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Discussion Starter #1
So I had an issue with my 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD(2.8L I4 turbo diesel) a couple of weeks back. The engine started knocking(more like banging) while I was towing and it wouldn't idle once I got it pulled off the road. At first i was certain that an exhaust valve had dropped into one of the cylinders as they tend to do on these engines. Once I got it opened up I found out that the exhaust cam had skipped on the timing belt which resulted in the valves hitting the pistons which took out two of the rocker arms on the 2nd cylinder.

There was a moment of relief knowing that the valve didn't **** up the head, piston and possibly the sleeve. The rocker arms are designed to fail for this exact type of scenario and they did exactly as they should have. The pistons and valves look fine.

Well, since I had the head off I figured I would freshen it up with new valves so I could get many more reliably miles out of this motor. I brought it to a shop in SLC and it turns out that the head(which is aluminum) had 4 visible cracks between the intake/exhaust valve seats on 3 of the 4 cylinders. So now the guy I brought the head to is telling me that it is going to cost so much to fix(weld the cracks, resurface, plus the cost of new seats and valves) that I will be approaching the price of a new head, which is $1700. That, plus new head gasket, rocker arms, new timing belt and tensioner and whatever other misc crap to get it back together will cost me ~$3000 all in.

I could also just bolt the current head back on and hope it doesn't blow up for a few years. That will still run me $1200 for the new gasket, rockers, Timing belt, etc.

So now I am faced with a dilemma. Do I:

1. Put $3000 into this jeep that might be worth $6-7k in running condition.
2. Half ass it and just try to get it to limp along for $1200?
3. Part the fucker out and buy something else? It has an ARB bull bar, Detroit truetracs + 4.10 gears in both axles, skid plates, rock rails, Wrangler Rubicon wheels with fairly fresh 32" Duratracs and some engine mods that might be worth a few bucks.

This was it from a few years ago to give you an idea:

164310
 

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Option 3, order a new Bronco.
 

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I'm NOT saying to ignore the math. Certainly not completely. But I finally reached a point in my life where the math doesn't always jive with my personal passions.

Hypothetical example:

I come across a mechanically sound Diesel pick up truck. An older pre-egr Era Cummins.

No rust. Body pretty clean. Drive train excellent. But it's old and the interior is shagged.

On paper, the truck just isn't worth much money. But it's fills a gap that I occasionally need and I can get it for a song and a dance.

But to REALLY enjoy the truck the few times I am using it, I want to be comfortable and even pampered a bit.

$6000 will put a brand new custom interior (upholstery guy) and a modern sound system with a fair amount of sound deadening thrown in.

Add to that a set of nice tires ($1200) and some fresh shocks. (600)

The "math" says the upgrades are going to cost close to what the truck is worth.

See what I mean?

But look at it another way:

For less than $10k I can have a heavy haul, heavy tow, WORKHORSE, incredibly comfortable and nice from the cockpit.

So, back to your dilemma.......You have a mission (desire) to fill with the appropriate vehicle. There's a value equation you have to weigh. When it's all said and done, what matters MOST is if you can sit behind the wheel and feel GREAT while you are doing whatever it is that you wanted to do.

I just know me. If I'm truly having a blast, the math is different than it is if I'm less than having a blast. If I'm going Jeeping, then I'm figuring out how to get a jeep to make me say "heck yea! Worth every penny I spent"

If that's not going to be how I feel, then I'm not wasting my time, effort, resources.

I probably didn't help.



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The bigger question I'd be considering... if you throw that money into it, how many years/miles do you expect to get? And do you expect to get that amount of time/mileage out of the rest of the vehicle? Being a Jeep, you can expect it to continue being a maintenance pig.
 

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Do you really use it much as a second vehicle? If you do and enjoy it, fix it.

If you don’t get much use out of it or are ready for something else, part it out.


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Discussion Starter #6
I'm NOT saying to ignore the math. Certainly not completely. But I finally reached a point in my life where the math doesn't always jive with my personal passions.

Hypothetical example:

I come across a mechanically sound Diesel pick up truck. An older pre-egr Era Cummins.

No rust. Body pretty clean. Drive train excellent. But it's old and the interior is shagged.

On paper, the truck just isn't worth much money. But it's fills a gap that I occasionally need and I can get it for a song and a dance.

