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What I find interesting is that some folks have ignored their Gen1 clack on start and continue to drive their trucks for many thousands of miles.

While most will immediately take it in and get it addressed. (and we all know that the repair procedure varies from one place to the next on what parts are changed out)

I'm guessing you can suffer the actual same clacking noise and yet have a considerable difference in how much damage that noise represents? The clack itself is a symptom. But it could mean you have a head cold, or you have pneumonia.

Too bad the exploratory procedure to find out is intensive. You may as well treat the head cold as pneumonia once you are in there.

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So if I understand correctly the pin gets stuck due to wear and lack of oil? And doing the foot to floor method, spinning the engine slowly and allowing oil to reach this area frees up the pin to lock in properly?
I was sharing this as a specific situation. This is one thing that can happen. Will not be the exact case every time

Here you. An see worn pin detent
 

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What I find interesting is that some folks have ignored their Gen1 clack on start and continue to drive their trucks for many thousands of miles.

While most will immediately take it in and get it addressed. (and we all know that the repair procedure varies from one place to the next on what parts are changed out)

I'm guessing you can suffer the actual same clacking noise and yet have a considerable difference in how much damage that noise represents? The clack itself is a symptom. But it could mean you have a head cold, or you have pneumonia.

Too bad the exploratory procedure to find out is intensive. You may as well treat the head cold as pneumonia once you are in there.

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Very true. My suggestion is never let it go unless your in a tight position financially in which you have to. No drawing blood from a stone.

There are about 3 major things that will help make the timing drive on these engines last far longer. It was worked on but is tabled at the moment but not for long.

This photo you can see the pass side master phaser which note is on the tensioning side of the drive. The other phaser is just from the other intake on driver side bank



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So at the risk of what you say being misinterpreted, is there NO difference whatsoever in the clack symptoms? What I mean is...... Let's say it was the very first time you ever heard the cold start clack and it may have been super short, or it may have creeped you out because it lasted 2 seconds.

Or let's say you heard it once and then the next 30 mornings you didn't, VS you hear it 3 or 4 times a week.

Or let's say you thought you might have heard it towards the end of your oil life, but immediately changed oil and filter and now you haven't heard it again for a month.

See where I'm going with this?

I'm just convinced that the clack is a symptom, but irritatingly vague as to what it actually represents. While I am willing to admit it's never good news, I'm not sure every truck clacks for the same exact cause and condition.



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Ok so it sounds like in the specific case you mentioned, the worn pin detent prevented the phaser from being locked in at startup. Engine starts and it clacks until the pin finally seats in the hole. Interesting. So why does the foot to floor method work? Does it simply do a more gentle less violent spin over of the engine until the pin drops in? Or does the buildup of oil pressure force it home quicker or something?
 

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I bought my 2013 used with 55k miles on it back in summer of 15. I first heard the clack on startup at like 58k miles Dec-ish of 15. It never became common however, and to this day I only hear it about once every 4-6 months and there is no rhyme or reason for it. I did try some 0-30 just to see if it would make it happen more often and it happened all of 2-3 times in that 6 months, then I tried 10-30 and it still happened once. I can't say that cold oil viscosity made any substantial difference, but I'm at least lucky it hasn't gotten worse like it does for some guys.

Eventually I'm going to trade this thing back in to the same dealer that sold it to me and not even mention it to them.
Figure that is fair play since they told me "not to worry about it" at 58k miles and then once I hit 60k told me it wouldn't be covered under warranty any more.
 

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So at the risk of what you say being misinterpreted, is there NO difference whatsoever in the clack symptoms? What I mean is...... Let's say it was the very first time you ever heard the cold start clack and it may have been super short, or it may have creeped you out because it lasted 2 seconds.

Or let's say you heard it once and then the next 30 mornings you didn't, VS you hear it 3 or 4 times a week.

Or let's say you thought you might have heard it towards the end of your oil life, but immediately changed oil and filter and now you haven't heard it again for a month.

See where I'm going with this?

I'm just convinced that the clack is a symptom, but irritatingly vague as to what it actually represents. While I am willing to admit it's never good news, I'm not sure every truck clacks for the same exact cause and condition.



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That clacking is oil draining back on a soak, and phasers starting with no oil in them. That is the reason for the noise. The effect is worn and accelerated wear on parts. The secondary tensioner needs to be flipped on passenger side head


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I bought my 2013 used with 55k miles on it back in summer of 15. I first heard the clack on startup at like 58k miles Dec-ish of 16. In never became common however and to this day I only hear it about once every 4-6 months and there is no rhyme or reason for it. I did try some 0-30 just to see if it would make it happen more often and it happened all of 2-3 times in that 6 months, then I tried 10-30 and it still happened once. I can't say that cold oil viscosity made andysubstantial difference but I'm at least lucky it hasn't gotten worse like it does for some guys.

