[Rhydon]

Like the title states, oh so very close. I live in Iowa so (obviously) e85 is everywhere. My only real hesitations are economy and testing, this being my daily driver. Basically how much milage should I expect to be sacrificed to the corn gods when just driving it normally and should I be testing the e85 on every fill-up? I see you can get a gauge but it doesn't seem like most people do that.

Edit: finally came across the "Calling all e30 tunes" thread. I feel like this is a must read for anyone considering ethanol, a TON of good info in there. Hopefully this isn't a dumb question, would there be any harm in filling up 30 gals (I have 36 gal tank) and using a gauge to check the ethanol content, using the last 6 gallons to correct if necessary? I don't know why I am so against testing 😅

 

[Arkansas Eco]

OK, I'm the resident smartalec so I feel I should ask -
Why did you not ask this question on the 'calling all e30 tunes' thread ?
Is the last post on that thread just old ? If so I understand.
I wish I knew the answer.

 

[Rhydon]

The last post is from 2019 and I don't want to be that guy, plus I didn't see that thread till this was already posted however I'm still looking for insight.

 

[FanaticalKilla]

Ethanol has 30 percent less energy then gasoline. So expect to 21 percent or so less efficient if your running E30 then running regular fuel.

 

[N4HHE]

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) says "The energy content of ethanol is about 33% less than pure gasoline."

For E10: 0.9 * 1 + 0.1 * 0.67 = 0.967 of pure gasoline
For E30: 0.7 * 1 + 0.3 * 0.67 = 0.901 of pure gasoline

(0.901 - 0.967) / 0.967 = -0.068

Expect 6.8% poorer MPG with E30 vs E10.

Agree with the admonition to test for ethanol content. Friends tell me E85 never has 85%. That by law it can be 70% but in practice it can be much less.

 

[Rhydon]

For E10: 0.9 * 1 + 0.1 * 0.67 = 0.967 of pure gasoline
For E30: 0.7 * 1 + 0.3 * 0.67 = 0.901 of pure gasoline

(0.901 - 0.967) / 0.967 = -0.068

Expect 6.8% poorer MPG with E30 vs E10.

If this is the case sounds like I'm all in.

Agree with the admonition to test for ethanol content. Friends tell me E85 never has 85%. That by law it can be 70% but in practice it can be much less.

Agreed 100%. I guess what I am hoping for (lol) is for someone to say "testing seriously isn't a big hassle becaue xyz. I've been driving a daily e30 or e50 mix for however many miles." I know those people are on this forum becaue I see posts about it scattered here and there. I know in the end I'm just going to have to dive in head first and test the waters.

 

[Rhydon]

Ethanol has 30 percent less energy then gasoline. So expect to 21 percent or so less efficient if your running E30 then running regular fuel.

Is it this simple? Just asking because I honestly do not know the answer.

 

[mass-hole]

Is it this simple? Just asking because I honestly do not know the answer.

I think N4HHE has it a bit more right. Regular gas is typically E10 anyways. So when you blend to E30 you are really only adding 20% more ethanol, which is 66% as energy dense. So you are only losing 33% of the 20% vs regular E10 gas, which works out to about 7%.

If you were going E0 to E30 then it would be more like 10%

 

[mass-hole]

Also, what is your base fuel in Iowa? 91 E10? If that is that case then you are really only going to achieve something like a 96 octane by blending to E30. You are adding 20% ethanol over the 10% you already have.

While its not nothing, its not the same as blending 93 E0 to E30 which would put you at ~100 octane i believe. The problem is, 91 E10 does not use 91 octane gasoline. It uses something less, and the E10 boosts it to 91. So you are effectively blending 30% Ethanol with 88 or 89 octane gas or something like that.

You could achieve the same thing with Boostane. It might not be cheaper but you wouldnt have to screw around with the non-sense of testing the ethanol. The benefits wouldnt quite be the same since you don't get the cooling effect of ethanol but I don't think those numbers are all that large when blending 91 E10 to E30.

 

[Rhydon]

Also, what is your base fuel in Iowa? 91 E10? If that is that case then you are really only going to achieve something like a 96 octane by blending to E30. You are adding 20% ethanol over the 10% you already have.

