[JimmyD750]

Call it a rant if you want, but this is what I have witnessed over the last 10 years or so…
Just read an article where a guy says he hit a curb real hard, and the diagnostic computer at the dealer says he needs a new engine and tranny for $22k. Sounds like the stealership needs a new diagnostic computer! That’s the prob with “mechanics” today. They can’t diagnose, they just do what the computer says to do.

I bought a 2012 F150 4x4 platinum Ecoboost with 100k miles in 2018. Usual issues with water in the intercooler, solved by drilling a tiny hole in it (exact size and location is easily found on YouTube). Then the issue with the 10¢ each coil boots to cure misfires.

One day I’m driving to Chicago from Indy after having the truck about a month, and it lost all power and died. Every single warning light came on, along with the “advance Trac” and every readout warning. Got out, looked under hood, found nothing odd. Slammed the hood shut and it started right up. No issues for 2 months.

Same thing began to happen more and more often, and each time had it towed to to one of 3 Ford dealers in Indy. That truck was in the shop at one dealer or another NINE TIMES in 6 months. Sometimes they’d call and say “we got in and it started up, tested it over several days so you’re good to go.” Only to come get it and it wouldn’t start. Each time they said “our diagnostic computers won’t communicate with it”. So they replaced the BCM. Then the ECM. Then replaced a few grounds. None of this was covered under my 4 year/50,000 aftermarket warranty that covers nothing “or wiring related”.

The final verdict? “Sir, there’s something seriously wrong electronically and we don’t have the ability to figure it out. Sorry, but you need a need a new truck. We’ll give you a deal since you just bought this one.”

There was a little shop near my house that had “automotive electrical specialists” painted on the window, let’s try it.

Two days later the guy calls and says he was talking to a windshield repair guy that had heard of these occasionally having issues with the under hood fuse box. So he slaps the box and it starts. I drive it around for a few days, doing the same “slap the fuse box” technique every time it died. Eventually that wouldn’t work anymore, so I bring it back to that little auto electrical shop. He finds a fuse box at an online junk yard, $60. $400 in labor to splice and solder every wire. BOOM truck is fixed and still is.

I spent over $8k between rental trucks and attempted repairs that my warranty wouldn’t cover at dealerships. $460 (which was a steal; there’s about 70 wires to splice) and a little investigative diagnostics without a computer and I’m 100% good.

The bottom line is not only are dealer techs unskilled for the most part (probably 80% or more), but shop management is
more concerned with $ than customer satisfaction. If it’s going to take 4 hours of chasing wires, they’d rather tell you it can’t be fixed, would be too expensive to do so, and you just need a new vehicle.

I’m a professional mechanic myself, and I work in a little 5 bay shop. We get “dealer referrals” at least weekly. It’s become backwards from what it used to be; if the local small shop couldn’t do it, you took it to the Repair Gods at a dealership. Not anymore.

If my Snap-On Apollo (way too expensive btw) or Autel can’t communicate, I get out the probe and start searching. But first, I take a good long look at the electrical schematics, and so this crazy old thing called “troubleshooting” 😂.

I know there’s plenty of you here that work at a dealer, and are highly skilled. I would bet many of you are in your 50’s though. We seriously need more new blood or we’re gonna be driving disposable cars in the future.

 

[Justinjs]

You work for a shop and you're a professional mechanic but needed to take your truck somewhere else?

 

[Mulyhuntr]

You work for a shop and you're a professional mechanic but needed to take your truck somewhere else?

My thought exactly. Something doesn't add up.

 

[snakebitten]

Nice Rant!

The branded factory authorized service industry is definitely struggling. None more than Ford, as far as I can tell.

 

[EcoXLT]

You work for a shop and you're a professional mechanic but needed to take your truck somewhere else?

Electrical might not be his thing. It can be intimidating.

 

[butthead]

Have encountered the same style of attitude from dealerships of different makes and locations. Makes finding a co-operative, knowledgeable service dept. a blessing. I do have such and have been a customer for 30 years, I drive past 2 other Ford dealerships to get there. Had the opportunity to see shoddy yet encouraged work from a shop floor, went back to my old job after a week.
When I hear the term 'majority of Ford service technicians' used I almost laugh at the irony! KM

 

[Upshifter]

I was a cook in a upscale mega-chain restaurant in school.
I was really good at that job - awards, promotions, all that good stuff.

Friends and family called me a Chef.

Hardly. I could barely boil water properly.

But I could follow very precise protocols for working on very high-end and precise equipment.
And I worked very quickly and efficiently.

But if someone named me a random dish to make, I couldn't begin to formulate a plan to Chef it up.

I think the story is the same for Dealer techs.

They have a very well defined framework and extensive protocols.
Good techs know them in and out, and work efficiently.
If a problem falls outside of that framework, they are less useful.