Eventually I'm going to trade this thing back in to the same dealer that sold it to me and not even mention it to them.
Figure that is fair play since they told me "not to worry about it" at 58k miles and then once I hit 60k told me it wouldn't be covered under warranty anymore.
What a bunch of savage humans. That really chaps my a$$
 

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So at the risk of what you say being misinterpreted, is there NO difference whatsoever in the clack symptoms? What I mean is...... Let's say it was the very first time you ever heard the cold start clack and it may have been super short, or it may have creeped you out because it lasted 2 seconds.

Or let's say you heard it once and then the next 30 mornings you didn't, VS you hear it 3 or 4 times a week.

Or let's say you thought you might have heard it towards the end of your oil life, but immediately changed oil and filter and now you haven't heard it again for a month.

See where I'm going with this?

I'm just convinced that the clack is a symptom, but irritatingly vague as to what it actually represents. While I am willing to admit it's never good news, I'm not sure every truck clacks for the same exact cause and condition.



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That clacking is oil draining back on a soak, and phasers starting with no oil in them. That is the reason for the noise. The effect is worn and accelerated wear on parts. The secondary tensioner needs to be flipped on passenger side head


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‘11 with 127k miles. Mine will clack for 1 second after about 3 or more days of a soak. Does not do this after an overnight or 2-3 day soak. Just started about two months ago. Any DIY options or should I take it in. Pretty good mechanical skills but not a rebuilder. Mostly part swaps like water pumps, timing chains.
 

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Hi everyone,

New member here, wanted to get some input on these 2 codes P0016 and P0299. My truck is a 2013 F150 3.5 Ecoboost with 161k miles and after doing much research I came to find out I most likely needed a timing chain replacement. Had the (timing chain rattle) noise with the cold starts for over a year but didnt know what it was until this week when I pulled these 2 codes that popped up. Truck was shuttering some between 55 to 75 mpg, acting sluggish, having to gear down a lot. Cleared both codes and truck drove great for about 75 miles, then both codes came on again with same symptoms.

Took it into the dealership a few days ago and confirmed I need to replace timing chain for $2700 which Im fine with. I spoke to them today to see when the work might be done, will take about a week. During the conversation, they told me there is a chance I may need to also replace the turbos but they wont know until they check them out. I asked them how much this might be and they said around $3k. I then told them I may just want to put a new motor in it because I have had no issues with this truck and it is still in great shape, those miles are mostly highway miles between work, havent really towed much with it. They are putting a price together for new engine replacement, have no idea what this will cost, guessing $10k to $12k, should know soon.

Wanted to get some input from people who have experienced this . Im hoping the turbo code P0299 just went off due to the timing chain issue, they both came on at the same time, even after resetting codes, think it would be a coincidence for both the turbo code to come on at the same exact time the timing code came on and it drove fine for 75 miles. I planned on keeping this truck for at least 250k miles and hopefully more. Do you all think the turbos may also need replaced? Would you just go ahead and replace the motor? If I elect not to do the motor replacement and then find out the turbos needs replaced while doing the timing chain, I will juts pay for the turbos to be replaced so will be about $5700 for turbos and timing chain. if the motor replacement is around $10k I will have to think hard on what to do, if its much more than that I may take my chances hoping turbos will be ok.

How would you all proceed? Im currently building a house so finances are locked on buying a new truck with bank until I close in about 8 months, terrible timing for this to happen.

Thanks,
Brad
 

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Hi everyone,

New member here, wanted to get some input on these 2 codes P0016 and P0299. My truck is a 2013 F150 3.5 Ecoboost with 161k miles and after doing much research I came to find out I most likely needed a timing chain replacement. Had the (timing chain rattle) noise with the cold starts for over a year but didnt know what it was until this week when I pulled these 2 codes that popped up. Truck was shuttering some between 55 to 75 mpg, acting sluggish, having to gear down a lot. Cleared both codes and truck drove great for about 75 miles, then both codes came on again with same symptoms.

Took it into the dealership a few days ago and confirmed I need to replace timing chain for $2700 which Im fine with. I spoke to them today to see when the work might be done, will take about a week. During the conversation, they told me there is a chance I may need to also replace the turbos but they wont know until they check them out. I asked them how much this might be and they said around $3k. I then told them I may just want to put a new motor in it because I have had no issues with this truck and it is still in great shape, those miles are mostly highway miles between work, havent really towed much with it. They are putting a price together for new engine replacement, have no idea what this will cost, guessing $10k to $12k, should know soon.