While its not nothing, its not the same as blending 93 E0 to E30 which would put you at ~100 octane i believe. The problem is, 91 E10 does not use 91 octane gasoline. It uses something less, and the E10 boosts it to 91. So you are effectively blending 30% Ethanol with 88 or 89 octane gas or something like that.

You could achieve the same thing with Boostane. It might not be cheaper but you wouldnt have to screw around with the non-sense of testing the ethanol. The benefits wouldnt quite be the same since you don't get the cooling effect of ethanol but I don't think those numbers are all that large when blending 91 E10 to E30.

Now THIS is the kind of experience I am looking for! I noticed you commenting on other ethanol related threads, glad to have your input mass-hole. I have premium 91 here. 93 is also attainable at a couple of gas stations but the trick is finding a 93 station that also has e85. Maybe that would be easier if I lived in the Des Moines area, but 93 is pretty limited in my area. That being said, I can easily find a pump in my area that has both e85 and 91 E0 available.

Is testing every time at the pump really that big of a deal?
Knowing me, I'm going to want a gauge so I KNOW I am good.

I did message Torrie just before popping back to the forum, ya'll aren't kidding when you say that man is fast. Asked about e30 and e50, sounds like all would be well when I am ready to bite the bullet and just get this show on the road..

 

[Rhydon]

Also, what is your base fuel in Iowa? 91 E10? If that is that case then you are really only going to achieve something like a 96 octane by blending to E30. You are adding 20% ethanol over the 10% you already have.

While its not nothing, its not the same as blending 93 E0 to E30 which would put you at ~100 octane i believe. The problem is, 91 E10 does not use 91 octane gasoline. It uses something less, and the E10 boosts it to 91. So you are effectively blending 30% Ethanol with 88 or 89 octane gas or something like that.

You could achieve the same thing with Boostane. It might not be cheaper but you wouldnt have to screw around with the non-sense of testing the ethanol. The benefits wouldnt quite be the same since you don't get the cooling effect of ethanol but I don't think those numbers are all that large when blending 91 E10 to E30.

Now THIS is the kind of experience I am looking for! I noticed you commenting on other ethanol related threads, glad to have your input mass-hole. I have premium 91 here. 93 is also attainable at a couple of gas stations but the trick is finding a 93 station that also has e85. Maybe that would be easier if I lived in the Des Moines area, but 93 is pretty limited in my area. That being said, I can easily find a pump in my area that has both e85 and 91 E0 available.

Is testing every time at the pump really that big of a deal?
Knowing me, I'm going to want a gauge so I KNOW I am good.

I did message Torrie just before popping back to the forum, ya'll aren't kidding when you say that man is fast. Asked about e30 and e50, sounds like all would be well when I am ready to bite the bullet and just get this show on the road..

 

[Rhydon]

Sorry about that double post, as I was submitting the forum server lost connection for a moment and weird things happened lol.

 

[SrpRacing]

You can always test a tank of e30 and see if you like it. No tune is needed to run e30 on your truck. If anything, OAR will just be maxed out and you’d have literally 0 KR.

I’ve ran E30 in my raptor and 11. No issues at all. Makes a huge difference in drivability, especially on hot days.

A tune would just capitalize more on it.

 

[Rhydon]

You can always test a tank of e30 and see if you like it. No tune is needed to run e30 on your truck. If anything, OAR will just be maxed out and you’d have literally 0 KR.

I’ve ran E30 in my raptor and 11. No issues at all. Makes a huge difference in drivability, especially on hot days.

A tune would just capitalize more on it.

Good point. I might just do this.

When running the mix wtih a tune (maybe even without the tune... enlighten me), I know I'll want to be watching KR, is watching the OAR something I'll also want to be doing? What info does that provide me that I might have to act on?

Edit: SrpRacing I just noticed after one more post you will be at an even 2000 Just pointing that out haha

 

[SrpRacing]

Oh…I did not even notice that till now, hahah.

OAR is your Octane Adjust Ratio. To put it in simple terms, it provides you a good idea on if your fuel is adequate. It will always be specific to who wrote the tune, and/or how the tune was designed. No two trucks will be the same.

This ratio allows the calibration to use a multiplier which either advances/retards on-top of the base timing tables. Hence the performance difference when running 87 to 91. Overall it uses KR feedback to determine fuel quality for the calibration.

SCT
Negative OAR - Good.
Positive OAR - Bad/Ok.

There are others who can explain it far better than me.

