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Catch Cans Explained

19K views 54 replies 23 participants last post by  boatracer  
#1 ·
I'm probably going to get some heat for this, and in no way am I trying to throw any particular vendor under the bus.

I'm really considering a catch can, and if i can get some help on my decision. That would be awesome.

I have experience with catch cans, this is not my first boosted vehicle. I'm having trouble understanding what separates all the catch cans from one another.

The Rx has my attention, but i feel all the extra vac lines are only making that can suck more crap. From my experience the catch can is only "CATCHING" everything coming out of the PCV

before going back into the intake manifold. Again not trying to start drama, just really looking for the right catch can for my truck.
 
#2 ·
At the end of the day, you want to have clean air entering the drivers side valve cover and all of the crap coming out of the passenger side. "Suction " is provided by the intake manifold and the turbo inlets so you have evacuation under all conditions.
 
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#4 · (Edited)
Either one will work fine. Just check out peoples installations and see what works. I wouldn't bother with two cans, the dual valve does the same thing and probably cheaper than two separate ones. Also less hose and stuff with the dual valve. Also it would depend on how long you want to keep your truck. In my eyes it seems to be a cheap mod that will help prevent some issues in both the short term and long.
 
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#5 ·
The dual setups from upr and rx provide for 2 sources of suction (intake manifold as a primary and then the turbo inlet when the intake manifold is under positive pressure). The clean side separator helps keeping the clean side (drivers side) well, clean.
 
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#7 ·
Wouldn't running a single vented catch can eliminate the need to drill all these lines to your stock intake? <img src="http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27637"/>
The only problem with that is that you would not have a vacuum source to evacuate the crank

I love the level gauge though.
 
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#9 ·
But isn't the Crank Case creating all the pressure. If I'm correct PCV valve closes under boost anyway. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
yes it does create pressure and yes the PCV closes under boost. But when it is not under boost the intake sucks on the PCV. And when in boost the drivers valve cover is connected to the drivers turbo suction. So it also has a suction since a turbo inlet will create a slight vacuum.
 
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#10 ·
So what I'm trying to say is that the crank case is always under a vacuum.
 
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#13 ·
You can run a catch can in one of two ways, that is if you want to run one at all. 1: you can run one inline with each side of the PCV lines (making for 2 catch cans, or with one and dual check valves to allow for constant vacuum through the can). 2: you can cap off both of the intake sides (intake manifold and drivers side pre-turbo) and run a catch can like the one you pictured and let it breath to atmosphere. However if you live a state that requires emission testing, #2 will not pass. #1 will. Ideally engines like to run in a vacuum. Much less windage, better ring seat, and overall better performance. Thats why many drag cars run a vacuum pump. They are good for 15-30 extra ponies depending on motor. The PCV system is just to let the engine relive positive pressure in the crank case. Older cars used to just vent the PCV to atmosphere before Al Gore decided on GREENER cars.:p
 
#20 ·
Unfortunately on in our direct injected trucks, you can't clean the back of the valve once it's full of crud. If it was port injected you could run a fuel system cleaner to help, but not a DI engine.
 
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#15 ·
I just installed my RX Monster catch can a week ago. I haven't put many KM's on it yet but drained just over 4oz of crud out it already. I love this thing, I don't know much about motors but think if I can keep this out of engine I will! ?
 
#16 ·
Here is some basic PCV and crankcase evacuation 101, and reading this there is plenty of good info, and the usual misudnerstandings of all the functions of the PCV system (Positive Crankcase Evacuation)

First and most common mistaken assumption is that the PCV system is primarily there to relieve pressure from the crankcase, and that is only one function. The most important is to constantly remove the damaging compounds that are combustion by-products and enter as blow-by. If these are not immediately evacuated, or "suck out and flushed out" of the crankcase while still in a suspended or gaseous state, quickly settle into the oil and contaminate the oil reducing it's ability to protect. Once these compounds settle into the crankcase and oil, it is difficult to remove them. And they consist of this:

Water, released during the intense heat and pressure of the combustion process.

