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2018 2.7l 4x4
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The airflow may not be the best indicator for this experiment on my truck. I say that because the Powerboost accomplishes meeting ordinary torque requests with far less boost than my Ecoboosts did.

It has ~100ftlbs of electric torque that it draws from before it asks for forced induction, so you get the NA torque + 100Etorque before you get 1psi of boost.

The best way to describe what that's like is that it's AMAZING how quickly you can get to the speed limit without boost! I spent 4 years driving at the same daily pace in my Gen2. Same Boost PID on my Ngauge. I was in boost almost continuously if I was accelerating driving normally as I drive. I'm not in anyone's way, let's just say.

This Powerboost might never spool 2psi and I've left traffic behind in the rear view. Not enough to get the LEO to consider me a nuisance or anything, but I definitely have them looking.

Admittedly in these parts an old man wearing a cowboy hat in a white truck probably gets a buffer. Lol

Your truck is wholly a poor test subject for us normal ICE trucks to use as an example!


I was followed for a while the other night.. they caught me at the end of a Datalog run.. Don't know why he never flipped the lights on, but he might have seen my name after pulling the plate and decided to leave me alone (I'm a vol FF in the county)
 

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2015 Ford F-150 Lariat Screw 5.5' | 3.5 Eco | 4x4 3.55 Max Tow | 33's, Tuned by BoostKing
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I use a BDX and after installing a tune or KAM restet my OAR 0's out. I have to get into serious boost over a period of days to see it drop to -.72 or better, long term use and it will eventually be -.97. I think it needs to see some knock to adjust the OAR. Everyday driving will not do it. KM
I have drained entire tanks chasing good OAR after loading a tune. My tuner is probably annoyed it takes me so long to get logs back to him.
I've driven like a juvenile gorilla for many miles based on conversations here that "getting the knock to happen" is what settles OAR quickly.
But my OAR is just always bad on a tune.

To the point that early feedback from tuner is there may not be much more cranking of the dial possible on this crappy OAR.

I need to look at more data points, but my Airflow lbs/min isn't that far from what it does stock with a good OAR.
 

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Can I ask what gallons/gallons you usually use with E85/91?

Just curious because I'm scientifically keeping to the one constant (currently) of 5/25 for a 30 gallon tank.

Obviously I am not exact between fuelings because I am filling up with about 5 gallons left in the tank of the previous cocktail. But at this point the margin of error is wide enough to accommodate that fact.
3/33 - 36 gal tank. I try to keep it in the e15 ballpark but would have no problem going e20.
 

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2017 F150 XL 2WD 2.7, with some extra stuff!
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Sounds good Ben but I have tried and Casey has tried to get the KR to indcate. No such luck either with the old GTX or the BDX, my pid KR is flatlined all the time at 0. But either way the knock sensors need to tickle their limits to indicate the correct OAR. KM
 

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2012 f150 3.5 platinum 4x4
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The whole concept of E85 and E## tuning is almost exclusively discussed in the context of chasing horsepower.
That's not exactly what I am asking about here, but the folks that have experience with doing so are likely the source for the questions I have regarding.

I'll premise the exact question with some anecdotal results of what I discovered with my current almost empty tank of fuel:
I pumped 5 gallons of E85 into a tankful of 93. The Powerboost is a 30 gallon tank, by the way.

Obviously my OAR was already pegged at -1 without the E85, but I thought I'd experiment with some extra ethanol in a safe quantity and see what happened. :)

There was zero drivability evidence.
There appears to be a small decrease in fuel economy, but it was only a 500 mile sample and so not strictly scientific, but the mpg for the tankful is down just short of 1 mpg. (22 mpg instead of 23)
The most interesting evidence is how common it was to be cruising along without locking out gears, thus allowing the low RPM oem strategy, yet seeing KR pegged at -6

View attachment 180793

I am assuming that - KR IS evidence that the dose of E85 had some influence in the combustion chamber, even though OAR didn't need the E85 since the 93 fuel already maxed that out?


So the question:

With the primary intention being to maintain a great OAR value, (on a completely stock untuned Ecoboost) how reasonable would it be to blend just enough E85 with say E10 87 or 89 octane, rather than the 93?

Or put another way, my simplistic understanding has me thinking that there was so much OAR headroom in the E85/93 cocktail I was running that theoretically I could step down from the 93 to 89 or 87, add the appropriate E85 just enough to maintain the OAR I get from straight 93?

By the way, this is just me messing around. I doubt the cost savings at the pump is significant, and even if it was, I don't want to introduce the cost influence. Yet anyways.