 

[mass-hole]

I dont go to the dealer unless the work is going to cost me a lot of money and they will fix it either via warranty or recall. Like the brake master cylinder recall for my F150 and the secondary air injection pump recall for my Lexus. Both were obnoxious. Muliple connectors were left disconnected after the brake recall on the truck, and even after scheduling my Lexus recall appointment like 3 weeks ahead of time, they didnt order the parts to do the work and so I wasted almost 2.5 hours driving down there and then immediately back to my house. Then I had to drive down again the next day. This was all while gas was >$5 a gallon in July i think. Luckily it was like $1000 in parts they replaced but still.

Other than that I'd rather figure it out myself

 

[Upshifter]

Yup. My truck has only ever visited the dealer service bay for that brake booster recall....
… which they botched.... by entirely forgetting to replace the brake booster...

 

[snakebitten]

They have a very well defined framework and extensive protocols.
Good techs know them in and out, and work efficiently.
If a problem falls outside of that framework, they are less useful.

Excellent parallel and deduction.

Where I'm willing to defend them is the incredibly quick pace with which electronics has exploded onto the scene.

It's so obvious to me that the expertise that is required to master the latest vehicles simply hasn't developed fast enough.
I've mentioned before, my 2012 F150 has 7 modules managing various aspects of the truck.
My 2022 has 42 modules.

You can't underestimate how big of a shift in skillset that would be for an F150 technician that truly is a master at diagnosis and repair.

The only thing that I can not and will not defend any tech (or chef) for, is the apathy that exists today that didn't a decade ago.
But that's more of a culture decline I suppose.

 

[EcoXLT]

I was a cook in a upscale mega-chain restaurant in school.
I was really good at that job - awards, promotions, all that good stuff.

Friends and family called me a Chef.

Hardly. I could barely boil water properly.

But I could follow very precise protocols for working on very high-end and precise equipment.
And I worked very quickly and efficiently.

But if someone named me a random dish to make, I couldn't begin to formulate a plan to Chef it up.

I think the story is the same for Dealer techs.

They have a very well defined framework and extensive protocols.
Good techs know them in and out, and work efficiently.
If a problem falls outside of that framework, they are less useful.

My first job (1977) was heavy duty equipment mechanic. All I did was replace engines, transmissions, water pumps, timing chains, rear ends, brakes and such. I couldn’t tune an engine if my life depended on it. I could almost always get the job done faster than the books estimated times gave you. I always took pride on the fact that besides a new shiny part all the wires, hoses and straps were routed and connected like I never took the engine apart.

Eventually I took some automotive classes to learn about tune ups and that lead to passing California’s smog tests to becoming a smog technician. That lead to our shop being one of the first shops (1984) in the Bay Area certified to perform smog certifications.

I can still do tune ups on points, condenser and carburetor cars pretty good still but I hate to do them.
If something ever happens to my truck I’m going to use this forum for advice first. Last resort is the dealership.

 

[motorhead1991]

I always tell people that ASEs only means you can pass a test. There's a certain level of natural skill that you need to be an effective mechanic.

 

[EgregiousBlunder]

Call it a rant if you want, but this is what I have witnessed over the last 10 years or so…
Just read an article where a guy says he hit a curb real hard, and the diagnostic computer at the dealer says he needs a new engine and tranny for $22k. Sounds like the stealership needs a new diagnostic computer! That’s the prob with “mechanics” today. They can’t diagnose, they just do what the computer says to do.

I bought a 2012 F150 4x4 platinum Ecoboost with 100k miles in 2018. Usual issues with water in the intercooler, solved by drilling a tiny hole in it (exact size and location is easily found on YouTube). Then the issue with the 10¢ each coil boots to cure misfires.

One day I’m driving to Chicago from Indy after having the truck about a month, and it lost all power and died. Every single warning light came on, along with the “advance Trac” and every readout warning. Got out, looked under hood, found nothing odd. Slammed the hood shut and it started right up. No issues for 2 months.

Same thing began to happen more and more often, and each time had it towed to to one of 3 Ford dealers in Indy. That truck was in the shop at one dealer or another NINE TIMES in 6 months. Sometimes they’d call and say “we got in and it started up, tested it over several days so you’re good to go.” Only to come get it and it wouldn’t start. Each time they said “our diagnostic computers won’t communicate with it”. So they replaced the BCM. Then the ECM. Then replaced a few grounds. None of this was covered under my 4 year/50,000 aftermarket warranty that covers nothing “or wiring related”.

The final verdict? “Sir, there’s something seriously wrong electronically and we don’t have the ability to figure it out. Sorry, but you need a need a new truck. We’ll give you a deal since you just bought this one.”

There was a little shop near my house that had “automotive electrical specialists” painted on the window, let’s try it.

Two days later the guy calls and says he was talking to a windshield repair guy that had heard of these occasionally having issues with the under hood fuse box. So he slaps the box and it starts. I drive it around for a few days, doing the same “slap the fuse box” technique every time it died. Eventually that wouldn’t work anymore, so I bring it back to that little auto electrical shop. He finds a fuse box at an online junk yard, $60. $400 in labor to splice and solder every wire. BOOM truck is fixed and still is.