Un-burnt fuel, no fuel in an internal combustion engine burns completely.

Sulfuric Acid, forms when the different compounds mix as they enter.

Abrasive carbon and soot particles.

And other hydrocarbon related compounds.

This training video covers a naturally aspirated engine and how, and why the PCV system is critical to all engines for long life:


If all you do is relieve pressure, then almost all of these nasty compounds remain in the crankcase increasing wear of the internal parts and contaminating the oil so it cannot protect properly.

On race engines, we always use a belt driven vacuum pump (the best possible solution) to assure not only immediate evacuation of these compounds, but we also maintain vacuum on the crankcase to facilitate ring seal (this allows us to run a low tension ring for less friction and parasitic loss) and to add power from eliminating most downward windage pressure on the pistons. Here is a good video of Matt Scranton (have raced w/Scranton Bro's for ages) showing this:


Now, if you eliminate the evacuation suction, all this damaging gunk is remaining in, and accumulating in the crankcase (as the EcoBoost has such a severe issue with). So, venting can only work if your changing oil every week or so depending on the mileage driven, and that is an error so many make as proper PCV system function is not taught to techs anymore, and only us old timers that grew up when it was understand, or in the racing industry it is passed down to some. Far to often we see evac systems disabled and breathers run that only release pressure, and defeat all the other critical functions of the PCV system.

So, on a Naturally Aspirated engine, intake manifold provides this evacuation suction....but with a turbo application, the intake manifold will not provide suction anytime the engine is under acceleration, highway cruise, etc. So ONLY when at idle, deceleration, or very lite throttle is there sufficient vacuum to evacuate (at under 2-3", evacuation halts and the PCV valve in the passenger side valve cover, the "foul" or "dirty" side, so no evacuation can take place. So, as Ford management decided to save money by utilizing a PCV system that can only work properly on a non-turbo engine, most of the time no evacuation takes place, and the crankcase pressure builds until seeking the path of least resistance back-flows out the cleanside inlet into the driverside turbo inlet (cleanside should NEVER flow backwards or you are defeating the principals of evacuation) pushing this concentrated mix of gunk into the inlet tube where the turbo sucks it and pushes it into the CAC (intercooler), where it condenses and accumulates to later be ingested when under heavy acceleration/full boost blowing out spark at the least (causes shudder and misfire and poor fuel economy as this is contaminating the A/F mixture so detonation occurs and the ECU pulls timing as well as less energy is released per explosive event if anything by air & fuel is present.

If more than a tablespoon or so is pushed into a combustion chamber, liquid does not compress, so pistons break, rods bend/break, and catastrophic engine failure results (see NTSB investigation).

So, the RX system was designed (until copied, was the ONLY system that utilized both IM vac and turbo suction to maintain constant evacuation) to use intake manifold vacuum to evacuate when in non-boost, and turbo suction to continue evacuation when in-boost so no matter what, the crankcase is being evacuated. Clean, filtered fresh air enters the drivers side valve/cam cover from the airbox, replaces the foul/dirty vapors being sucked out the passenger side, and uses one-way checkvalves to ensure no boost pressure can enter the crankcase and maintain a constant evacuation of this "gunk".

Let me know if there are other questions, please ask so I can clarify anything confusing. The PCV system is the most misunderstood of any system on modern cars and light trucks, and very few from dealer techs to racers and performance shops understand it. It used to be part of every automotive techs training, but for the past 20 plus years has been ignored, and now with todays direct injection engines, this is more critical than ever.
 
#17 ·
^ now that is some good info.
 
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#19 ·
So much misunderstanding when it comes to PCV systems and proper crankcase evacuation as a whole, especially when forced induction comes into play. We see some of the best known, respected shops that build quality engines and cars with tons of power not have more than the basic's as far as understanding this, and almost no dealer service techs are old enough to have trained when it was taught.

Anyone needing more explanations, just ask in detail.

Merry Christmas all!!!
 
#21 ·
I installed the UPR Dual Valve Catch Can setup a couple weeks ago. Haven't really driven the truck but a handful of times.
Figured I'd check it this morning to see if it was getting anything.
I was shocked.
I'm thinking the drastic temp changes (60s to 20s) my be exaggerating the amount.....but still..???
Glad this crap isn't going in the engine.
 