I'm more curious whether it's a reasonable thing to even try since, for the first time, E85 is convenient for me to get. :)

Also note I am not tuning for any of this, so I'm guessing that there are limitations on what the oem pcm (and fueling system) logic can accommodate?
if you went of this calculator , ( I absolutely dig these things ) you can see that 8 gallons of ( genuine e85 )
nets ya a bit over 93 oct. and id bet you'd save a few coins in the process. except, i dont know what the factory ethanol limitations are on the new power boost.
this mix brings you up to 28% ethanol if you get the standard 7% 89 I typically see here.

anyways if you haven't already played arpumd with these calculators give it a go.
 

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Sounds good Ben but I have tried and Casey has tried to get the KR to indcate. No such luck either with the old GTX or the BDX, my pid KR is flatlined all the time at 0. But either way the knock sensors need to tickle their limits to indicate the correct OAR. KM
:-(

casey never had trouble with my logging, brett has.. so Ive taken to maintaining my own log configs based on what what works with my truck
 

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2022 Powergrid KingRanch in Sparkle White
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
if you went of this calculator , ( I absolutely dig these things ) you can see that 8 gallons of ( genuine e85 )
nets ya a bit over 93 oct. and id bet you'd save a few coins in the process. except, i dont know what the factory ethanol limitations are on the new power boost.
this mix brings you up to 28% ethanol if you get the standard 7% 89 I typically see here.

anyways if you haven't already played arpumd with these calculators give it a go.
The Powerboost is just a 2022 3.5 Ecoboost as far as anything I have ever seen or heard. So no special factory limits with ethanol content other than perhaps in typical driving it is requiring less boost than the non Hybrid Ecoboost.

The calculator would definitely come into play if I was looking for precision mixing, but that would also require me to verify the actual ethanol percentage at this particular supplier.

I DO want to know if 5 gallons to a tankful is near some kind of limit for an oem truck, but I felt like even if it really was E85 that I'm below a danger threshold?

I have only driven 50 miles with the new tank of 89 octane. Note that's the strangest thing to me. I am purposely not pouring the highest octane at the pump! I rarely EVER do that except maybe for a lawnmower. Lol

In those 50 miles it's eventually reduced the negative KR from being pegged at - 6 during steady state low RPM cruising, to the -3<>-4 range. Surely it will drop below that? I fully expected to start seeing positive KR and thus a drop in OAR. Or can just 5 gallons of E85 pump the anti knock up enough to hold OAR?

A little 1.5 minute video of the last portion of the 50 miles as I was arriving near home. 35mph cruise control. Normal mode allowing the ridiculous low rpms of factory shift strategy.

 
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2022 F150 SCREW, Power Boost, 6.5' Box, 4x4, 1645# CC
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The Powerboost is just a 2022 3.5 Ecoboost as far as anything I have ever seen or heard. So no special factory limits with ethanol content other than perhaps in typical driving it is requiring less boost than the non Hybrid Ecoboost.

The calculator would definitely come into play if I was looking for precision mixing, but that would also require me to verify the actual ethanol percentage at this particular supplier.

I DO want to know if 5 gallons to a tankful is near some kind of limit for an oem truck, but I felt like even if it really was E85 that I'm below a danger threshold?

I have only driven 50 miles with the new tank of 89 octane. Note that's the strangest thing to me. I am purposely not pouring the highest octane at the pump! I rarely EVER do that except maybe for a lawnmower. Lol

In those 50 miles it's eventually reduced the negative KR from being pegged at - 6 during steady state low RPM cruising, to the -3<>-4 range. Surely it will drop below that? I fully expected to start seeing positive KR and thus a drop in OAR. Or can just 5 gallons of E85 pump the anti knock up enough to hold OAR?

A little 1.5 minute video of the last portion of the 50 miles as I was arriving near home. 35mph cruise control. Normal mode allowing the ridiculous low rpms of factory shift strategy.

My owners manual says the MY22 Hybrid is not designed for E85 gasoline. At best only E15 should be used.

"Can I put E15 or E85 in my vehicle, and how will it affect my fuel economy? Your hybrid vehicle can use E15 (15% ethanol, 85% gasoline) fuel, but you may notice slightly reduced fuel economy because ethanol contains less energy per gallon than gasoline. Your hybrid vehicle is not designed to use E85 (85% ethanol)."

This is on page 242 of the owner's manual.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I'm not running the truck on E85
Nor would I even consider doing so.

But not because of the wording in the owners manual, which actually has nothing to do with the Powerboost being a hybrid or is the Hybrid any different than the 3.5 Ecoboost, but rather because even the Ecoboost can't run on E85 unless you address several factors that are not compatible with it. (I suspect the wording is identical in the 3.5 Ecoboost manual)

Primarily the oem engine management system (tune) can't accommodate it. The in-tank (lpf) fuel pump can't deliver the fuel rate. Even the High Pressure Fuel pump will be insufficient at certain rpms.

