[Steagan]

2 issues with my 2019 F150 Lariat FX4 with 3.5 eco.

1) On-going startup noises during warm-ish starts. This noise does eventually go away after running for a few minutes. If I take a 30min commute home from work, truck sits for an hour or so and I start it up it sounds like this.

February 3, 2023

youtube.com

2) Humming noise from front end during high speeds 60-70MPH and is most prominent around 65mph on days above 32f degrees and is easily to hear. The noise picks up when coasting or going down roads with a steeper grade. This droning noise also completely stops when you accelerate. Immediately as you decelerate, the noise starts. It is almost as if it is a wooing noise on and off depending how you hit the gas pedal. The noise still occurs if I put it in neutral and does not get any quieter or louder when turning left or right. I was unable to capture the sound on video.

Service history on the truck:

10/10/2021
Ford performs recall 21B10 for startup noise. Noise went away.

3/23/2022 36k miles
Grinding noise from front of vehicle going 10-30mph and goes away in 4WD.
Ford does TSB 20-2307 and caps IWE vacuum line and problem is fixed.

9/26/2022 43k miles
Start up noise returns and Ford performs recall 21N08. Startup noise is still there after recall.
Ford performs recall 201N03 to replace cam phasers with part CAM 556012 ML3Z-6C525-A.

10/31/2022 44k miles
Startup noise returns. Ford verified noise and finds TSB 22-2200 for concern. Removes engine cover and replaces cam phasers again with part CAM 568599 HL3Z-6C525-CD + cam phaser solenoid on exhaust side.
Ford also says some noise from turbos can be common due to some of the tolerances and if their was a mechanical concern they would set a code and will not replace turbos.

1/10/2023 47,203 miles
Replaced tires all around with load range SL Pathfinder AT's from Discount Tire. (softer 3 ply tires, but slightly more aggressive tread pattern than stock load range c, 6 ply Goodyear Wrangler Kevlar's)

1/19/2023
I notice a droning noise shortly after replacing tires. Again, this droning noise comes from the front end during high speeds 60-70MPH and is most prominent around 65mph on days above 32f degrees and is easily audible to hear. The noise picks up when coasting or going down steeper grades. This droning noise also completely stops when you accelerate. Immediately as you decelerate, the noise starts. I was unable to capture the sound on video.

I got them rotated and balanced and the noise remained in the front end during highway speeds.
- Noticed clunky shifting from 1 to 3 and 3 to 5 and sometimes would hang in neutral and shift hard into gear throwing you into the wheel.

2/13/2023 48k miles
Truck is returned back to me and still chatters during warm-ish starts and the humming/drone sounds going freeway speeds still continues(droning noise described top of post).
Ford struggles to find any noise at all.
A few days pass and ford verifies transmission problems and cleans the valve body, replaces filter and fluid. This has fixed my transmission issues so far.
Another day passes and ford says they find a leak on the pinion seal and used a stethoscope to verify bearing noise within the front differential.
Ford completely rebuilds the front diff.
Ends the invoice stating there still is some slight noise from the tires.
Inspection video:

Ford states there is a GSB and the chattering is from the actuator (I believe it is the wastegate actuator) and is considered normal(seen and explained in inspection video above).

3/3/2023 48,905 miles
Brought truck to tires plus for an alignment and said all suspension components looks good and did very little adjustments to the toe and camber on the truck.

3/10/2023 49k miles
Droning noise still present and droving me batty. Starting to think it really it the tires and maybe I have a bad batch all around so bring it to discount tires. Long story short there, they gave me a replacement of the same tires. Did not get rid of the noise!

3/15/2023
As someone suggested, I reversed TSB 20-2307 by uncapping the iwe vaccum lines above the brake booster and reconnected a vacuum hose. Unfortunately, the droning noise persisted and the grinding from the iwe's came back immediately so I put the caps back on to get rid of iwe grinding noise.

3/17/2029 49,400 miles
Change out tires to Michellin Defender LTX M/S at discount tire in a last effort to rule out tires causing the droning noise. Droning noise still present.

In conclusion:

• Droning noise from front end still continues and I certainly do not need a stethoscope to hear the noise while driving.
• The chattering noises that Ford claims normal, never existed before the cam phasers were replaced and claims there is a GSB for normal noise on cold starts for an actuator due to the difference in metals and causes the rattle until it warms up.
• My transmission issue is fixed as of now.

I'm at a loss and don't know what to do at this point. I plan on bringing in to a different dealership to get another opinion. Has anybody else ran into the droning noise or the noise the actuator creates?
My main concern is the droning noise while driving. I have read over a few threads it may be possible that there could be an issue with the transfer case or driveshaft? I have a 5k mile road trip coming up soon and any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Boatwaco]

Welcome to the forum!
Can you provide any more details related to the problem?
Just kidding!
I would focus on the tires. Even though the replacement set didn’t eliminate the droning noise, it doesn’t mean they’re not the cause.
Is it possible for Discount Tire to swap you to another tire?

 

[Steagan]

Welcome to the forum!
Can you provide any more details related to the problem?
Just kidding!
I would focus on the tires. Even though the replacement set didn’t eliminate the droning noise, it doesn’t mean they’re not the cause.
Is it possible for Discount Tire to swap you to another tire?

