[N4HHE]

An expensive oil change is cheaper than an expensive engine repair.

So? Are you trying to claim only one oil change is required to avoid an overhaul?

How many oil changes to postpone an overhaul? The 465,000 mile 2.7 got 10,000 mile drains at Ford dealers. Was replaced due to fears of pending transmission problems.

 

[Boatwaco]

So? Are you trying to claim only one oil change is required to avoid an overhaul?

I didn’t read that in that way. I read this:

An expensive oil change is cheaper than an expensive engine repair.

As saying doing an oil change “earlier” than the schedule says is expensive as you’re doing more frequent oil changes. But the extra oil changes, if done more frequently than the schedule, will still cost less than engine repairs.
Just my take on it - I could be wrong.

 

[F150RTR]

So? Are you trying to claim only one oil change is required to avoid an overhaul?

How many oil changes to postpone an overhaul? The 465,000 mile 2.7 got 10,000 mile drains at Ford dealers. Was replaced due to fears of pending transmission problems.

If I had wanted to say that only one oil change would postpone an overhaul, I would have said, "ONE expensive oil change is cheaper than an expensive engine repair." Better oil gets better results, IMO. Kudos to you for getting that amount of mileage using house oil.

 

[N4HHE]

If I had wanted to say that only one oil change would postpone an overhaul, I would have said, "ONE expensive oil change is cheaper than an expensive engine repair." Better oil gets better results, IMO. Kudos to you for getting that amount of mileage using house oil.

Correct you did not specify oil drain frequency for your claim of postponing overhauls. And you are still hiding behind your unfounded claim that accelerated drain intervals provide any advantage at all.

Exactly what is the cost benefit ratio? You authoritatively spoke as if you knew. Why do you think Ford has not already done the research and math before setting 10,000 miles 12 months? Clearly if Ford honestly could say 3000 miles / 3 months was cost effective then dealers would be ecstatic.

 

[N4HHE]

I didn’t read that in that way. I read this:

An expensive oil change is cheaper than an expensive engine repair.

As saying doing an oil change “earlier” than the schedule says is expensive as you’re doing more frequent oil changes. But the extra oil changes, if done more frequently than the schedule, will still cost less than engine repairs.
Just my take on it - I could be wrong.

An expensive oil change …

”An” is one. One expensive oil change vs engine repair.

But what is it? 50 additional expensive oil changes? Where is the evidence 5000 mile drain engine lasts longer than a 10,000 mile engine? Where is the evidence oil has anything to do with the 3.5EB phaser problems? Plenty of, “Changed often, most expensive full synthetic, failed anyway.” (As if “full synthetic” is a performance or quality specification.)

 

[snakebitten]

Are you saying Ford decided to recommend 10,000 oil changes based on it would provide the longest life possibility of the engine?
That is what they decided, admittedly. But I will never believe a group of Ford engineers sat in a conference room and concluded the recommended oil change interval based on a criteria anywhere close to longest life.

Ford has a couple of incentives that I can think of. Selling vehicles and reducing warranty costs. Both of those are met at a fraction of 450,000 miles.

450,000 mile vehicles are outliers.
We all want our vehicles to last that long. But no oil change interval will get you that, statistically speaking.

 

[Boatwaco]

Well now, how about we get back on topic and discuss Iridium plugs?

 

[ITTOG]

You rebel!
🤠

Yes usually. I don't know why being a contrarian fits me. I often ponder that.

But the real reason for my comment about not following with early maintenance is because when I was building cars and engines the less you mess with everything the longer it will last. I know there are world class mechanics that still follow that line of thinking. So far I have never experienced anything to make me change my mind.

Also, I don't view my truck, or any vehicle, like most on this site. To me it is depreciating piece of junk, kind of like furniture, that I have just to get me where I need to go.

Sorry, I know that was probably much more than you cared to know.

 

[ITTOG]

Well now, how about we get back on topic and discuss Iridium plugs?

Yeah, sorry to send us down the rabbit hole.

 

[snakebitten]

Hey, it's a spark plug thread that broke into an oil thread!
You didn't do anything wrong whatsoever.

It just happens.

A phenomenon that both fascinates me AND is kinda fun, if you can remind yourself it's a bunch of guys just blowing off some after work steam. Harmless, for the most part.

 

[Boatwaco]

@ITTOG - I thank you, and everyone else, for their participation and personally value having differing opinions expressed. As said by @snakebitten we are just a bunch of guys expressing opinions. The word "bunch" is very appropriate - like a bunch of grapes or bananas. From a distance, the grapes or bananas all look similar but when you get close, they are all uniquely different. We are the same type of bunch of F150 Ecoboost owners. From a distance we appear similar. Get up close and read what we say and see how our opinions differ and it is clear we are not all the same. It is the differences between us that makes this forum so valuable. If we agreed on everything, I wouldn't hang out here.

My rebel comment to you was totally in jest. Please don't take that any differently.

All of this has made me hungry - I'm gonna go grab some grapes and a banana for breakfast now.
🍇🍌

Edit - it didn’t happen unless there are pictures, right?

