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Discussion Starter #1
I know 5 star has a large and positive following on here. Does anyone use bank's tuner?
My understanding is that it constantly monitors and adjusts, so it won't harm the engine. The Bank's system seems like it would be a better mouse trap than custom or canned tunes?
Also, does anyone have high miles and a tune?
What kind of MPG can a tuner get you?
 

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What makes you think it's better than a custom tune?

I wouldn't say "can't harm the engine".

What it does, as I understand it, is functions as a boost fooler but does it more intelligently than your average boost fooler device.

It edits the data that the truck is seeing from certain sensors to trick it into adding more boost, but it monitors things like afr and fueling to keep those in check too, instead of the average boost fooler just adding boost and hoping everything else corrects itself.

I think it accomplishes the same things that a custom tune will, but with more parts in the mix (potential points of failure) but it doesn't flash the computer so in the event of warranty claims it may or may not be better for you there.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

I would say, without a doubt, that a competent tuner pulling a few strings is ultimately still "safer" for the engine.

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Yea, I don't see what's so safe about this method of squeezing extra juice from the motor. It's the digital equivalent of deception. Lol



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Discussion Starter #4
What makes you think it's better than a custom tune?

I wouldn't say "can't harm the engine".

What it does, as I understand it, is functions as a boost fooler but does it more intelligently than your average boost fooler device.

It edits the data that the truck is seeing from certain sensors to trick it into adding more boost, but it monitors things like afr and fueling to keep those in check too, instead of the average boost fooler just adding boost and hoping everything else corrects itself.

I think it accomplishes the same things that a custom tune will, but with more parts in the mix (potential points of failure) but it doesn't flash the computer so in the event of warranty claims it may or may not be better for you there.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

I would say, without a doubt, that a competent tuner pulling a few strings is ultimately still "safer" for the engine.

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I honestly don't know if it's better. It sounded like it would be better, since it monitors in real time.
Would a custom tune give you more hp/tq?
also, has anyone used the economy tune? What results are you seeing?
 

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The PCM monitors everything in real time.

A custom tune edits some of the targets of the OEM programming. I.e. asking it for more power via a specific torque request. Fueling and boost targets are edited, limits can be imposed, removed, or changed, shifting can be improved. You can get whatever you want from mild to wild and get tuned for whatever fuel you wanna run. Ethanol blend tunes will give you the largest performance increase. On the newest engines up to 100 extra whp in some cases I believe.

Back to my first sentence, the PCM monitors everything in real time, and you can see everything the PCM is monitoring on your tuning device or a laptop.

The Derringer is essentially lying to the PCM, then monitoring what's coming out of the PCM, and adjusting the falsified information on the fly to try to keep tricking the PCM into doing what the Derringer wants it to.

Nothing a custom tune and the PCM you already have can't do, but with more steps and more components.

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The ONLY reason to choose the Derringer over a tune is if you're scared of warranty issues, buy that it's undetectable, and would try to commit warranty fraud with it.

Otherwise, a tune will be safer, more custom, allow you to tune the trans, more effective, and infinitely adjustable to your liking.

You can have your tuner edit throttle response, tuning, and power to an extent all to your specific truck and your desires. It can be dialed in to the fuel you're actually putting into your tank.

You also buy into the expertise of the tuner and are now able to have them review logged data to help you troubleshoot things with your truck. Such as whether you need new plugs, why you have X issue going on, etc.

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Yeah the derringer is just lying to the PCM by spoofing the MAP and TIP sensor readings. It tells the PCM that it is getting less boost than it wants, which then results in the PCM asking for more boost and likely opening the TB more to get the demanded air load. The problem is, it is now getting more air in reality than the PCM is expecting and so AFR gets thrown off. The PCM adjusts using the long and short term fuel trims to compensate. That's all its doing.

The Derringer is only better than "dumb" foolers because it actually does monitor the OBD port and makes sure everything stays in line. I doubt its unsafe, I just would rather have a real tune with the correct safety's in place to let the PCM keep everything in check.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The ONLY reason to choose the Derringer over a tune is if you're scared of warranty issues, buy that it's undetectable, and would try to commit warranty fraud with it.

Otherwise, a tune will be safer, more custom, allow you to tune the trans, more effective, and infinitely adjustable to your liking.

You can have your tuner edit throttle response, tuning, and power to an extent all to your specific truck and your desires. It can be dialed in to the fuel you're actually putting into your tank.

You also buy into the expertise of the tuner and are now able to have them review logged data to help you troubleshoot things with your truck. Such as whether you need new plugs, why you have X issue going on, etc.

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So this is why everyone likes 5*, the tuner is pretty good?
Is there a tuner(device to load it), not tune, that is superior as far as features, monitoring, etc.??
I had an SCT for a mustang, it was ok at the time. Nice for checking CEL or other lights and issues.
 

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There are only a couple of tuning devices to choose from. They simply allow you to see what is in the PCM TO see. As far as I know they are all capable of seeing the same data. Think of them as an interface, in that respect.

There is the SCT X4, BullyDog BDX which is through SCT, SCT Livewire, and then the devices that HPTuners offers. Oh, and the SCT GTX I think.

I've used the X4 and the Livewire from SCT. The LW has more bells and whistles, but they both accomplish the same task. I think the x4 can display up to 8 items at one time, and the LW 12. If you log with the laptop you can view all 40 items at once if you wish, or you can toggle through other parameters on the smaller device screen.

