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Just for giggles I took Jerry's pull above and plotted my own MPT 93 dyno pull (with nearly the same bolt-ons) on top of it. I'd claim my results are pretty typical of anyone running a MPT tune almost all the bolt-ons (haven't put the mishimoto hotside pipes on yet, but in the garage) but stock turbos. Its clear to me that if you want to stick with running 93 pump gas, GT turbos are the way to go (unless you start building engines, etc). 100 gap in TQ and 50 gap in HP over 93 tune on stock turbos and holds the advantage basically the entire way.

Now that said - for those of use who are a little more adventurous, I can say via the butt dyno and some 1/4 mile testing (and seeing some other dynos, but since they're not mine I won't post them) that an E30 tune is likely to make up nearly all that TQ gap, and close -some- of the HP gap on the big end. That gain is all from timing though as Jerry said above, my E30 tune is not pushing boost harder than my 93 tune but it runs way more timing. Personally I'm not all that scared of the timing addition but it does mean you can't screw up and have your wife put in 87 octane and then mash the pedal. Still looking forward to getting on the dyno with the E30 tune-up.

Maybe I should get up to Dallas one of these days and Jerry and I can run on the same dyno back to back for the ultimate in comparisons! =)

IMG_5975.JPG
 

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Great post Jerry. My biggest gripe with the Gt's is they just don't give you enough hp/$. I could have skipped the meth, used a larger intercooler, and played with the exhaust. This would have(in theory)allowed me to run the same 12.7 that the meth allowed me to do.(I only hit 18psi in 4th) Looking at them(stock vs. Gt) You can't even tell the difference unless you look at the actual part number. In the end, I think one would be as good off saving the money and upgrading the CAC, CAI, and exhaust.

But, that's just my opinion. I don't even think I could give the two used, hunks of metal I paid 2k for away.(They're in pretty rough shape) But, I might just use them as wall art in the garage. :)
 

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Question increasing timing also increases cylinder pressures right? So less timing with GT's would be theoretically easier on the internals with less timing?
 

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Question increasing timing also increases cylinder pressures right? So less timing with GT's would be theoretically easier on the internals with less timing?
Yes, in a way, if you decrease timing up top you will decrease peak cylinder pressure and have a better average cylinder pressure. But there is certain trade offs to everything you adjust. Overall though, less timing means lower peak pressure and generally less heat.
 

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2011 3.5 Ecoboost, Full Race GT turbos, Wagner Intercooler, Full Race Catted Down pipes, Mishimoto Charge Pipes, Tifosi Performance Zero Restriction Catback, MPT Email Tune for GTs with 4 revisions.

Before naysayers tell you the GT Turbos don't make much more than stock.. find out how much timing, boost, <and Methanol> others are using to overspin stock turbos to produce numbers that are close at lower RPM. Then really look at the torque: at 5000RPM, the GT's are putting down over 100lb/ft more than those with stock turbos using excessive timing/meth. Some notes/highlights when you are comparing graphs:


  • Boost: This tune runs 16lbs of boost until 4500RPM, and then climbs to 18lbs of boost. Even then, in cool weather, it is out of fuel. There is another 50lb ft of torque available by going crazy and commanding 18lbs of boost below 4500RPM. Bigger fuel pump fixes this.
  • Timing: Zero on the hit, climbs to 9 degrees about halfway through the pull, and max's out at 12 degrees of timing. If others aren't telling you how much timing their tune has.. its a lot..
  • No meth: With that little timing, I shouldn't have to say it, but that means no Methanol, this is done on 93 Octane pump gas with 10% Ethanol.
  • Dyno: This dyno pull is on the industry standard DynoJet 224. Wildly different results with different dynos.
  • SAE Standard: This dyno pull is reported in SAE standard. Most dyno graphs are published in STD standard, which results in inflated numbers. Compare apples to apples.
  • Email Tuned: Needless to say, I do recommend MPT for these results.
If you are planning big turbos or have big turbos and having problems, don't get caught up in the negative hype here. Look at your foundation, make sure you aren't asking unnatural things of your engine (intake/exhaust restrictions), and work with your tuner to get it right.

View attachment 129794
Alot better curved graph and a lot safer than this. Very well done Jerry, thanks for the information.

MPT_2015_EB_35_93PRX-PT-SCT.jpg
 

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For some reason, in my own head, I had it etched that the GT's didn't hit that hard that soon.

I'm no graph guru but I can clearly see I had that wrong.
I gotta hitch a ride in the passenger seat of that shop-truck to feel what that long flat curve actually equates to on the human Richter scale. ;)
I'll buy if we fly. Burgers?
 

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For some reason, in my own head, I had it etched that the GT's didn't hit that hard that soon.

I'm no graph guru but I can clearly see I had that wrong.
I gotta hitch a ride in the passenger seat of that shop-truck to feel what that long flat curve actually equates to on the human Richter scale. ;)
I'll buy if we fly. Burgers?
I need to bring my country arse down to Texas, it seems to be where all the fun is at right now. They got a good resort nearby?
 
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