[snakebitten]

Interesting way to state it.
And the huge leap in electronic management of EVERY function on the truck, including something as simple as the dome light, supports your argument.

I DO think that the trucks are still viable for a long term ownership experience though. But at the very least you would need to invest in Ford's extended warranty, and include the "features" that they present as add-on extra charge. For example, Keys, Leds lighting.

So tag on a couple of $thousand to the purchase price before a year of ownership is up. At that point you might know if you got "a good one", and worthy of extending the 3/36 to whatever you forecast.

And a second attribute about the new ones that can reduce the intimidation is the amazing grass-roots technical support for addressing the very issues that are reflecting so poorly on the official factory service center.
I've literally watched 100's of owners fix their own trucks with a laptop after being frustrated by the dealership for MONTHS. It takes a while for some to believe that they are capable. But time after time I've witnessed them discover that they had their local dealership on a pedestal that they weren't deserving of.

 

[DNA Dan]

I think Ford just needs to invest in this level II tech support "grassroots" and funnel that toward meaningful change at the engineering level. I mean look at the decades long phaser issue. It still happens. I understand you can't completely engineer a 0% fail rate, but if you're going to use " parts replacement " as a means to avoid the opportunity cost of troubleshooting a fix, design them easier to change rather than pinning 2k in labor on a part that should last years on the consumer. With their current approach you won't even be able to change a light bulb without having something flashed to avoid a CEL. I think a healthy aftermarket and Independent mechanic shop market is critical to balance against the corporate profit machine, but it's getting more and more difficult for these shops to work around proprietary, built in engineering that forces you into a dealership service shop.

 

[snakebitten]

2 years into this generation of F150, and the similar framework that the other Ford products are following, I'm dead certain that the near future dealership service department will have a filled or unfilled position for an FDRS specialist.

No different than some have a "transmission" specialist, or an NVH specialist, or a diesel specialist............

And that fella/gal will have a service bay that will not require a big roll-around snap-on toolbox, but rather a dedicated IP gateway, an ethernet switch, and his/her own access point. 😁

Might have a couple of workstations with multiple monitors and OBD extension cables for handling the adjacent bay simultaneously.

Any dealership that ALREADY has an FDRS proficient technician is experiencing the potential benefits. There's just no way to service the product currently coming off the product line if every glitch is going to require "we have a call into Ford and we are waiting to hear back"

It's been absolutely BRUTAL for the percentage of F150 new owners that have had what REALLY is a minor issue be stretched out into a joy robbing new vehicle ownership experience.

 

[TowingTime92]

Well, at least your problem had some problem-solving, including my truck is at Roswell Ford in Roswell New Mexico for over a month because it would completely lose power and then die and then restart it be fine. Finally I got to the point where it would do it almost every single time and at the time I was near that dealership towing in an 8000 pound trailer. I ended up, dropping it off and the codes that had generated were system was having an issue meeting the required fuel pressure and also the same code upon trying to start it saying fuel system is unable to meet the required fuel pressure with a misfire. Well, I dropped it off and you would think that they would check the fuel pumps, the one in the tank, and then the one in the engine being regulator after me telling them 1 million times that it was the fuel pump. Well, after a week, they told me that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with my truck even though the tech was able to re-create it when he drove the truck, and now this is a master technician mind, you said he couldn’t figure it out. Well, after I had spoken with the executive office, and went off the deep end while I was at the Dealership they called me three weeks after dropping the truck off to let me know that they figured it out. It was the fuel pump..
I mean who would’ve thunk that it was the fuel pump, causing a fuel pressure code, at least the tech you had could read a computer. This one couldn’t even figure that out.

 

[motorhead1991]

A dealership has a guy on Facebook convinced that underboost codes are normal, on a stock truck.

 

[TowingTime92]

in the past the dealership was always expensive but at least they could fix the issue and did good work. Now it’s just a Jiffy Lube with a Ford Logo. Heck, Jiffy Lube has even gotten better.

 

[DNA Dan]

in the past the dealership was always expensive but at least they could fix the issue and did good work. Now it’s just a Jiffy Lube with a Ford Logo. Heck, Jiffy Lube has even gotten better.