#22 ·
I installed the UPR Dual Valve Catch Can setup a couple weeks ago. Haven't really driven the truck but a handful of times.
Figured I'd check it this morning to see if it was getting anything.
I was shocked.
I'm thinking the drastic temp changes (60s to 20s) my be exaggerating the amount.....but still..???
Glad this crap isn't going in the engine.
View attachment 28023
Is that a honey milkshake?
 
#23 ·
Great info. I actually live 10 miles from UPR and will stop by to look at their setup. I'm curious if the crud builds up as much down here in south Florida where the temps average in the 80's. I still get hesitation on acceleration after sustained high speed driving even with the Ford TSB for the intercooler applied. Not the plugs, I have 1K on a new set of SP534's gapped to .032.
 
#24 ·
The crud is greater in cold temps below 45*F, but FL still has cold nights so yes, this shows the flaw in the ecoboost PCV system that allows this. Understand, only one company did the R&D, spent the time and the money for the correct designs and routing and developed this solution...it was not until others complained about the other brand that they copied RX to come out with a similar solution, and that cannot work correctly unless drilling is done.
 
#25 ·
Hey Tuner Boost. I noticed the "other" company has come out with new CSS routing to the airbox with drilling. Their CSS comes off the drivers side valve cover that RX caps off but it's the same cavity as the oil filler cap that Rx uses for it's CSS. What's that old saying about imitation???

Sincerely yours.
 
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#26 ·
And, I believe they had the clean side T'd into the dirty side until they finally realized that wouldn't work.
 
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#27 ·
Correct. If they are going to the top portion (filtered portion) of the air box with the CSS then their solution will work as well now. The way they did the "no-drill" would defeat a good portion of the PCV system correction. I guess it is flattering, but for months I offered to help them and work together, but their stance was to "drive us out of the market" instead of a partnership that all could benefit from. That's business I guess, just not something I could imagine with a good conscience. Anyone with that system, look close on how this works to improve how it is routed. If your "T"d together like they were showing I suggest changing to get the most out of it. Cheers!!
 
#28 ·
After a lot of reading I've decided I would like to add a catch can to my truck. I will purchase the RX can. Question: are the instructions good enough, so I could do this myself? I'm Definatilly mechanically inclined, but may struggle with terminology. (Abbreviations) I've had quite a few questions about this, but didn't wish to start a fight. Still not totally sure about very cold temps, and this system working. (Insulated wrap) it's -12 deg right now.
 
#29 · (Edited)
The instructions and diagram are easy to follow.

Takes maybe 30 min. Mine freezes up but I just quickly take the can off and put it in the garage for the night to thaw it. I do it about every fill up. Only takes 5 min to remove and install again.

Tracy should be getting the insulated wrap out and we shall see if it helps. Lots of skepticism but I think as long as you keep on top of draining it and only a little in the bottom the insulation should be enough to thaw it.
 
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#30 ·
I was going to think o a way of putting it in the engine bay instead of in front of the radiator where it is always seeing sub zero temps while driving in the North during the winter.
 
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#31 ·
That's going to be my next move if the insulation doesn't work.
 
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#32 ·
I installed my RX Monster can about 2 weeks ago, thinking how to deal with a frozen can. I'm going to try this, a small/medium plastic pail with some small bungee cords. Pop the hood and submerge the catch can in hot water, hook the bungee cord(s) somewhere to hold the small pail o hot water in place. Go inside where its warm and wait 10-15 minutes and hopefully the catch can contents will have melted. Remove the small pail of hot water and empty your catch can. Might work, just a thought. If you fall asleep you will have a bucket of ice around your catch can, use the bungee cord to hold the hood down as you drive. :D
 
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#34 ·
All that removal etc . Just to thaw the catch can doesn't sound fun. How about purchasing a condensate line heater for heating products for a furnace and wrap it around it for the winter and plug it in since we plug in a block heater.
 
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