😄 Thanks! I made the call and upgraded to Michellin Defenders today and the droning noise is still there. On a side note, these are a great tires.

 

[Boatwaco]

Well there’s alway Good with the Bad (we’ve got a thread about that somewhere?).
There’s also a thread today about IWE failure even though they’ve been “fixed”. It’s possible that might be an issue?

 

[Justinjs]

I don't have the attention right now to read all of it.

Humming...iwe.

 

[Steagan]

I don't have the attention right now to read all of it.

Humming...iwe.

Now that I have tires that are more quiet. I now also hear what kind of resembles a grinding sound while coming to a slow stop from 5-15mph. What a headache. Back to the dealership it goes...

 

[snakebitten]

At some point do you become skeptical that the dealership is going to take any different approach than previous attempts?

I'd find a buddy and on a quiet spot in a parking lot do a few slow downs with one of you outside the truck.

Identify if it's front/rear. Right left. On the brakes/off the brakes. Steering straight/turning sharply. 2WD/4WD/4A.......

It's got to be something that can be narrowed down to some degree.

 

[DNA Dan]

I don't understand why you aren't looking at the front differential. The guy in the video shows the seal is leaking and says the he took a stethoscope to it and could hear the bearing is making noise. He then backs it up by saying that since the shaft is always spinning, you'd still hear it in 2wd. Am I missing something here?

 

[Steagan]

At some point do you become skeptical that the dealership is going to take any different approach than previous attempts?

I'd find a buddy and on a quiet spot in a parking lot do a few slow downs with one of you outside the truck.

Identify if it's front/rear. Right left. On the brakes/off the brakes. Steering straight/turning sharply. 2WD/4WD/4A.......

It's got to be something that can be narrowed down to some degree.

I'd say I'm to that point.

I don't understand why you aren't looking at the front differential. The guy in the video shows the seal is leaking and says the he took a stethoscope to it and could hear the bearing is making noise. He then backs it up by saying that since the shaft is always spinning, you'd still hear it in 2wd. Am I missing something here?

The front diff was rebuilt or are you referring that it's the IWE's since they lines were capped and are always engaged?

 

[DNA Dan]

Rebuilt since the video? Have you confirmed they replaced the bearings? If you've eliminated the IWE then its something drive line related. Is it worse or better in 4wd? Louder or softer when you get on it? Or is it speed related?

 

[Steagan]

Rebuilt since the video? Have you confirmed they replaced the bearings? If you've eliminated the IWE then its something drive line related. Is it worse or better in 4wd? Louder or softer when you get on it? Or is it speed related?

Yes, it was done when the truck was at the shop in February.

Invoice

http://imgur.com/a/0RLxqww

I can't say IWE's are eliminated just yet. I notice the droning noises during 60-65 mph. Gets as loud as it does when the truck has been driven for at least 20 minutes. The droning noise goes away as I accelerate and drones back in as I let off the gas and/or coast down hills. Being in 4A or 4H nor does not have any effect. I've tried putting into neutral while driving, but that does not alter the noises either.

And after replacing the tires again, I recently noticed a low grinding noise when braking to a complete stop from 5-15 mph.

I'll be calling tomorrow to schedule an appt at a different dealership to have them check the IWE's and front hubs.

 

[DNA Dan]

I think you may have two issues here at play. I have never head the IWEs as a droning sound, to me the IWE is more of a grinding sound which is typically heard at low speeds. The droning sound on acceleration is typically a bearing/differential/driveshaft issue because you're applying lateral forces. Can you tell if the sound is front from rear? I mean if you have IWE issues up front and rear diff issues in the back it probably just sounds like it's coming from under the truck. If you know the front diff is good, and it doesn't seem to be a rear end source, then I'd probably start looking at the transmission/transfer case/driveshaft/u-joints. Any vibrations in the floor, through the shifter, or steering wheel?

Unfortunately Ford is bad at "Diagnosing" these types of issues with no codes present. I would be sure to schedule a tech to drive the vehicle so you can point out the sounds to them.

 

[DNA Dan]

Okay, just read the service report. I'd have them check their work or perhaps the drive shaft is wobbling and causing their work to go bad. Something is causing this to "reappear" after having the bearings serviced unless they did a poor job to begin with. Have them see if the front diff is okay, or if it's showing signs of abnormal wear again.

 

[Steagan]

I think you may have two issues here at play. I have never head the IWEs as a droning sound, to me the IWE is more of a grinding sound which is typically heard at low speeds. The droning sound on acceleration is typically a bearing/differential/driveshaft issue because you're applying lateral forces. Can you tell if the sound is front from rear? I mean if you have IWE issues up front and rear diff issues in the back it probably just sounds like it's coming from under the truck. If you know the front diff is good, and it doesn't seem to be a rear end source, then I'd probably start looking at the transmission/transfer case/driveshaft/u-joints. Any vibrations in the floor, through the shifter, or steering wheel?

Unfortunately Ford is bad at "Diagnosing" these types of issues with no codes present. I would be sure to schedule a tech to drive the vehicle so you can point out the sounds to them.

The noise all feels and sounds like it's coming from the whole front half.

Noise remains the same regardless of steering right or left (tested but ya only can test it so much going that fast lol).

When the noise does happen, I feel vibration in the pedals and steering wheel.

Thank you for all your input.