I know the coffee is better. Meh.

 

[TowingTime92]

I’ll agree with the coffee thing! Where I bought the truck has a coffee machine that cost well over $20k and is pretty Trick, on the other hand the “TECHS” in combination don’t have $5k worth of training for actually diagnosing an issue.

 

[TowingTime92]

If anyone is having issues with a dealership not doing the right thing send me a PM and I can give you a direct contact to the executive office case manager. She makes things happen and doesn’t need approvals from departments just Lena Ford and the CEO. She just reimbursed me a Truck Payment, the 25% of the repair I had to pay, a Rental Truck and Gas Money from my Home to go back and pick up the truck as well as any hotels stayed at within the service dates not in my home state.

 

[aboostedf150]

This has to be a troll post. Guy is a "mechanic" and drilling holes in intercoolers and spends 8k in repairs at someone else's shop lolol

maybe maybe not, lots of techs are parts charges don’t know as much as ppl think many have very limited skills from doing the same few tasks..I’ve been a tech since 1988-89, I’m triple master and duel Advanced certified, (until I was crippled) plus a ton a ford, and GM stuff, the. Ended up also teaching electronics at UT..before the Internet,and dealers got their online help lines,(99-2000) I used to go around at night and fix electrical problems for dealers and other issues simply because dealerships techs work in groups or at least they used to they have like 1-3 head teche and they have 4-8 guys underneath them but all do only certain tasks and certain repairs they don’t all cross train or work on every model SO way BACK dealers used to need and cared about finding someone to fix customers cars, today it’s all about relying on the guys back at Ford or GM to help, so your not getting as much for your money from them..
your local tech at your local shop who’s been around awhile tends to be a better tech, yet too many techs are simply parts changers ,they read a code, and order a part , or just do what they are told to do ,why lack of training or lack of understanding, plus dealers work on book times for certain tasks and don’t give you extra effort I found.. , i used to work on everything from motorcycles,buses trucks, boats , cars every brand from Audis and yugos to Ferraris foreign domestic doesn’t matter, I didn’t specialize why because we the techs decided what we worked on, and it made us more money, and the owners got a better shop out of it, I never wanted to waste my time if it wasn’t in my wheelhouse and I didn’t ant a mad customer either ….

yet I do find it silly that a dealer couldn’t go around and grab and pull on the fuse box,and the harness it is one of the first things you do after giving it a once over ,maybe it’s a story he heard while changing tires at discount tire, lol…

 

[aboostedf150]

Excellent parallel and deduction.

Where I'm willing to defend them is the incredibly quick pace with which electronics has exploded onto the scene.

It's so obvious to me that the expertise that is required to master the latest vehicles simply hasn't developed fast enough.
I've mentioned before, my 2012 F150 has 7 modules managing various aspects of the truck.
My 2022 has 42 modules.

You can't underestimate how big of a shift in skillset that would be for an F150 technician that truly is a master at diagnosis and repair.

The only thing that I can not and will not defend any tech (or chef) for, is the apathy that exists today that didn't a decade ago.
But that's more of a culture decline I suppose.

Yeah but many of what they call a module is really just a fancy relay box, nothing that complicated, it’s like the hazard relays, they started calling them modules years ago on some brands , why cause it had two relays in one box instead of them being in different locations..that’s what ford is doing as are others, we had that same discussion one day why I was grading papers in the teachers lounge at UT although it was comparing Audi‘s increase in modules as we all taught some type of electronics..

 

[aboostedf150]

To those who doubt the weep hole drilling, a search here finds plenty of people who never had a bother issue regarding the truck falling on its face at the worst possible time.

Weep hole still draining

I have a 2013 FX4 with 130k miles. I drilled a weep hole 5 days ago and it’s still draining oil. I would say about a quart and a half has drained out so far. Is it possible my intercooler had that much oil in it or did I screw up and drill in the wrong spot?

www.f150ecoboost.net

Dude we almost all knew about drilling a hole in the 2011-13 (manly)ICI it’s condensation, must be dozens of discussions about it,….don’t feel bad ,it’s a forum, lol..