But to REALLY enjoy the truck the few times I am using it, I want to be comfortable and even pampered a bit.

$6000 will put a brand new custom interior (upholstery guy) and a modern sound system with a fair amount of sound deadening thrown in.

Add to that a set of nice tires ($1200) and some fresh shocks. (600)

The "math" says the upgrades are going to cost close to what the truck is worth.

See what I mean?

But look at it another way:

For less than $10k I can have a heavy haul, heavy tow, WORKHORSE, incredibly comfortable and nice from the cockpit.

So, back to your dilemma.......You have a mission (desire) to fill with the appropriate vehicle. There's a value equation you have to weigh. When it's all said and done, what matters MOST is if you can sit behind the wheel and feel GREAT while you are doing whatever it is that you wanted to do.

I just know me. If I'm truly having a blast, the math is different than it is if I'm less than having a blast. If I'm going Jeeping, then I'm figuring out how to get a jeep to make me say "heck yea! Worth every penny I spent"

If that's not going to be how I feel, then I'm not wasting my time, effort, resources.

I probably didn't help.



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Excellent points. And up until now I have very much felt this was a vehicle i was passionate about. I put a lot of sweat equity into it and did everything by the book. <30000 miles ago I did the timing belt, arp head studs and brand new rocker arms. Probably $1200 just in parts. Then it turns around and kills my rockers and takes out the belt.


The bigger question I'd be considering... if you throw that money into it, how many years/miles do you expect to get? And do you expect to get that amount of time/mileage out of the rest of the vehicle? Being a Jeep, you can expect it to continue being a maintenance pig.
100%. Part of why I’m worried about reinvesting in it.

That said, aside from the motor, its in solid shape for a 15 year old vehicle. Brakes are new, ball joints are new, etc.

Do you really use it much as a second vehicle? If you do and enjoy it, fix it.

If you don’t get much use out of it or are ready for something else, part it out.


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We were driving it basically everyday. Diesel was cheaper than gas here and it was getting ~25 mpg average. The F150 has basically sat for the last 6 months except for camping trips. During the week the Jeep is my wifes daily since its so tiny and easy to park.
 

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If you like the Jeep (and it appears that, underneath it all, you do) since you're this far in I'd just go whole hog and spend the 3 grand and roll out with it.

If it were me and I just patched it, STILL having spent a lot of money and time/effort, and it failed again in short order, I'd be mad at myself.

If you don't like it, or it didn't serve the needs you want out of it very well, I might be inclined to patch it then sell it and get what I can to put towards the next toy, or part it out and do the same.

However, as stated, it seems to me that it does what you want it to and you do like it. Regardless of it only being worth that amount of money, it looks nice and clean. I think you'd be hard pressed to replace it for 6 grand with something that nice.

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Discussion Starter #9
Then you have one far more important consideration. What does the wife want?
Ha. We both have a love/hate relationship with it. It's a quirky rig that has its issues and needs more attention than most cars I would say. And that is just the engine, nevermind the jeep body around it. But its also very compact yet spacious inside, gets solid MPG's, makes great power at 6500' and is a beast in the snow. My wife loves it cause she can park anywhere and it's our "beater." At the same time neither of us fully trust it. If I was to do a long road trip I wouldn't bring it unless I also brought all my tools with me.

If you like the Jeep (and it appears that, underneath it all, you do) since you're this far in I'd just go whole hog and spend the 3 grand and roll out with it.

If it were me and I just patched it, STILL having spent a lot of money and time/effort, and it failed again in short order, I'd be mad at myself.

If you don't like it, or it didn't serve the needs you want out of it very well, I might be inclined to patch it then sell it and get what I can to put towards the next toy, or part it out and do the same.

However, as stated, it seems to me that it does what you want it to and you do like it. Regardless of it only being worth that amount of money, it looks nice and clean. I think you'd be hard pressed to replace it for 6 grand with something that nice.

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I would be hard pressed to replace it with something else for the same price. Other cars with similar mileage, age and capability(IE 4x4 and decent off-road) are probably going to be 8-10k. My question is whether it is worth throwing the money at the Jeep or reinvesting it elsewhere. I wont get that money back from the Jeep, ever. Only in that I could continue to drive it without having a payment.
 

