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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
'11 F150 Ecoboost. Stock tune. I had the timing chain, guides, oil pump replaced early this summer. My auto mechanic claimed the phasers were OK, but I'm still getting a cold start rattle. I've been waiting for the mech to do some research, still haven't heard back from him even after doing a checkin a couple weeks ago, so getting ready to get my hands dirty. Went on youtube, found a recording of the cold start rattle, pretty sure it sounds the same as what I've got.

SO.

Anyone know how to tell if it is the phasers without cracking open the truck? If it does turn out to be the phasers, do I have to replace the timing chain and guides again?

I need to get this sorted before the engine eats itself.
 

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2021 Powerboost Platinum FX4 Kodiak Brown
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He replaced the timing chain but not the phasers?

Sounds like something the dealership might do, but independents usually would not risk that

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Independent, runs his own shop, one of his former employees is a master tech at one of the regional Ford dealerships.
 

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Independent, runs his own shop, one of his former employees is a master tech at one of the regional Ford dealerships.
So much for credentials. They should have done the complete job as it's been pretty well documented that simply replacing the chain does not fix this very long-term. Ford tried this at first and had a bunch of people coming back with the same issue. It's my understanding the rattle is almost exclusively made by the phasers themselves.
 
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2021 Powerboost Platinum FX4 Kodiak Brown
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My point was really more based on the fact that to get to that chain you have opened up the 3.5 Ecoboost considerably. Pretty well documented on how much labor is involved.
So especially on an older truck with mileage, you should be tempted to take advantage of the opportunity. All the wear items have that same mileage on them as the offending part.

That's why everyone gets a fresh water pump when they get a timing job. It's right there! :)

It doesn't feel good to type any of this because it's lousy news. But it's got nearly a decade of data behind it.

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2017 F150 XLT, 3.5 ecoBoost, 4 door, Super Crew, Stock
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No way I would have let them do the work unless they replaced phasers, tensioners, water pump and thermostat. Including the components you mentioned in your first post.
They are right there screaming change me!
Sounds like the shop is double dipping.
Go in twice, twice you pay labor.
Live and learn my friend.
 

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Question...Does the timing chain have a hydraulic tensioner in the 3.5 Ecoboost? One time, on a cold day, I remotely started my truck, and I thought I heard a weird sound for the first second or so, but it went away and I have never heard it since..I thought if it was cold, or for some reason the tensioner drained dry overnight and it was freezing out, it might have just taken a second to re-pressurize or maybe a check valve didn't seal?...I have over 40,000 miles since then and haven't heard it again, but I wonder if the rattle isn't from a tensioner rather from a worn timing chain?
 

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I have the same 3.5 Ecoboost initial start rattle happening on my 2018 now has 74K miles on it. It started rattling around 60K miles. It only rattles for 2 seconds. I brought it to the dealer and they updated code and the said it was fixed but it still does the same morning rattle upon start up. The question is should we worry about this? If just left as is will it cause issues?
I definitely would be interested in understanding what might be causing all this. the 3 parts that are talked about are (dry) Phaser, Variable Valve Assembly &Timing Chain. How does this all relate?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have the same 3.5 Ecoboost initial start rattle happening on my 2018 now has 74K miles on it. It started rattling around 60K miles. It only rattles for 2 seconds. I brought it to the dealer and they updated code and the said it was fixed but it still does the same morning rattle upon start up. The question is should we worry about this? If just left as is will it cause issues?
I definitely would be interested in understanding what might be causing all this. the 3 parts that are talked about are (dry) Phaser, Variable Valve Assembly &Timing Chain. How does this all relate?
I don't know anything about the second gen Ecoboosts. I've seen the youtube videos about the TSB - I don't know. Try searching Ford Tech Makuloco and Ford Boss Me. Both master techs, no nonsense. FTM gives a lot of how to videos, FBM is still getting up to speed.
 

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I don't know anything about the second gen Ecoboosts. I've seen the youtube videos about the TSB - I don't know. Try searching Ford Tech Makuloco and Ford Boss Me. Both master techs, no nonsense. FTM gives a lot of how to videos, FBM is still getting up to speed.
I did watch the Ford Boss Me on YouTube. it was extremely helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I did watch the Ford Boss Me on YouTube. it was extremely helpful.
Cool. I'm still stuck with the cold start rattle on older, but as mentioned above, the VCTs weren't changed out. My preference was to have them done, but didn't get asked. :rolleyes:
 