As far as seeing data, they are more or less the same. My SCT Livewire can display more items at one time due to a larger screen. They will all act as a pass through to view data on the laptop, and they will all allow you to capture data logs and send to your tuner.

I think it's around 40 items that you can configure for it to monitor. You can configure multiple files to display a different set of 40 items. For example, in the past I've had one file dedicated more to engine tuning, and one file dedicated more to trans tuning.

5* also offers a warranty that you can purchase along with tunes to protect you in the event of a failure that is denied warranty work due to tunes.

You can also monitor PCM data with a Bluetooth OBD2 dongle and the Torque Pro app.

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Your last couple of questions we never touched on. I think there are a lot of trucks with tunes that have had them forever.

There have also been trucks gain extra vent holes bone stock early in their life.

I've tuned with everybody, and I've tried all sorts of tunes. Performance, tow, economy, ethanol blends, 87, 93, trans only, etc.

Not a single tune, not a damn one, netted me mpg any better than stock. It was the same way on my old powerstroke. I will say I'm able to have more fun WHILE getting good mpg, but it's never gotten better. If I drive with mileage in mind, I can do just the same stock, tuned, or otherwise.

Don't expect mileage gains to offset the cost of tuning. That's a fairytale.

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Your last couple of questions we never touched on. I think there are a lot of trucks with tunes that have had them forever.

There have also been trucks gain extra vent holes bone stock early in their life.

I've tuned with everybody, and I've tried all sorts of tunes. Performance, tow, economy, ethanol blends, 87, 93, trans only, etc.

Not a single tune, not a damn one, netted me mpg any better than stock. It was the same way on my old powerstroke. I will say I'm able to have more fun WHILE getting good mpg, but it's never gotten better. If I drive with mileage in mind, I can do just the same stock, tuned, or otherwise.

Don't expect mileage gains to offset the cost of tuning. That's a fairytale.

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I did see a massive improvement in my Jeep diesel MPG's when tuned. Went from averaging 25 and maxing at 29 hwy to averaging 29 and maxing at 35 highway. Hand calc'd too. I don't think the older diesels had as much to tinker with like injection timing and and VNT turbos where you could make up a lot of efficiency.
 

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Was there any egr or dpf sort of stuff that was tinkered with?

I don't know about injection timing but the old 7.3 definitely didn't have VNT.

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Was there any egr or dpf sort of stuff that was tinkered with?

I don't know about injection timing but the old 7.3 definitely didn't have VNT.

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Only the EGR. It was pre-DPF/SCR/Urea.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Your last couple of questions we never touched on. I think there are a lot of trucks with tunes that have had them forever.

There have also been trucks gain extra vent holes bone stock early in their life.

I've tuned with everybody, and I've tried all sorts of tunes. Performance, tow, economy, ethanol blends, 87, 93, trans only, etc.

Not a single tune, not a damn one, netted me mpg any better than stock. It was the same way on my old powerstroke. I will say I'm able to have more fun WHILE getting good mpg, but it's never gotten better. If I drive with mileage in mind, I can do just the same stock, tuned, or otherwise.

Don't expect mileage gains to offset the cost of tuning. That's a fairytale.

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Welp...that supports what I was thinking.
 

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Put a Derringer on my '13 Ecoboost about 1 1/2 years ago. Definite difference in power. Up to level 3, fuel economy is about the same. Actually seemed a little better at level 3. Also added the Monster Exhaust. Love the sound. Slightly louder than stock under most conditions, no drone at all and still very quiet when cruising. Get on the gas and it definitely gets louder with sounding like an Import. Everything was an easy install and I love the System. Had extended warranty and didn't want to take any chances on voiding it. Very satisfied with the Banks Setup.
 

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Bought my 2012 Eboost truck (with 145,000 miles) last August. Got the oil tested and a big thumbs up by Blackstone Laboratories before I did anything else. Installed the Banks Derringer & an I Gauge last December. Had a problem with the unit not starting up. Called Banks about it, arranged to bring the truck to them the next day. They spent four hours on it, removed and replaced the bad tuner, added a second I Gauge & mount (retail cost ~$320), and programmed them both to show the data I wanted. Total cost was about $60! Mileage did not improve, but when you press it up to level 6 that ***** gets up and scoots. Rated at 440hp/560ftlbs on 91 octane, all the data I could want, programmable for different tire sizes, and it was built locally by a company that has lead the industry for half a century.
 

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I don't think anybody is saying they don't turn up the power or that they aren't effective, there's just literally nothing about it that's better than a custom tune, unless you buy that it's warranty friendly.

Other than that, there's nothing this can do that tuning can't, and there are some things tuning CAN give you that this can't.

It's by far the best boost fooler on the market though. It seems to me that the OP is/was under the impression that this can do something that tuning can't, or that it can accomplish better power adding. We're making sure he's not under those false impressions.

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Discussion Starter #20
I don't think anybody is saying they don't turn up the power or that they aren't effective, there's just literally nothing about it that's better than a custom tune, unless you buy that it's warranty friendly.

Other than that, there's nothing this can do that tuning can't, and there are some things tuning CAN give you that this can't.

It's by far the best boost fooler on the market though. It seems to me that the OP is/was under the impression that this can do something that tuning can't, or that it can accomplish better power adding. We're making sure he's not under those false impressions.

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No, I was just curious what the difference was and why people loved custom tunes. Banks seems to be very reputable, they just decided to go in a different direction than other tune companies.
 
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