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Discussion Starter #41
Second post has been edited with a DropBox link to my files near the bottom. This includes dyno runs and datalogs only. You will need WinPep 7 or 8 from Dynojet, and SCT Livelink for the logs. Enjoy.
 

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Of course they do. They also go back and delete long post quotes to keep threads clean. Think about the goats! What would the goats do?

I guess I just don't see it as a problem. This is what I see.

Plenty nice and tidy. TT shows a portion of it and it's all I've ever known.


Baaaaaaaaaaa
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Haha, well if all you ever use is TT, I can understand why now lol. I figured as much though.

On web view, it was just super long quote like my original post. Like long cat. Please dont post longcat though. This thread should stay clean. Google it if curious.

Baaaaaa
 

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That low end hit is my drug of choice. Probably comes from being a diesel guy at heart. If it wasn't for that exact personality trait of the Ecoboost motor (both 2.7 & 3.5) I'd probably still be pulling up to the green handle pump.

But, as you so eloquently explained, it's something the owner AND the tuner has to be careful with. I also believe your suspicions of what happens when you tune too aggressively down low is far from just an educated guess. (I appreciate the modesty of course, but I think you KNOW. :) )

It's for all those reasons that I chose to have a motor built with the very specific desire to address longevity (mechanical robustness) and possibly leveraging that intoxicating (to me) low end hit. While I've stated, ad nauseum, that I have no numbers I'm chasing, I DO daydream about the feeling from the cockpit of a 3.5 that can safely be let loose down low.

We'll see. I've done what I can to challenge you smart fellas. Lol I know Ryan has done his best on the mechanical side. Tuning is going to be interesting and fun.

Love this thread!



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Discussion Starter #45
I love the way you write things Snakebitten. Just something about you and the way you portay things.

And trust me, though I did limit my boost down low to reduce low end torque, I have no lack of it. 520 ft lbs. When I let it spike during testing, it hit 580 and probably would have been more if I had the timing in it. 520 is plenty for me. My poor AT tires just skip and bark every time I drop gears below 50 mph. So my grin is still large!!!!! :) :) :)

The best part is when I put it in 4 hi and let that STI or 370 think they might take me. Their faces when I'm still next to them or ahead at 80+ is hilarious. Something about a 6000+ lb truck smacking down on these cars just keeps me hitting the button over and over.

I wish I had the funds to build the bottom end and stretch these turbos even more. For now I am ecstatic with what I have, and hope it remains reliable and fun for a long while. Till my next truck...
 

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I agree. I have just finally found what I seek with my tuner on e50. Unfortunately now there is some odd shift behavior, and the tuner thinks it's related to shift schedules with the wbeelspin :/. Maybe I won't be able to have what I seek. But, at about 20 she'll break 'um loose. It's so fun.
That low end hit is my drug of choice. Probably comes from being a diesel guy at heart. If it wasn't for that exact personality trait of the Ecoboost motor (both 2.7 & 3.5) I'd probably still be pulling up to the green handle pump.

But, as you so eloquently explained, it's something the owner AND the tuner has to be careful with. I also believe your suspicions of what happens when you tune too aggressively down low is far from just an educated guess. (I appreciate the modesty of course, but I think you KNOW. :) )

It's for all those reasons that I chose to have a motor built with the very specific desire to address longevity (mechanical robustness) and possibly leveraging that intoxicating (to me) low end hit. While I've stated, ad nauseum, that I have no numbers I'm chasing, I DO daydream about the feeling from the cockpit of a 3.5 that can safely be let loose down low.

We'll see. I've done what I can to challenge you smart fellas. Lol I know Ryan has done his best on the mechanical side. Tuning is going to be interesting and fun.

Love this thread!



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Baaaaaaaaaaa
 

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So question: Will new heads buy you much with these turbos? It doesnt seem like there are any volumetric efficiency losses as you increase in RPM on the custom OEM+ turbo tune. You run pretty much the same boost from start to finish and the Air flow trends in a pretty straight line right to the end of the pull. I would have thought if the heads were restrictive they airflow would crap out up top while boost stayed the same.

My jeep does this. The MAP is at 2400 mbar from 2000-4000 rpm but the MAF readings flatline the last 800 rpm and things get really smokey.
Once upon a time RMB Ryan said...

"We have discussed some of our information pertaining to the increase in port flow however discussing actual CFM numbers is not something myself or many shops like to share. The cfm numbers actually don’t tell you much other than the percentage increase at lift over what they were flowed at prior on the same flow bench. Always make sure you are having the heads flow benches at a standard 28” depression. This is where some shops get you and flow 28 on stock head, then port them and bang it up to a 32 or higher depression favoring false numbers.