 

[mass-hole]

Now THIS is the kind of experience I am looking for! I noticed you commenting on other ethanol related threads, glad to have your input mass-hole. I have premium 91 here. 93 is also attainable at a couple of gas stations but the trick is finding a 93 station that also has e85. Maybe that would be easier if I lived in the Des Moines area, but 93 is pretty limited in my area. That being said, I can easily find a pump in my area that has both e85 and 91 E0 available.

Is testing every time at the pump really that big of a deal?
Knowing me, I'm going to want a gauge so I KNOW I am good.

I did message Torrie just before popping back to the forum, ya'll aren't kidding when you say that man is fast. Asked about e30 and e50, sounds like all would be well when I am ready to bite the bullet and just get this show on the road..

I have no idea if its a big deal. The closest E85 station to me is 4 hours away

But my point is for a measly 96 octane, dealing with the measurement sounds a bit annoying.

 

[N4HHE]

Octane-rating (AKI, not "octane") mixes linearly same as the equations I posted earlier.

Lets assume E10 and E85 really are 10% and 85%. Correct the numbers based on your test results.

I don't see AKI listed on E85 pumps around here but most references say 104 AKI if it really is 85%. It might be 100 AKI for lesser proof.

To mix E10 and E85 for E30:

0.9 gasoline + 0.1 ethanol + X * ( 0.15 gasoline + 0.85 ethanol ) = ( 1 + X ) * (0.70 gasoline + 0.30 ethanol)

After much fun math: add 0.364 gallons of E85 to 1.0 gallons of E10 to make E30.

A = 0.90 for 90% gasoline in E10
B = 0.15 for 15% gasoline in E85
C = 0.70 for 70% gasoline in E30

( A - C ) / ( C - B ) = ( 0.90 - 0.70 ) / ( 0.70 - 0.15 ) = 0.363636363636364

1.0 gallons of 87 AKI plus 0.364 gallons of 104 AKI E85:
(1.0 * 87 + 0.364 * 104) / ( 1.0 + 0.364 ) = 91.5 AKI

Some say E100 is 107 AKI and 85 AKI is the base gasoline used. That produces 87.2 AKI for E10, 103.7 AKI for E85, 91.6 AKI for E30.

87 AKI E10 needs 84.7 AKI E0
89 AKI E10 needs 87.0 AKI E0
91 AKI E10 needs 89.2 AKI E0
93 AKI E10 needs 91.4 AKI E0

 

[snakebitten]

That made my brain hurt.

You know too much. Lol

 

[Rhydon]

To mix E10 and E85 for E30:

0.9 gasoline + 0.1 ethanol + X * ( 0.15 gasoline + 0.85 ethanol ) = ( 1 + X ) * (0.70 gasoline + 0.30 ethanol)

After much fun math: add 0.364 gallons of E85 to 1.0 gallons of E10 to make E30.

A = 0.90 for 90% gasoline in E10
B = 0.15 for 15% gasoline in E85
C = 0.70 for 70% gasoline in E30

( A - C ) / ( C - B ) = ( 0.90 - 0.70 ) / ( 0.70 - 0.15 ) = 0.363636363636364

1.0 gallons of 87 AKI plus 0.364 gallons of 104 AKI E85:
(1.0 * 87 + 0.364 * 104) / ( 1.0 + 0.364 ) = 91.5 AKI

Some say E100 is 107 AKI and 85 AKI is the base gasoline used. That produces 87.2 AKI for E10, 103.7 AKI for E85, 91.6 AKI for E30.

87 AKI E10 needs 84.7 AKI E0
89 AKI E10 needs 87.0 AKI E0
91 AKI E10 needs 89.2 AKI E0
93 AKI E10 needs 91.4 AKI E0

Aaaaaand this is why I leave these matters to those capable of such things.

Thank you N4HHE. I don't know if I could have even asked for a more thorough response.

 

[TOWMA8R]

If this is the case sounds like I'm all in.



Agreed 100%. I guess what I am hoping for (lol) is for someone to say "testing seriously isn't a big hassle becaue xyz. I've been driving a daily e30 or e50 mix for however many miles." I know those people are on this forum becaue I see posts about it scattered here and there. I know in the end I'm just going to have to dive in head first and test the waters.

E30-40 Commute daily. 20k miles and counting