So that's not what I'm doing or would want to.
I AM using E85 in a quantity that is beyond E15 though. (by some amount: E16.6-E20)

E15 would be ~4.5 gallons of ethanol per tank full.
E85 would be anywhere between 15 & 21+ gallons of ethanol per tank full.
Admittedly I am trying 2.5 + 2.5 gallons (1/2 gallon more than E15, which is acceptable per manual)

If this specific station is really 70% ethanol, then 5 gallons of fuel would be 3.5 gallons
So 2.5 gallons + 3.5 = 6 gallons. 1.5 gallons beyond what the manual states as officially designed for.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am even approaching a legitimate risk of harm. In fact, and this is going to raise some folks eyebrows, but I believe there's more risk in running this motor long-term on poor quality 87 E10 than there is running E20 (which is what I'm at if this E85 is 70% ethanol)

I would bet I'm running closer to E16.6

Barely tipping beyond E15 :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
OK, I grabbed a couple of pids based on description... It looks like they are redundant, so I will remove one of them.

1. Is one of them actually preferable for the mission over the other?
2. And is there another pid that would be worthy for keeping an eye on to make sure I'm not taxing something running stock tune at as much as E20?

This is at idle with "Eco Idle" enabled, which is intended to charge the EV battery quicker, thus shortening the amount of time the ICE is on.

Vehicle Gauge Odometer Cyclocomputer Measuring instrument


This is the value it resorts to in EV mode.

Speedometer Motor vehicle Gauge Vehicle Measuring instrument
 
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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I think thats a good set, but to be clear I did not stay in a holiday inn last night
Thanks for the reply and the laugh. :)

Since the spark related Pids look redundant, I have a spot for another pid. If there's nothing more important related to monitoring ethanol impact, I guess I'll put Boost pid back on the available screen real estate. It too is redundant with the dash boost gauge, although the numerical boost gauge is easier to read.


Steady state 45mph cruising:

Speedometer Vehicle Plant Odometer Motor vehicle


Feeding it some coal (not WOT) drops spark advance to the 20-22° range consistently, but the streets are slick this morning and I couldn't multi-task safely with the camera.

I still get excellent small town errand fuel economy, so no big hit for the current E85/89 cocktail VS straight E10 93

Gauge Speedometer Font Technology Auto part
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
Starting to learn the relationship of the "spark" to the other variables. It's a new PID for me to digest.

Did a 70mph cruise run and for the most part this is representative of that:

Vehicle Speedometer Gauge Automotive tire Motor vehicle


If it was a video, rather than a still shot, you would see

1. The Spark ADV value is far more weighted than the Spark BTDC value. Although in the picture above I caught them both at identical value of 21°, in reality the Spark BTDC value is constantly changing and can be 1-2 degrees higher or lower than the Spark ADV value. Also both of the Spark values appear to reflect the - KR value fluctuations. The higher the - KR, both Spark Pids increase.

2. The KR is still 98% negative. I was expecting the 89 fuel would introduce positive KR and the result would be OAR finally coming off its perch. But even aggressive throttle and boost are not dragging OAR down, although the Spark value will drop into the teens.

It's still early, but it looks like the conservative E85 cocktail, using 89 octane fuel as the base fuel, is still a pretty decent performer? Although the hit on fuel economy is starting to look like 1.X mpg compared to straight E10 93. So that would drop range for the tank by a bit more than a gallon, eating into the $9.70 savings considerably. This would NOT be an economical bonanza VS just buying premium fuel.
 

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I filled E85 - 20% today and drove about 70 miles. Gauge is saying 14.2mpg so far but there was a lot of sitting in stop go traffic.
It's stock and I don't have any gauges, not sure if I was supposed to do anything so see how it goes for 36 gallons.
I did seem to notice quicker take off but really nothing over 30% pedal since my wife and daughter with me today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
How many gallons of E85 in that 36 gallons?
And what fuel was the remainder?
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Cool. Thanks for the data point. Looking forward to your thoughts after using the cocktail for a few hundred miles.

You mentioned 20%, but was that you estimating that your E85 was a high (70+%) ethanol source? Or do you have a way of knowing?

I don't have a clue with my new found source that suddenly popped up.
 

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I really don't know and no way of testing it, just a round about guess and I am sure not accurate.
I am just doing this out of curiosity more than anything with towing, and not expecting any grand result but have to say I tried it once.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Understood.
I'm not being exact either, but I am monitoring PIDs as real evidence to fill in for the chemistry unknowns. :)
 
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