Wanted to get some input from people who have experienced this . Im hoping the turbo code P0299 just went off due to the timing chain issue, they both came on at the same time, even after resetting codes, think it would be a coincidence for both the turbo code to come on at the same exact time the timing code came on and it drove fine for 75 miles. I planned on keeping this truck for at least 250k miles and hopefully more. Do you all think the turbos may also need replaced? Would you just go ahead and replace the motor? If I elect not to do the motor replacement and then find out the turbos needs replaced while doing the timing chain, I will juts pay for the turbos to be replaced so will be about $5700 for turbos and timing chain. if the motor replacement is around $10k I will have to think hard on what to do, if its much more than that I may take my chances hoping turbos will be ok.

How would you all proceed? Im currently building a house so finances are locked on buying a new truck with bank until I close in about 8 months, terrible timing for this to happen.

Thanks,
Brad
Motor swap doesn't make sense to me unless there is good evidence some horrible damage has been done.
 

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Sounds like you have more money than time or skills to DIY your issues. I would do the timing chain and see how it runs. Clear the codes and see if you get the turbo one to pop up again. The turbos are toward the back of the motor and it's a completely different job than the timing chain. You can always bring it back into the dealer for the turbos if needed. Don't fall for the "bundle" trap. They may try to give you a better deal to just "fix" it all. I wouldn't pursue this, as I have found that most dealers will take your money no matter what. $3K is an average price for the turbos with parts and labor. Unless they are going to cut the overall bill by 25% or more, I would hold off on the turbo "fix" and continue to see if they are a problem after the timing chain is fixed.
 

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Hi everyone,

New member here, wanted to get some input on these 2 codes P0016 and P0299. My truck is a 2013 F150 3.5 Ecoboost with 161k miles and after doing much research I came to find out I most likely needed a timing chain replacement. Had the (timing chain rattle) noise with the cold starts for over a year but didnt know what it was until this week when I pulled these 2 codes that popped up. Truck was shuttering some between 55 to 75 mpg, acting sluggish, having to gear down a lot. Cleared both codes and truck drove great for about 75 miles, then both codes came on again with same symptoms.

Took it into the dealership a few days ago and confirmed I need to replace timing chain for $2700 which Im fine with. I spoke to them today to see when the work might be done, will take about a week. During the conversation, they told me there is a chance I may need to also replace the turbos but they wont know until they check them out. I asked them how much this might be and they said around $3k. I then told them I may just want to put a new motor in it because I have had no issues with this truck and it is still in great shape, those miles are mostly highway miles between work, havent really towed much with it. They are putting a price together for new engine replacement, have no idea what this will cost, guessing $10k to $12k, should know soon.

Wanted to get some input from people who have experienced this . Im hoping the turbo code P0299 just went off due to the timing chain issue, they both came on at the same time, even after resetting codes, think it would be a coincidence for both the turbo code to come on at the same exact time the timing code came on and it drove fine for 75 miles. I planned on keeping this truck for at least 250k miles and hopefully more. Do you all think the turbos may also need replaced? Would you just go ahead and replace the motor? If I elect not to do the motor replacement and then find out the turbos needs replaced while doing the timing chain, I will juts pay for the turbos to be replaced so will be about $5700 for turbos and timing chain. if the motor replacement is around $10k I will have to think hard on what to do, if its much more than that I may take my chances hoping turbos will be ok.

How would you all proceed? Im currently building a house so finances are locked on buying a new truck with bank until I close in about 8 months, terrible timing for this to happen.

Thanks,
Brad
It's not the timing chain itself persay! You need the full and complete timing phaser TSB done to your engine which is complete changing of the phasers, solenoids. Cams and timing chains, tensioner etc.

Doing just the timing chain itself is a complete waste of money.
 

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It's not the timing chain itself persay! You need the full and complete timing phaser TSB done to your engine which is complete changing of the phasers, solenoids. Cams and timing chains, tensioner etc.

Doing just the timing chain itself is a complete waste of money.
This is a very important point. Before you approve the dealer to do the work, find out EXACTLY what parts they are going to replace. Some dealers do the job more completely than others. If done wrong, you'll be hearing the issue again after 10K miles.
 

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Sounds like you have more money than time or skills to DIY your issues. I would do the timing chain and see how it runs. Clear the codes and see if you get the turbo one to pop up again. The turbos are toward the back of the motor and it's a completely different job than the timing chain. You can always bring it back into the dealer for the turbos if needed. Don't fall for the "bundle" trap. They may try to give you a better deal to just "fix" it all. I wouldn't pursue this, as I have found that most dealers will take your money no matter what. $3K is an average price for the turbos with parts and labor. Unless they are going to cut the overall bill by 25% or more, I would hold off on the turbo "fix" and continue to see if they are a problem after the timing chain is fixed.
Seconded! I also agree with DNA Dan's recommend to have the dealer list EVERY part that will be replaced. Important from both a quality of work standpoint and also to have something in writing should you have to go back because the work wasn't done to your satisfaction. As far as turbo replacement goes, it ain't broke now, so.... :cool: Good luck, keep us posted!
 

