, but claiming gains will draw a healthy dose of skepticism.

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I have heard plenty of the "...don't waste your money..." mantra, but never heard it would actually be detrimental. The dual exhaust was, admittedly, purely for aesthetics because I'm just a sucker for a cool pickup with dual exhaust, and I'm not even a little ashamed of that :eek: I would have been perfectly happy with net 0 in terms of performance gains, wasn't anticipating any in the first place, but certainly was not expecting reduced low RPM performance.
 

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I have heard plenty of the "...don't waste your money..." mantra, but never heard it would actually be detrimental. The dual exhaust was, admittedly, purely for aesthetics because I'm just a sucker for a cool pickup with dual exhaust, and I'm not even a little ashamed of that :eek: I would have been perfectly happy with net 0 in terms of performance gains, wasn't anticipating any in the first place, but certainly was not expecting reduced low RPM performance.
I'll admit that Raptor exhaust LOOOKS so much better than that little pipsqueek tip sticking out behind my back tire. :)

But honestly, even that factory dual exhaust comes up short singing any melody that tickles my fancy. I'm one of the few that actually enjoyed the fake V8 sound that Ford piped into my King Ranch cab. (lost it in an effort to have a nice stereo system)

I'm really curious if you tried a few different tunes if maybe you could dial that exhaust in? Or maybe some revisions from 5*? Those folks have a great reputation for tow tunes.

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I cannot see why an exhaust would hurt performance on the ecoboost unless it wasnt installed right. The less back pressure you have post turbo the better.

That said, i wouldnt expect the stock catback to be a restriction below 4k rpm anyways, so a new exhaust wouldnt help there.

You could have 5* take a look at data logs and see if it is doing anything weird.

Were you monitoring temps? Engine coolant, intake air or transmission. Now that we are getting into summer you could have just been getting hot and the truck was not pulling as strong. Mine pulls like a freight train all winter, then it hits 85* last weekend and i am going 50mph in limp mode cause i got so hot.
 

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Do the KAM reset as Envious mentioned above. Then call 5 Star. Maybe something in their "starter" tune doesn't like your truck (they all behave differently) and you may need to datalog to see what adjustments need to be made.

Does it seem weak on the stock tune with the exhaust?
 

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My understanding of why you could lose low end from too big of an exhaust on a turbo motor is exhaust gas heat/velocity. If you allow the exhaust gas to cool and slow down too much right after the turbo you will not spool as fast down low.

But I never understood how a cat-back behind a stock DP and cats would have any affect on low end. I think that after it has gotten that far through the stock exhaust you will not see an appreciable gain or loss.
 

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I can honestly say that....the 3" SPD Downpipes & 3" Turbo Flange Adapters with the 3" Gen 1 OEM Raptor twin exhaust is absolutely the cats meow!-lol
Sounds great and man the 5* tow tunes are wicked aka Jacob & Chris :wink:
In fact....they are working on an adaptive tow only tune for yours truely!
I say call up 5* and get a revision pronto....
And I tow this


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Discussion Starter #16
I need to do some research I guess... I got my SCTX4 and 5-Star tune package through Stage 3 Motorsports... Anyone know what the process of getting revised/updated tunes is with them? I'm thinking I maybe should have just gone directly through 5-Star but Stage 3 was having a sale on the device/tune package and I jumped on it to save a few bucks.
 

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Now that meaz has stepped in and addressed what you are experiencing....... Well let's just say his Gen1 is yanking way more than you are (any of us, for that matter) and with similar exhaust configuration. Even the same tuner.

I'd follow his lead



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I need to do some research I guess... I got my SCTX4 and 5-Star tune package through Stage 3 Motorsports... Anyone know what the process of getting revised/updated tunes is with them? I'm thinking I maybe should have just gone directly through 5-Star but Stage 3 was having a sale on the device/tune package and I jumped on it to save a few bucks.
They work closely. I assume you could contact 5* direct.
 

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Cheese n' Rice meaz don't show that rig on an RV forum! The weight police will be on you like stink on cat poop demanding that you get a tonner asap and preferably with DRW!
 
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