We pick up 60-100% over stock with a pocket port alone without a valve job. For the full porting, custom valves, and all the small things many do it is 100% without question that cams are the next restriction. For myself before the EFR turbo setup I ran the GT turbos for a few weeks or months and the same bolt on setup I had on earlier stock motor.

we went from flowing in the 55 lb/min range to 7 lb a min over the 60 that the GT turbos are rated for. So 67 lb/min on 93 at 12 degrees and 18 psi. We are picking up 100% gains and the latest cams will hopefully get us from 87 lb/min on pump gas low boost on efrs to 100 lb/min with a bit more timing and 30 psi. Truck is in its street attire and we don’t plan to change that on this, however the future holds much less driveline loss since my truck is setup to increase driveline losses the more portentoal air we flow and higher wheel speed we take it. Hence 87 lb/min and 601 rwhp SAE corrected

Valve job is critical as is chamber design and piston selection. Also, at 60 lbs on the seat the stock springs cannot take much boost so spring kits will keep harmonics and valve train from failure. It is a must just as a forged bottom end is to prevent failures"

Found here...

https://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/89-tifosi-performance/57129-we-building-another-470rwhp-ecoboost-post1084017.html #post1084017

I'd say the gains from ported heads are fairly significant.
 

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I know I don't need to muddle up this thread. I promise this is the last off topic post to this thread. Probably.

I've said it once, I'll say it again:

BK for prez.

Baaaaaaaaaaa
 

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In all fairness, the Ryan quote above is a considerable LEAP in scope from the very very specific intents, and what's thoroughly addressed in this threads opening post.

Or as I understand it, this thread was directly aimed at completely unpacking the Gen1 Ecoboost with the upgraded GT (or "oem+") turbos. (and the historically recalled controversy on this forum pertaining to this package)

In that context, Ryan's quote about potential performance gains by massaging the heads would, in my opinion, not really relate. In fact, included in that statement was a significant amount of additional custom work beyond just cleaning up the heads. It even addressed turbos that are apples to oranges with the GT's.

*****
Edit: I just re-read the quote and I'm wrong about it. It seems he did make comments limited to gains made with just GTs and whatever a pocket port is. I won't delete this post, but it's now retractable in part.
*****

I'm all for the pursuit of performance and perhaps there are appreciable gains with headwork and GT's. (over my head actually) But as soon as you yank them off and send them out to be worked, this is no longer the "long weekend in your driveway" upgrade that I think this thread is convincingly supporting as a real world possibility.

I know if I'd had a set in a box in the garage because the previous hullabaloo had me second guessing my initial excitement, I would now be preparing the barn for the swap! (I would be firing up the BBQ pit to entice a buddy or two to lend me a hand, of course. I ain't crazy)

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So question: Will new heads buy you much with these turbos? It doesnt seem like there are any volumetric efficiency losses as you increase in RPM on the custom OEM+ turbo tune. You run pretty much the same boost from start to finish and the Air flow trends in a pretty straight line right to the end of the pull. I would have thought if the heads were restrictive they airflow would crap out up top while boost stayed the same.

My jeep does this. The MAP is at 2400 mbar from 2000-4000 rpm but the MAF readings flatline the last 800 rpm and things get really smokey.
Brett will be able to throw whatever he wants into this thread from my build once the truck is back on the street. My goal is to push the OEM+ Turbo's as far as I can with the crap gas we have north of the border. I don't want to clog this thread up with my build though. I do think some may be interested if they dropped some $$$ on the upgraded turbo's, but may be looking at a motor build in the future.

I will have a RMB motor with ported heads and upgraded springs (stock valves), Truck is full bolt-on otherwise. I'm guessing fuel quality will be the limitation.

We have some decent before data to compare against, so let's see how it all plays out.
 

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hey guys - if you are considering to pick up a set of bolt on F150 turbos, I recommended to do it soon.

This was not the news i hoped to receive yesterday, however BorgWarner / Ford is facing a very bad backorder for these turbos due to lack of housing availability. This backorder could last well into 2019 due to a few factors i can not publically comment on.. I am pretty disappointed to say the least - but we have a very small amount of turbos left in stock, and thats going to be it for a while. just a heads up
 

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hey guys - if you are considering to pick up a set of bolt on F150 turbos, I recommended to do it soon.

This was not the news i hoped to receive yesterday, however BorgWarner / Ford is facing a very bad backorder for these turbos due to lack of housing availability. This backorder could last well into 2019 due to a few factors i can not publically comment on.. I am pretty disappointed to say the least - but we have a very small amount of turbos left in stock, and thats going to be it for a while. just a heads up
Does this have anything to do with the current tariff situation?
 

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This is the best post this forum has seen to date.

Brett, that was extremely well written and laid out. The information and content was extremely helpful and should become a sticky. Very nicely done!

Ryan-
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Thanks Ryan!
 

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Looks like the street price of NIB gts and second hand ones just went up!
 

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My GT's are the centerpiece in my curio cabinet. People who come over often ask about them. I just tell them they're in there as a reminder of the journey we've taken.
Priceless gems I must say.
 

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While you're here being forthcoming with information about tuning instead of keeping all the secrets under wraps, when it comes to your standard bolt ons, intake, downpipes, exhaust, and cac, is there truly anything to be done/updated with the tune?

Assuming one already has a performance tune, of course. I'm not looking for a debate in whether said mods do anything, are cost effective, etc. Just wondering if there is any point in updating a tune for any of those mentioned mods. For example, 5* charges $65 to make a tune update for mods purchased elsewhere. Rightfully so, it takes them time and time is money.

However, is there any point? Is there anything to actually be done with said mods to support them and net even more gains, above what the truck is capable of doing on its own inside the tune parameters with the cooler air, better flow, or what have you that has been introduced?

Baaaaaaaaaaa
 
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