 

[aboostedf150]

All I can say, is if you think automotive techs are bad, stay out of RV dealerships.....

lol doctors are worse ..lol they charge you for diagnosing you every time you come in even if it’s for the same problem they get paid, lol..if they make you sick, they charge you, heck if they kill you they send God the bill..

 

[snakebitten]

Yeah but many of what they call a module is really just a fancy relay box, nothing that complicated, it’s like the hazard relays, they started calling them modules years ago on some brands , why cause it had two relays in one box instead of them being in different locations..that’s what ford is doing as are others, we had that same discussion one day why I was grading papers in the teachers lounge at UT although it was comparing Audi‘s increase in modules as we all taught some type of electronics..

No offense, but I think you should at least hook up something like Forscan to a current F150 and take a look. With your background in electronics, I'm certain you will confirm those modules aren't just relays.

 

[JimmyD750]

Dude we almost all knew about drilling a hole in the 2011-13 (manly)ICI it’s condensation, must be dozens of discussions about it,….don’t feel bad ,it’s a forum, lol..

😂 I know I know, it’s just that some chimed in with “YOU DRILLED A HOLE?!?!” Yes, I drilled a hole in my CAC, and it served the purpose, fixed the issue, for many miles until I did my complete big turbo build, which included everything related to the turbos.

 

[aboostedf150]

No offense, but I think you should at least hook up something like Forscan to a current F150 and take a look. With your background in electronics, I'm certain you will confirm those modules aren't just relays.

Correct many many are true ECMS ,PCMS etc and I don’t disagree with your comment infact I agree ..but they’ve been calling everything that contains multiple functions or pathways a module with a increased amount of certainty, and will continue to do so if it’s got the tiniest bit of a circuit board inside ,it’s become the go to slang word ..yet technically a module can be used for anything that joins multiple units or components into one, and so electrically many times
it’s being used to describe multiple pathways or functions , not so much multiple parts like a fuel pump module for example it contains multiple components..
Anyway like anything else terms change as do the way we tend to use them over time..it’s all good.

 

[aboostedf150]

I’ll agree with the coffee thing! Where I bought the truck has a coffee machine that cost well over $20k and is pretty Trick, on the other hand the “TECHS” in combination don’t have $5k worth of training for actually diagnosing an issue.

Lol,lol.LMAO..

 

[Boatwaco]

Is there an octane module?

 

[snakebitten]

Correct many many are true ECMS ,PCMS etc and I don’t disagree with your comment infact I agree ..but they’ve been calling everything that contains multiple functions or pathways a module with a increased amount of certainty, and will continue to do so if it’s got the tiniest bit of a circuit board inside ,it’s become the go to slang word ..yet technically a module can be used for anything that joins multiple units or components into one, and so electrically many times
it’s being used to describe multiple pathways or functions , not so much multiple parts like a fuel pump module for example it contains multiple components..
Anyway like anything else terms change as do the way we tend to use them over time..it’s all good.

I'm not nearly as knowledgeable about electronics, but if it's "programmable", meaning you can install firmware/software on it, does that confirm there is a circuit board(s) within the module?

Here's a screenshot of the programmable modules in the truck. (Ford Diagnostic & Repair System FDRS screenshot) 42 individual modules.

Ford has made it as straight forward as possible for the techs to support the customer's vehicle with up-to-date software. They literally scan the truck directly, or simply supply the VIN, and FDRS will list all available updates for the modules onboard, as well as the current AsBuilt values since the last time the vehicle synced with the Motorcraft cloud.

(And still, it is so common for dealerships to look the customer in the eye and tell them there are no updates available for their vehicle)

 

[JimmyD750]

Well, there isn't much that I'll go to a dealer for, lol. Recall's and bodywork is pretty much it.

Body work at the dealer scares me too! They quoted me $13,500 for cab corners and inner/outer rockers, compared to a privately owned shop that’s well known in this area for Ford rust work at $5,500-6,000.