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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Like the title states, oh so very close. I live in Iowa so (obviously) e85 is everywhere. My only real hesitations are economy and testing, this being my daily driver. Basically how much milage should I expect to be sacrificed to the corn gods when just driving it normally and should I be testing the e85 on every fill-up? I see you can get a gauge but it doesn't seem like most people do that.

Edit: finally came across the "Calling all e30 tunes" thread. I feel like this is a must read for anyone considering ethanol, a TON of good info in there. Hopefully this isn't a dumb question, would there be any harm in filling up 30 gals (I have 36 gal tank) and using a gauge to check the ethanol content, using the last 6 gallons to correct if necessary? I don't know why I am so against testing 馃槄
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The last post is from 2019 and I don't want to be that guy, plus I didn't see that thread till this was already posted however I'm still looking for insight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
For E10: 0.9 * 1 + 0.1 * 0.67 = 0.967 of pure gasoline
For E30: 0.7 * 1 + 0.3 * 0.67 = 0.901 of pure gasoline

(0.901 - 0.967) / 0.967 = -0.068

Expect 6.8% poorer MPG with E30 vs E10.
If this is the case sounds like I'm all in.

Agree with the admonition to test for ethanol content. Friends tell me E85 never has 85%. That by law it can be 70% but in practice it can be much less.
Agreed 100%. I guess what I am hoping for (lol) is for someone to say "testing seriously isn't a big hassle becaue xyz. I've been driving a daily e30 or e50 mix for however many miles." I know those people are on this forum becaue I see posts about it scattered here and there. I know in the end I'm just going to have to dive in head first and test the waters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ethanol has 30 percent less energy then gasoline. So expect to 21 percent or so less efficient if your running E30 then running regular fuel.
Is it this simple? Just asking because I honestly do not know the answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Also, what is your base fuel in Iowa? 91 E10? If that is that case then you are really only going to achieve something like a 96 octane by blending to E30. You are adding 20% ethanol over the 10% you already have.

While its not nothing, its not the same as blending 93 E0 to E30 which would put you at ~100 octane i believe. The problem is, 91 E10 does not use 91 octane gasoline. It uses something less, and the E10 boosts it to 91. So you are effectively blending 30% Ethanol with 88 or 89 octane gas or something like that.

You could achieve the same thing with Boostane. It might not be cheaper but you wouldnt have to screw around with the non-sense of testing the ethanol. The benefits wouldnt quite be the same since you don't get the cooling effect of ethanol but I don't think those numbers are all that large when blending 91 E10 to E30.
Now THIS is the kind of experience I am looking for! I noticed you commenting on other ethanol related threads, glad to have your input mass-hole. I have premium 91 here. 93 is also attainable at a couple of gas stations but the trick is finding a 93 station that also has e85. Maybe that would be easier if I lived in the Des Moines area, but 93 is pretty limited in my area. That being said, I can easily find a pump in my area that has both e85 and 91 E0 available.

Is testing every time at the pump really that big of a deal?
Knowing me, I'm going to want a gauge so I KNOW I am good.

I did message Torrie just before popping back to the forum, ya'll aren't kidding when you say that man is fast. Asked about e30 and e50, sounds like all would be well when I am ready to bite the bullet and just get this show on the road..
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Also, what is your base fuel in Iowa? 91 E10? If that is that case then you are really only going to achieve something like a 96 octane by blending to E30. You are adding 20% ethanol over the 10% you already have.

While its not nothing, its not the same as blending 93 E0 to E30 which would put you at ~100 octane i believe. The problem is, 91 E10 does not use 91 octane gasoline. It uses something less, and the E10 boosts it to 91. So you are effectively blending 30% Ethanol with 88 or 89 octane gas or something like that.

You could achieve the same thing with Boostane. It might not be cheaper but you wouldnt have to screw around with the non-sense of testing the ethanol. The benefits wouldnt quite be the same since you don't get the cooling effect of ethanol but I don't think those numbers are all that large when blending 91 E10 to E30.
Now THIS is the kind of experience I am looking for! I noticed you commenting on other ethanol related threads, glad to have your input mass-hole. I have premium 91 here. 93 is also attainable at a couple of gas stations but the trick is finding a 93 station that also has e85. Maybe that would be easier if I lived in the Des Moines area, but 93 is pretty limited in my area. That being said, I can easily find a pump in my area that has both e85 and 91 E0 available.

Is testing every time at the pump really that big of a deal?
Knowing me, I'm going to want a gauge so I KNOW I am good.

I did message Torrie just before popping back to the forum, ya'll aren't kidding when you say that man is fast. Asked about e30 and e50, sounds like all would be well when I am ready to bite the bullet and just get this show on the road..
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sorry about that double post, as I was submitting the forum server lost connection for a moment and weird things happened lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You can always test a tank of e30 and see if you like it. No tune is needed to run e30 on your truck. If anything, OAR will just be maxed out and you鈥檇 have literally 0 KR.

I鈥檝e ran E30 in my raptor and 11. No issues at all. Makes a huge difference in drivability, especially on hot days.

A tune would just capitalize more on it.
Good point. I might just do this.

When running the mix wtih a tune (maybe even without the tune... enlighten me), I know I'll want to be watching KR, is watching the OAR something I'll also want to be doing? What info does that provide me that I might have to act on?

Edit: SrpRacing I just noticed after one more post you will be at an even 2000 :cool: Just pointing that out haha
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
To mix E10 and E85 for E30:

0.9 gasoline + 0.1 ethanol + X * ( 0.15 gasoline + 0.85 ethanol ) = ( 1 + X ) * (0.70 gasoline + 0.30 ethanol)

After much fun math: add 0.364 gallons of E85 to 1.0 gallons of E10 to make E30.

