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Discussion Starter #1
I'm making a catch can and in the meantime I'd like to see a diagram showing all the hoses to and from and what-not. Looked everywhere but couldn't find any specifics on a 2013. Anybody got one they can share or draw a map of it, lol?
 

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Post how your designing the can. Can give you some tips to avoid it allowing as much oil to pass through as it catches.

The PCV is simple, but if you do not modify the PCV system to evacuate constantly during both boost and non boost operation the issues will still remain.

Fresh filtered air enters the drivers side cam/valve cover from the main intake air pipe and the foul, or dirty side vapors are evacuated out the passenger side cam/valve cover by the intake manifold vacuum when at idle or in non-boost operation.
 

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I regapped my plugs today and seen how its all ran. The 2 on the valve cover is obvious of what they do but there's the other hose that comes off the intake, t'ed into one another, to the manifold then to the back of the head. What's that one all about?
 

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The others are evap fuel evac and vacuum accy's like the power brake booster, etc. The main points of ingestion are the drivers side (the dirty, or foul side of the PCV system) and that is where the combustion by-products are evacuated from and drawn into the intake manifold. The drivers side line from the cam/valve cover to the intake tube is the "fresh", or clean side that should only allow clean filtered make-up air in.

The flaw in design allows this to floe out carrying vapors into the turbo intake. Also, remember, just a can will not correct anything....the can must be designed in such a way as to keep the incoming oil laden vapors totally separate from the cleaned vapors exiting that can and proper coalescing and condensing chambers to do a good job or you will have as much or more of this mixture pass right through the can as it catches.

You will also need to address the flow issue of the OEM system to prevent the back-flow into the cleanside.

Keep us updated with pictures!
 

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Correct!!! To many engines going through this brain as we make systems for most cars and light trucks import and domestic.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Now isn't the whole pcv system for emissions and not so much for sucking oil out of the engine? Also curious as to why this specific truck is any different for needing the vacuum vs all our race cars that just vent from each valve cover naturally ya know?

I made a can with 2 inlets and 1 fresh air outlet to put a filter on then going to vent each valve cover to each inlet and let them vent naturally and then cap off the turbo inlet side and manifold side. Therefore there's 0 chance of oil getting into the intake side at all. That's how I have it on my turbo camaro and works good, clean oil and doesn't build pressure to blow any seals.
 

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Now isn't the whole pcv system for emissions and not so much for sucking oil out of the engine? Also curious as to why this specific truck is any different for needing the vacuum vs all our race cars that just vent from each valve cover naturally ya know?
Not sure what type race cars, but if a round track many classes do not allow belt driven vacuum pumps and since they change oil after every race or so the damaging compounds are removed with the oil vs a street car.

All the drag engines we do we run belt driven vacuum pumps to remove the contaminants and produce more power. Many sportsman or amateur racers run header evac systems to evacuate. But no pro's ever run w/out a evac system as the engines are anywhere from $15k-$100k plus, not a round track "claimer" engine.

Top fuel engines are tore down and rebuilt after every run and oil is also replaced and they generate far to much blow-by for any system to handle so it is a pressure fed into large containers emptied every run.

I made a can with 2 inlets and 1 fresh air outlet to put a filter on then going to vent each valve cover to each inlet and let them vent naturally and then cap off the turbo inlet side and manifold side. Therefore there's 0 chance of oil getting into the intake side at all. That's how I have it on my turbo camaro and works good, clean oil and doesn't build pressure to blow any seals.[/QUOTE

But that defeats all evacuation and only releases crankcase pressure. Everytime you shut your engine down you are allowing the damaging combustion byproducts to condense and contaminate the engine oil. It is critical to remove these while they are still in a suspended state, and that can only be done through constant evacuation during both non-boost and boost operation.

I think your misunderstanding how critical it is to evacuate these compounds and are only think of crankcase pressure and emissions, which is very common. The PCV system is the most misunderstood system on engines today. If you were to tear into your camaro, just remove valve covers and see the sulfuric acid and water alreaady attacking the valve train:
Here is a picture of a LSX engine in a drag car in the shop right now with the same thing your describing after just 6 months. You can see the rocker arms and the stamped steel cups that retain the needle bearings don't take much to corrode to the point they fail and spill those hardened bearings into the oil pan:


What the blow by contains besides just the pressure your thinking of is unburnt fuel, water, sulfuric acid, abrasive carbon particles, and other damaging hydrocarbons. You are stopping oil ingestion at the sacrifice of the engines life. When you tear down next to freshen, look at the main and rod bearings...you will see "worm tracks" or stains that is the acid attacking the bearing surface. Then look at the journals themselves. there will be small pits and discoloration as well from the acid content as it attacks the case hardened surface. The abrasive carbon particles that are too small for the filter to capture capture and as they are extremely abrasive (next to diamond, carbon is the most abrasive) and as this accumulates, wear increases as well.