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Just checking in. I've got a 2011, bought just out of warranty, rattle started at 65,000 miles in October of 2015. I've gone 2 years and 30,000 miles with the rattle. I tried different oils, filters, no difference. There are only three things that have an effect on whether or not it rattles: 1) how long you park it 2) what the temperature outside is and 3) how long you crank it over. I've gotten pretty good at knowing how long to crank it. 10-12 seconds does it in most situations, but if it sits more than a few days in the summer it takes up to 15-20 seconds. I'm coming into non-rattle season here in Minnesota, the colder the better.

I've had my cams checked once, they were .5 degrees out of spec. Mileage is still great, just got 570 miles on a tank which was about 21 mpg. Power is great. No plans to do anything right now. I put in a magnetic drain plug last oil change to check for debris in the oil, we'll see in 1500 miles if I have any metal in my oil. Thanks to all you guys for all the information. Two years ago when I read this thread it seemed like Ford didn't have things figured out on how to fix it, and that still seems to be the situation. So I'll wait.
Still ignoring my rattle, now at 113,600 miles. So that's about 50k miles and almost 4 years of either ignoring or avoiding (foot to the floor method) the rattle. No noticeable difference, but I do use the motocraft filters and Mobil 1 5w30. Still only 3 things that matter on the rattling - time, temp and how long you crank it over. Embarrassing to crank over your truck for 10+ seconds when there are people around, but better than the death rattle and better than dropping $2700+ when the truck runs fine. Hopefully a tree falls on it and I get a big insurance check. One minor change - I did notice more metal dust (very, very fine particles) on the magnetic drain plug last oil change... that plus the developing rust may convince me to trade it in on a 2015 with the 2.7L.....
 

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Still ignoring my rattle, now at 113,600 miles. So that's about 50k miles and almost 4 years of either ignoring or avoiding (foot to the floor method) the rattle. No noticeable difference, but I do use the motocraft filters and Mobil 1 5w30. Still only 3 things that matter on the rattling - time, temp and how long you crank it over. Embarrassing to crank over your truck for 10+ seconds when there are people around, but better than the death rattle and better than dropping $2700+ when the truck runs fine. Hopefully a tree falls on it and I get a big insurance check. One minor change - I did notice more metal dust (very, very fine particles) on the magnetic drain plug last oil change... that plus the developing rust may convince me to trade it in on a 2015 with the 2.7L.....
It's posts like yours that has me diligent in my cold start efforts even on a truck that doesn't make even the slightest funny sounds. (Or I'm conveniently deaf)

I absolutely can state that "time" is part of the equation for how long I have to crank before I get oil pressure. Most short sits (1-2 days) will build pressure before the 5 second crank gets used up. But yesterday I started my truck for the first time in 2 weeks. I expected it to take a second start attempt to build pressure, but it ALMOST took the entire 10 seconds! I mean I didn't even get 2lbs in the first 5 seconds, and it hit 18-20 at about 9 seconds of cranking in my head.

Anyways, while I don't want to celebrate you having ANY kind of issue with your truck, I DO kinda love hearing that you have driven your truck for many thousands of miles and months after experiencing the clack. If I ever hear mine clack, I hope to be as calm and strategic as you are.

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It's posts like yours that has me diligent in my cold start efforts even on a truck that doesn't make even the slightest funny sounds. (Or I'm conveniently deaf)

I absolutely can state that "time" is part of the equation for how long I have to crank before I get oil pressure. Most short sits (1-2 days) will build pressure before the 5 second crank gets used up. But yesterday I started my truck for the first time in 2 weeks. I expected it to take a second start attempt to build pressure, but it ALMOST took the entire 10 seconds! I mean I didn't even get 2lbs in the first 5 seconds, and it hit 18-20 at about 9 seconds of cranking in my head.

Anyways, while I don't want to celebrate you having ANY kind of issue with your truck, I DO kinda love hearing that you have driven your truck for many thousands of miles and months after experiencing the clack. If I ever hear mine clack, I hope to be as calm and strategic as you are.

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You may have mentioned but how are you seeing the oil pressure when doing that procedure?

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Still ignoring my rattle, now at 113,600 miles. So that's about 50k miles and almost 4 years of either ignoring or avoiding (foot to the floor method) the rattle. No noticeable difference, but I do use the motocraft filters and Mobil 1 5w30. Still only 3 things that matter on the rattling - time, temp and how long you crank it over. Embarrassing to crank over your truck for 10+ seconds when there are people around, but better than the death rattle and better than dropping $2700+ when the truck runs fine. Hopefully a tree falls on it and I get a big insurance check. One minor change - I did notice more metal dust (very, very fine particles) on the magnetic drain plug last oil change... that plus the developing rust may convince me to trade it in on a 2015 with the 2.7L.....
Regarding temps as a contributor to rattle, is it higher temps that cause more rattle or lower temps?
 
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