A = 0.90 for 90% gasoline in E10
B = 0.15 for 15% gasoline in E85
C = 0.70 for 70% gasoline in E30

( A - C ) / ( C - B ) = ( 0.90 - 0.70 ) / ( 0.70 - 0.15 ) = 0.363636363636364

1.0 gallons of 87 AKI plus 0.364 gallons of 104 AKI E85:
(1.0 * 87 + 0.364 * 104) / ( 1.0 + 0.364 ) = 91.5 AKI

Some say E100 is 107 AKI and 85 AKI is the base gasoline used. That produces 87.2 AKI for E10, 103.7 AKI for E85, 91.6 AKI for E30.

87 AKI E10 needs 84.7 AKI E0
89 AKI E10 needs 87.0 AKI E0
91 AKI E10 needs 89.2 AKI E0
93 AKI E10 needs 91.4 AKI E0
Aaaaaand this is why I leave these matters to those capable of such things.

Thank you N4HHE. I don't know if I could have even asked for a more thorough response.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
OAR can be very different between tunes. The stock tune is very conservative.
What would you say is the best overall way to track your OAR and KR in real time?
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
With an ODB driven device.
These are no longer available, but I use an Ngauge. Can display 6 Pids of your choice. (from better than 100)

You can also do the same with a smartphone or tablet.
Fair enough, I use a BDX. I couldn't find any KR or OAR pid's. Might have to import those later if they aren't already there. Purchasing a couple tunes tonight. I'm diving in.

Edit: BTW thank you for that picture that was actually incredibly helpful to me.
 
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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Just want to give a shout-out to everyone who did/is participating in this thread and to Torrie. I'm finally diving into an e30 and e50 tune And learning a ton about my truck along the way. That's what it's all about right? And beating all the mustangs 馃槅
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I have both tunes in my possession, e30 and e50. Put her back to stock last night and threw in an e30 mix this morning before work just to start getting used to the double fill-up lifestyle and watch what happens to my OAR. Cuz I'm curious.

Decided to purchase a gauge. Never put one in before and I would like to learn something. Plus this is my daily and I tend to overthink my life (ha) so I like that piece of mind. Once I get that thrown in I'll finally start some revisions.

I CAN'T WAIT. MMMMMM CORN 馃尳.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
I can give a quick update here on my end, I've been away from the forum for a while due to moving into a new place/having a kid. Been dabbling thru the threads here and there again when I find some time. I've been daily driving an Unleashed e50 tune with a BAP (and other fun items) for a couple months and I have had no issues. After completely revising the e30 I just wanted more but honestly even the e30 is like driving a rocket. Since running ethanol in general the ticks and clicks my truck likes to notoriously aggravate me with are still there, yet I would say fewer and further in-between. Honestly, I could write a short book with all I've learned about my truck since originally posting. And not for nothing, it's insane how quick this thing is. I plan to do a lot more once I can get my personal life back underneath my feet 馃槄
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Performance wise, definitely a noticable difference. Not as drastic as the jump from 91 to e30 IMO. First time I gave her a WOT after my first e30 revision, let's just say I wasn't prepared haha. Also, economy loss (in my experience) between 91 and e30 wasn't too bad. I only lost probably 1mpg overall. Now that I run the e50, that economy loss is much more notible. 91 octane I was getting about 17 or 18 in town, 20 on the highway depending on conditions. Now with the e50 I average about 13-14 in town, 16 or 17 on the highway depending on conditions. For someone that wants a fair amount more power at minimal economy loss, I will hype e30 all day. Personally I like the 50 mix for the extra power and for personal truck reasons I like running the higher concentration of ethanol. E30 is the best middle ground all day long. When it gets colder outside again, I have not decided if I am going to run 30 or go back to 91 for the winter. No way my truck starts on some of the cold mornings we have with half ethanol in the tank. Hope that answers your question
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
What is the octane rating of E30 mixed using 91 as the base? Like 98?

Im really curious to see what using Boostane to bump 91 to 98 does. I wonder if its similar or if there are still added benefits from the cooling of the ethanol. Increasing ethanol by 20% is not a huge change in the evaporative cooling assuming you are starting with E10 to begin with.

Edit, oh wait, I already did the calcs earlier in this thread. 91 E0 to E30 is like 98 and 91 E10 to E30 is 96

I might give this a try next time. Just dump a whole bunch of boostane in my truck to see how it runs. I know that on 94 octane there is a difference vs 91, like maybe 1-2 degrees of additional timing, but since I am normally running while towing only I don't get to play around and see how quick it is.

The only thing that sucks is to go from 91 to 98 I need like half a bottle of boostane for 18 gallons, which is like $15 worth. Its almost a dollar a gallon.
Hey, a dollar a gallon is a lot better than $5 for 87 or whatever else 馃槄 I'm curious what your thoughts would be after tuning/running the 91 + octane booster and then tuning/running a comparative mix of ethanol with the same octane (AKI - gonna say this before someone jumps on me but I'm going to continue using "octane" to keep things simple). I am no tuner but if you did something like that and tried to put a couple findings into layman's terms I would definitely follow that thread. Like you said the internal temps would be a little higher with the 91+, I know that there are other benefits/consequenses to running ethanol vs higher octane fuel in general however if a truck tuned for 96 octane with an octane booster dragged the same truck tuned for an e mix of the same octane level, I wonder what the numbers would be.

I'm guessing you wouldn't have the economy loss numbers an e mix gives you if you ran the booster instead? There are way more variables than my non-tuner brain can handle all at one time haha.

edit: I'm sure it's obvious by this post but I have no experience with running an octane booster
 
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