Here are some links to further understand:

Oil Catch Cans | Everything you need to know and more!

http://www.106rallye.co.uk/members/dynofiend/breathersystems.pdf

And many more out there.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Good read, thanks! So on these specific ecoboost engines when all stripped down of hoses you have the 2 open fittings on each valve cover, 1 fitting on the manifold and 1 on the inlet tube of turbo. I assume you could run both valve covers to a can, then on the 3rd "outlet" of can, run that to the inlet side of turbo since that sees vacuum almost constantly?
 

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That would result in no filtered fresh air source that is critical to flush the vapors out. You ideally want filtered fresh air entering the drivers side, where it travels around the cams and valve train, down into the crankcase (all the time flushing the damaging combustion byproducts out with it) and up the passenger side and out the passenger side cam cover. If you ran both valve covers together, it would have no fresh make up air source. Think of it as a room in a house full of smoke. Open one window and some smoke will work its way out, but most will remain. Now open a window on the opposite side and you get a good cross flow ventilation (or evacuation in the engine).

With a belt driven vacuum pump, we evacuate from one valve cover, and have a adjustable vacuum relief valve in the opposite one as we try to maintain 14-16" of vacuum at all times, but still allows the flow through flushing when the relief valve is opening and closing to maintain the vacuum level. And I love the Camaro!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I know exactly what your saying. So the drivers side then would work well with just a small filter on the valve cover, pull air through that and out the pass valve cover, into can and get vacuum from the turbo inlet and cap off manifold OR get vacuum source from manifold and cap turbo inlet? Thanks for the compliment on the camaro, been 6 years in the making!
 

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Correct. That will give you good full through flush and evacuation. :thumbsup:

I love boosted engines, and that snail is no little unit there!!!
 

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Post how your designing the can. Can give you some tips to avoid it allowing as much oil to pass through as it catches.

The PCV is simple, but if you do not modify the PCV system to evacuate constantly during both boost and non boost operation the issues will still remain.

Fresh filtered air enters the drivers side cam/valve cover from the main intake air pipe and the foul, or dirty side vapors are evacuated out the passenger side cam/valve cover by the intake manifold vacuum when at idle or in non-boost operation.
I've been looking at the crankcase ventilation/ pcv system on these motors and fresh air does not enter the driver side valve cover from the turbo inlet pipe, it goes the other direction...
 

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I've been looking at the crankcase ventilation/ pcv system on these motors and fresh air does not enter the driver side valve cover from the turbo inlet pipe, it goes the other direction...
Yes, when the intake manifold is in boost and the pcv valve on the passenger side is closed. However when the intake is in vacuum, fresh air will be drawn through the turbo intake pipe into the crankcase.


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The knee bone's connected to the thigh bone, the thigh bone's connected to thee hip bone....
Sorry not helpful at all but it looks like you're in good hands.
 

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Yes, when the intake manifold is in boost and the pcv valve on the passenger side is closed. However when the intake is in vacuum, fresh air will be drawn through the turbo intake pipe into the crankcase.


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There is no vacuum on the driver side valve cover. Remove the line, put your hand over the vc port with the engine idling (under vac), you'll see what I'm talking about. It is a crankcase vent for the vapors to recycle through the intake. Remove the turbo inlet pipe on this side and you'll find it coated with oil.
 

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There is no vacuum on the driver side valve cover. Remove the line, put your hand over the vc port with the engine idling (under vac), you'll see what I'm talking about. It is a crankcase vent for the vapors to recycle through the intake. Remove the turbo inlet pipe on this side and you'll find it coated with oil.
You must have a leak. Try it again with the oil cap on. ? There is vacuum there, it takes a little while to build up. The drivers side valve cover doubles as a breather for fresh air during non boost operation and then during boost the blow by gasses vent out of there into the turbo pipe, that's why you see oil there. Air flows both ways at drivers side port.



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