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Based on what I am interpreting in your replies, it hasn't been the most trustworthy vehicle and even if you do fix it, you never know what's going to come next. I know that any kind of replacement vehicle is going to cost more than the fix, or even the difference of parting it out (plus a part out takes time and effort in itself).

Tough call.
 

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Nothing worse than getting stranded at the most inconvenient times. Basically traded my 05 Hemi Cherokee off for the truck as it was doing just that to me, head out to go fishing several times before dawn but end up stranded and not getting to fish..grr
 

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In my world, I don't keep vehicles that I wouldn't feel confident jumping in and driving cross-country with minimal tools and minimal prep. That goes double (at least) where my wife and baby daughter are concerned - especially since the wife is a long way from a wrench-turner.

It's a 13-year-old Jeep that's quickly turning into a money pit. If you're keeping it just to be a 4WD trail type vehicle, that's one thing. If you're going to have the wife driving it on a daily basis, it's time to part it out and upgrade.
 

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How much do you think it's worth by parting out, and how long do you think it would take to sell it all off and make that?

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Discussion Starter #15
How much do you think it's worth by parting out, and how long do you think it would take to sell it all off and make that?

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IDK. Maybe $3000 if I get lucky. The big value items I think would be the ARB Bull bar and axles that already have the 4.10's and truetracs. Problem is the 06 axle does not fit the earlier year jeeps. They went to 4 wheel independent ABS in 06 so the wheel speed sensors and crap are different. So really I would need to find someone with an 06 or 07 KJ.

The other issue is things like wheels/tires skids, rock rails, axles, and the bullbar, which are the higher dollar items are going to be local pickup type things since they are huge and heavy and would cost a fortune to ship. My transmission skid probably weigh north of 70 lbs. Unless someone around here has a Liberty and is interested in lifting it and all that crap, I think I may have trouble moving the parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
In my world, I don't keep vehicles that I wouldn't feel confident jumping in and driving cross-country with minimal tools and minimal prep. That goes double (at least) where my wife and baby daughter are concerned - especially since the wife is a long way from a wrench-turner.

It's a 13-year-old Jeep that's quickly turning into a money pit. If you're keeping it just to be a 4WD trail type vehicle, that's one thing. If you're going to have the wife driving it on a daily basis, it's time to part it out and upgrade.
It's never left me stranded except one time when the alternator died 30 miles into a national forest. That could happen to anyone in any car. It actually did get me out of the forest and into town when the battery finally gave out. I only needed a 5 mile tow back to the house at that point. Luckily it was a diesel and didnt have an ignition system to suck the battery dry.

It's just the idea in the back of my head. There is always this voice saying, when will the day come? And it did come when the cam jumped time. Problem is, I dont know if that was just a total fluke or if I fucked something up when I did the timing belt. Whatever it was, it took 30k miles/2 years for it to happen though.
 

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Lol here you all are talking about confidence... Half of us still drive 3.5s, that seem to magically elevate themselves to air cooled blocks in a matter of seconds with no prior warning....
 

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Can you find a used head?

If you plan on keeping it a long time, who cares about the price of what's in it vs what it sells for?

ALso, your first mistake was thinking a chrysler product would be reliable lol, esp pre Fiat.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Lol here you all are talking about confidence... Half of us still drive 3.5s, that seem to magically elevate themselves to air cooled blocks in a matter of seconds with no prior warning....
Can you find a used head?

If you plan on keeping it a long time, who cares about the price of what's in it vs what it sells for?

ALso, your first mistake was thinking a chrysler product would be reliable lol, esp pre Fiat.
I never thought it would be reliable. It was a turbo diesel suv with solid axle and some decent off-road ability and support. Its like a unicorn and when I found out they existed, I had to have one. Half the money I put in this thing was "preventative maintenance," based on the known issues.

Working on looking for a used head, my worry is just that it won't be in any better shape than mine and then I just bought a shitty used head for no reason. They are a LOT more common in Europe. Chrysler put them in everything the made basically and the black London taxi cabs use this same engine so I am checking out a lead in the UK.

The funny thing is supposedly these engines are not particularly unreliable internationally. People seem to think its the quality of the US diesel oil, fuel and some short cuts Chrysler took specifically with the US versions.
 

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You know what you have right now. Unless you go buy a brand new vehicle, you won't know nearly as much about the condition of your next vehicle as you do about the Jeep. I would vote fix it and keep it
 
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