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Is it this simple? Just asking because I honestly do not know the answer.
I think N4HHE has it a bit more right. Regular gas is typically E10 anyways. So when you blend to E30 you are really only adding 20% more ethanol, which is 66% as energy dense. So you are only losing 33% of the 20% vs regular E10 gas, which works out to about 7%.

If you were going E0 to E30 then it would be more like 10%
 

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Also, what is your base fuel in Iowa? 91 E10? If that is that case then you are really only going to achieve something like a 96 octane by blending to E30. You are adding 20% ethanol over the 10% you already have.

While its not nothing, its not the same as blending 93 E0 to E30 which would put you at ~100 octane i believe. The problem is, 91 E10 does not use 91 octane gasoline. It uses something less, and the E10 boosts it to 91. So you are effectively blending 30% Ethanol with 88 or 89 octane gas or something like that.

You could achieve the same thing with Boostane. It might not be cheaper but you wouldnt have to screw around with the non-sense of testing the ethanol. The benefits wouldnt quite be the same since you don't get the cooling effect of ethanol but I don't think those numbers are all that large when blending 91 E10 to E30.
 

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Now THIS is the kind of experience I am looking for! I noticed you commenting on other ethanol related threads, glad to have your input mass-hole. I have premium 91 here. 93 is also attainable at a couple of gas stations but the trick is finding a 93 station that also has e85. Maybe that would be easier if I lived in the Des Moines area, but 93 is pretty limited in my area. That being said, I can easily find a pump in my area that has both e85 and 91 E0 available.

Is testing every time at the pump really that big of a deal?
Knowing me, I'm going to want a gauge so I KNOW I am good.

I did message Torrie just before popping back to the forum, ya'll aren't kidding when you say that man is fast. Asked about e30 and e50, sounds like all would be well when I am ready to bite the bullet and just get this show on the road..
I have no idea if its a big deal. The closest E85 station to me is 4 hours away

But my point is for a measly 96 octane, dealing with the measurement sounds a bit annoying.
 

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I know positive OAR is bad, stock tunes can have it.... how much positive is acceptable and where do you start to worry?
87 octane should be an oar of 0 best i can tell. Maybe even slightly negative. At least on a tune using the stock timing tables.

If you +1 you are in rough shape.

I think these trucks could run 85 if you wanted to but it would suck.
 

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Fair enough, I use a BDX. I couldn't find any KR or OAR pid's. Might have to import those later if they aren't already there. Purchasing a couple tunes tonight. I'm diving in.

Edit: BTW thank you for that picture that was actually incredibly helpful to me.
They might be called knock retard and octane adjust ratio/learned octane ratio.
 

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In the OBDLink app I had to manually add the PID for OAR. Don't remember what I did other than enter the numbers then select a "gauge" to display the value. Set the display range to -1 to +1 as it defaulted to -1000 +1000.

I the math post above, late at night, the main equation is correct but needlessly complicated by including both gasoline and ethanol in one. Easier to solve for mixing 90% gasoline with 15% gasoline to get a 70% mixture. Or you will get the same answer mixing 10% ethanol with 85% ethanol to get a 30% ethanol mixture. The gasoline one is the A, B, C, equation.
In my OBDLink app its in the Ford Enhanced Diagnostics addon as Learned Relative Octane Adjustment and its -100% to +100% and the values are inverted. So +100% is a -1
 

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I love the E30 tune I have from Torrie. Both my SHO and my truck (when it was stock) ran with virtually no issues. One thing to note is your injectors and pump will be taxed more heavily. I had my number 2 injector stick wide open (failed) on my SHO. Fortunately, it did it literally in my driveway. Changing it wasn't fun, but a fair bit easier than the trucks. I use the tune sparingly now, and rely on my 91 tune for that added boost.
Whoa! Blast from the past.
 

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What is the octane rating of E30 mixed using 91 as the base? Like 98?

Im really curious to see what using Boostane to bump 91 to 98 does. I wonder if its similar or if there are still added benefits from the cooling of the ethanol. Increasing ethanol by 20% is not a huge change in the evaporative cooling assuming you are starting with E10 to begin with.

Edit, oh wait, I already did the calcs earlier in this thread. 91 E0 to E30 is like 98 and 91 E10 to E30 is 96

I might give this a try next time. Just dump a whole bunch of boostane in my truck to see how it runs. I know that on 94 octane there is a difference vs 91, like maybe 1-2 degrees of additional timing, but since I am normally running while towing only I don't get to play around and see how quick it is.

The only thing that sucks is to go from 91 to 98 I need like half a bottle of boostane for 18 gallons, which is like $15 worth. Its almost a dollar a gallon.
 
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Hey, a dollar a gallon is a lot better than $5 for 87 or whatever else 😅 I'm curious what your thoughts would be after tuning/running the 91 + octane booster and then tuning/running a comparative mix of ethanol with the same octane (AKI - gonna say this before someone jumps on me but I'm going to continue using "octane" to keep things simple). I am no tuner but if you did something like that and tried to put a couple findings into layman's terms I would definitely follow that thread. Like you said the internal temps would be a little higher with the 91+, I know that there are other benefits/consequenses to running ethanol vs higher octane fuel in general however if a truck tuned for 96 octane with an octane booster dragged the same truck tuned for an e mix of the same octane level, I wonder what the numbers would be.

I'm guessing you wouldn't have the economy loss numbers an e mix gives you if you ran the booster instead? There are way more variables than my non-tuner brain can handle all at one time haha.

edit: I'm sure it's obvious by this post but I have no experience with running an octane booster
The problem is I do not have access to ethanol anywhere near me. I would have to drive up into Idaho somewhere I believe. Boostane is my only option.

91 E10 + Boostane to bump to 94 octane only required that I add 1 extra degree of timing global to the OAR adjuster but 91 also was not maxing out my OAR in the first place. The extra degree will put the 94 octane at an OAR of ~0.9 which I am good with. My KR's stay very tight to a 0, which is good in the sense that it doesn't have to go searching very far to find peak timing.

I am also not sure that I necessarily need a ton of octane because my turbos are out of steam just above the stock power levels at my elevation. Stock tune hits about 36 lb/min and my turbos tap out at ~38-40 lbs/min with a tune. I am not pushing air loads much higher than stock even on an all out performance tune. I might be at 320 whp if I am lucky, not like some people pushing 450 whp on 93.
 
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Actually, now that I looked again, there are some stations closer to me. I used to be the only one was up in Idaho Falls which is a decent drive. They still arnt close but 50 minutes each way is better than 3-4 hours each way.

Since a vast majority of the 91 around here is E10, I think I am better off mixing to E30 with 88 E0, but that only gets me to a 95.5 octane. 91 E10 looks to use 88 as its base stock and then is blended with 10% ethanol. So I would bump that from 91 E10 to E30 and arrive at the same place.

I do know of one station on the way to moab that has 91 E0 for all the RZR's and stuff that head down there but its crazy expensive and not close.
 
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I may try to go E50 or E85 on my truck and see what happens. Because I am at 6500’, my turbos are limited to just a hair over stock HP anyways, so my fuel system should keep up assuming I keep the tune roughly stock except for the timing and AFR changes.

stock turbos are good for 48 lb/min and people run that much on the stock fuel system without issue.Stock tune is ~36 lbs. 48/36 = 1.33 or 33% more available fuel than is needed for the stock tune.
So i figure the stock fuel system should have no issue on E85.

I might not even need E85 though since I would be close to stock air loads. I wouldnt be running a ton of boost so I may hit MBT at “octanes” less than E85
 
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