I spent over $8k between rental trucks and attempted repairs that my warranty wouldn’t cover at dealerships. $460 (which was a steal; there’s about 70 wires to splice) and a little investigative diagnostics without a computer and I’m 100% good.

The bottom line is not only are dealer techs unskilled for the most part (probably 80% or more), but shop management is
more concerned with $ than customer satisfaction. If it’s going to take 4 hours of chasing wires, they’d rather tell you it can’t be fixed, would be too expensive to do so, and you just need a new vehicle.

I’m a professional mechanic myself, and I work in a little 5 bay shop. We get “dealer referrals” at least weekly. It’s become backwards from what it used to be; if the local small shop couldn’t do it, you took it to the Repair Gods at a dealership. Not anymore.

If my Snap-On Apollo (way too expensive btw) or Autel can’t communicate, I get out the probe and start searching. But first, I take a good long look at the electrical schematics, and so this crazy old thing called “troubleshooting” 😂.

I know there’s plenty of you here that work at a dealer, and are highly skilled. I would bet many of you are in your 50’s though. We seriously need more new blood or we’re gonna be driving disposable cars in the future.

This has to be a troll post. Guy is a "mechanic" and drilling holes in intercoolers and spends 8k in repairs at someone else's shop lolol

 

[motorhead1991]

This has to be a troll post. Guy is a "mechanic" and drilling holes in intercoolers and spends 8k in repairs at someone else's shop lolol

The older trucks had a larger problem with condensation in the intercooler. The best way to alleviate that was a small (less than 1/8) hole in the lowest point of the cold side on the intercooler. This kept the engine from sucking in cups of water during a hard pull.

Ford's solution was a fin cover that kept the IC warmer, which is counterproductive for power.

 

[EgregiousBlunder]

The older trucks had a larger problem with condensation in the intercooler. The best way to alleviate that was a small (less than 1/8) hole in the lowest point of the cold side on the intercooler. This kept the engine from sucking in cups of water during a hard pull.

Ford's solution was a fin cover that kept the IC warmer, which is counterproductive for power.

I get that, but having unplugged 1/8th in holes in the intercooler is counterproductive and just creating a boost leak, maybe 1/16th in the area where it's prone to puddle as some had to on the Focus ST/RS's. I suspect a lot of people seeing this issue also never really drove their vehicles, short tripped them a lot. Another solution we did on the ST/RS's was to drill the intercooler and place a brass stone pneumatic breather plug in it.

 

[motorhead1991]

I mean, my 20PSI datalogs say it's not a problem, but hey 🤷‍♂️. Though I'm likely pushing these stockers too hard anyways.

EDIT:
To be clear, I'm not saying this method is right or wrong, just that it doesn't make much of a difference in overall performance. Leave it alone, plug it or leave it open. It's up to the individual really.

 

[GearHead_1]

I always tell people that ASEs only means you can pass a test. There's a certain level of natural skill that you need to be an effective mechanic.

I happen to be a retired ASE Certified Master Tech. A natural affinity to mechanical things is a must in order to be a great tech. Some people, try as they might, will never be able to do more than simply spout something they've read to you.

A certification, whether it's a Ford, Toyota, or ASE, doesn't guarantee a great technician. It takes so much more than just the ability to pass the test. That said, if your technician can't at least pass the test (barring some type of handicap) you might want to rethink your choice of technicians. It's no longer the 20th century, a high degree of literacy is a must for today's great technicians to be able to fix the vehicles coming out today.

 

[Blown F-150]

Well, there isn't much that I'll go to a dealer for, lol. Recall's and bodywork is pretty much it.

 

[Go-C Graphics]

Honestly, the new breed of mechanics scares me.
In a tool fb group I'm in, I posted a picture of my new torque wrench and the reason I had to get it. The brake caliper bracket on the F150 gets torqued to 185lb-ft.
You would not believe how many mechanics told me I was full of poop and that I shouldn't be working on cars.
They all started off by saying how many years they've been in the business (Some said 20+ years) and that they've never seen torques that high.
I simply posted a screen shot of the manual and stated they're the ones that have no business working on cars.
The only reply I get back was "Well, I've never had a car come back"

These guys don't care. The dealerships don't prioritize that peoples lives could be at stake if they don't do something right. Maybe not today or tomorrow but in a few months that caliper bolt could come loose and cause an accident that kills people.

 

[mass-hole]

I get that, but having unplugged 1/8th in holes in the intercooler is counterproductive and just creating a boost leak, maybe 1/16th in the area where it's prone to puddle as some had to on the Focus ST/RS's. I suspect a lot of people seeing this issue also never really drove their vehicles, short tripped them a lot. Another solution we did on the ST/RS's was to drill the intercooler and place a brass stone pneumatic breather plug in it.

You ever calculate how much air mass can flow through a 1/8" hole with a 20 psi pressure differential? Its like a tenth of a lb/min.