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My 2018 has 51,000 miles. I had the phasers etc all replaced around 25K. Now this problem is already back. I am due to have it to the shop on 9/13. They say they are doing the same work as before. I have spent a lot of time reading on this and do not know what to think. Some say if you keep 4000 mile oil changes it wont return. Some say that doesn't help. Some say it is just a nuisance and wont harm the engine. Some say if left unfixed it will eventually damage the engine. I am under warranty but not much longer.......very concerned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My 2018 has 51,000 miles. I had the phasers etc all replaced around 25K. Now this problem is already back. I am due to have it to the shop on 9/13. They say they are doing the same work as before. I have spent a lot of time reading on this and do not know what to think. Some say if you keep 4000 mile oil changes it wont return. Some say that doesn't help. Some say it is just a nuisance and wont harm the engine. Some say if left unfixed it will eventually damage the engine. I am under warranty but not much longer.......very concerned.
That is a concern I have too. Its $700-$800 in parts if you do it yourself. 10 hour+ job in the shop. Im hoping my chain and tensioners are ok as they were just replaced putting it at $600.
 

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At a minimum I would do the chain and phasers. If other parts are worn, they are adding to the slack in the chain. The tensioner can only take up so much slop. Also, If this has happened more than once to you while under warranty, I'd probably start asking the dealer about a trade-in deal. This is a serviceable part which can have a short life depending on how the engine is treated, but for a daily driver with moderate usage you should be seeing way more than 25K after the timing repair if it's done right.
 

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At a minimum I would do the chain and phasers. If other parts are worn, they are adding to the slack in the chain. The tensioner can only take up so much slop. Also, If this has happened more than once to you while under warranty, I'd probably start asking the dealer about a trade-in deal. This is a serviceable part which can have a short life depending on how the engine is treated, but for a daily driver with moderate usage you should be seeing way more than 25K after the timing repair if it's done right.
I am definitely considering either trading or selling to one of the dealers aggressively buying back and getting into another truck. I wish the 2021s had been on the road long enough to know if this is an issue with them. But Im sure its early for that in most cases.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
At a minimum I would do the chain and phasers. If other parts are worn, they are adding to the slack in the chain. The tensioner can only take up so much slop. Also, If this has happened more than once to you while under warranty, I'd probably start asking the dealer about a trade-in deal. This is a serviceable part which can have a short life depending on how the engine is treated, but for a daily driver with moderate usage you should be seeing way more than 25K after the timing repair if it's done right.
Chain and tensioners were done a month ago. I don't know if the solenoids were replaced. I put my receipt somewhere for safekeeping. So naturally I can't find it now. My mechanic got bad information from his Ford-smart guy, supposedly phasers didn't necessarily need replacing. The truck was already open, I wish he had asked me first instead of just making a judgement call and buttoning it back up. No, not a Ford mechanic. Done with them. I've had too many foul-ups by the local dealerships over the years. I don't trust them, I don't trust the service writers, and I don't trust the regional service manager.

As for being under warranty... laughing right now. 2011 mode year, just shy of 140k miles. I've had the truck for 4 years 60k+ miles at this point. No way am I trading in, especially the more I read about the newer trucks. I'd LIKE to have a newer truck, and am currently driving my wife nuts doing the research, and I'd like to have a third vehicle in our stable as our eldest is learning to drive, but 2021 is so the wrong year to be buying a vehicle new or used. I just need to keep telling myself that each time I start going nuts looking again. :ROFLMAO:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I am definitely considering either trading or selling to one of the dealers aggressively buying back and getting into another truck. I wish the 2021s had been on the road long enough to know if this is an issue with them. But Im sure its early for that in most cases.
I was just looking at an '18 online (car buying craziness even though I keep telling myself not to buy one this year). Decent miles, has what I want, blah blah blah. Then I looked at the Carfax. 1 owner, just had the TSB for the phasers done. Owner traded it in shortly after. So now I'd be worrying about that.
 

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My truck has been solid since 72k Km when they did the chain and phasers. I'm now at 155k km (100k miles) and haven't heard any signs of the rattle come back.

Its a terrible design and I'd never buy another 3.5 ecobust. I'd buy a 2.7 or 5.0.
 
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My truck has been solid since 72k Km when they did the chain and phasers. I'm now at 155k km (100k miles) and haven't heard any signs of the rattle come back.

Its a terrible design and I'd never buy another 3.5 ecobust. I'd buy a 2.7 or 5.0.
Did you do anything differently after the repair to help it hold or are you aware of them using any updated parts ? The service department told me that it was basically going to be the same repair as before.
 

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You would think someone would make a cam phaser delete and just be done with it like they do with the 5.4 and 6.2. Yeah you lose a tiny amount of power up top with it but having the added reliability would easily be worth it
 
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