 

[ITTOG]

@ITTOG - I thank you, and everyone else, for their participation and personally value having differing opinions expressed. As said by @snakebitten we are just a bunch of guys expressing opinions. The word "bunch" is very appropriate - like a bunch of grapes or bananas. From a distance, the grapes or bananas all look similar but when you get close, they are all uniquely different. We are the same type of bunch of F150 Ecoboost owners. From a distance we appear similar. Get up close and read what we say and see how our opinions differ and it is clear we are not all the same. It is the differences between us that makes this forum so valuable. If we agreed on everything, I wouldn't hang out here.

My rebel comment to you was totally in jest. Please don't take that any differently.

All of this has made me hungry - I'm gonna go grab some grapes and a banana for breakfast now.
🍇🍌

Edit - it didn’t happen unless there are pictures, right?

View attachment 185045

No worries. I didn't view your comment or @snakebitten's negatively.

 

[butthead]

Hey, it's a spark plug thread that broke into an oil thread!
You didn't do anything wrong whatsoever.

It just happens.

A phenomenon that both fascinates me AND is kinda fun, if you can remind yourself it's a bunch of guys just blowing off some after work steam. Harmless, for the most part.

Well I did make "old man" rude noise at ITTOG's idea of wasting money on my truck, "Thuuuuphfff-----!" . And I think he got the intended laugh about that. So I will accept any blame for running this thought train off the tracks!

And yes back to the element born in dying stars, deliverd to OUR PLANET by meteors, IRIDIUM!.Hard and corrosion resistant metal. Platinum proved better than copper in plugs, iridium is showing to be better than platinum, ruthenium near chemically inert may improve on iridium. What will I waste my time and money on when I am no longer changing spark plugs? KM

PS: ITTOG posted while I was hunting and pecking, ya beat me again! km

 

[EcoXLT]

But the real reason for my comment about not following with early maintenance is because when I was building cars and engines the less you mess with everything the longer it will last. I know there are world class mechanics that still follow that line of thinking. So far I have never experienced anything to make me change my mind.

I think the less you mess statement may be true if you’re lucky like me that nothing has happened to my motor in 80k miles. I personally have only taken my engine cover off one time. That was to replace plugs at 65k. I did that because the forum scared me into doing it. The plug gap only widened to .035 I don’t mind doing early maintenance.

Off topic. My oil has been changed 20 times now. At the dealership that would cost around $1200. Doing it myself is around $800. (Synblend). 10,000 maintenance $480/$320. Not exact numbers but you get what I’m getting at. In my case I spent $48 a year more to have cleaner oil in my engine. Even at 4000 mile changes I’ve seen a couple times some nasty oil come out.

 

[N4HHE]

Are you saying Ford decided to recommend 10,000 oil changes based on it would provide the longest life possibility of the engine?

I didn't say that. I said that in effect 10,000 is where the probability of additional wear makes the benefit of oil drain a cost effective maintenance.

What is the point of changing oil every 5000 miles using the most expensive oil available to get 500,000 miles when 10,000 miles using Motorcraft Semisynthetic will go 495,000 miles?

That is what they decided, admittedly. But I will never believe a group of Ford engineers sat in a conference room and concluded the recommended oil change interval based on a criteria anywhere close to longest life.

Ford has a couple of incentives that I can think of. Selling vehicles and reducing warranty costs. Both of those are met at a fraction of 450,000 miles.

Profit motive. If Ford lies to you, then buy something other than a Ford.

Before deciding to buy new I drove 4 different off-lease 150,000 mile 2014 3.5EB F-150s. All had CarFax documenting 10,000 mile service by a regional tire shop, 100,000 mile transmission. None had cam phaser repairs. None seemed to be burning oil. All ran strong. All have had a hard life. None were 4x4. Some were missing tailgates, all were missing the backup camera. I decided that for less than 3x the price of a used truck to buy new, with 4x4.

450,000 mile vehicles are outliers.
We all want our vehicles to last that long. But no oil change interval will get you that, statistically speaking.

But wait, you are inferring the truck will not see 450,000 miles, ever? So if the doors and fenders are going to fall off first then who cares about the engine?

OTR fleet managers perform routine UOA to determine when to change oil. They do not change oil until they know increased wear is coming. I believe Ford engineers know their engines well enough to specify a safe drain interval.

As for spark plugs, one can monitor MPG and cylinder missing P-codes to judge when it is past time to change.

 

[butthead]

And I thought I was argumentative with rude old man noises. At least I mostly kept to spark plugs and iridium. KM

 

[GearHead_1]

@N4HHE, are you sure that was milk in your cornflakes this morning?

 

[snakebitten]

Hey, I'm the one that sat down next to N4HHE and challenged his dissertation. I'd have been a little disappointed if he didn't counterpoint.

We disagree on what are the REAL criteria that drives the official manufacturer recommendations. I'm cool with that. No harm no foul.

By the way, I never claimed Ford lied to me about anything. They didn't even suggest in any way how long that I can expect the engine to last with 10,000 mile intervals. (well I guess they are saying they guarantee it will last 60,000)
But I'm convinced that there are men/women that participate in those publishing decisions that won't and don't follow those minimum guidelines. Because that's what they are. Minimum guidelines.

Or put another way, if you go longer than 10,000, say 11,000, is it not grounds for a declined warranty claim?

 

[Upshifter]

Even if you employed the scientific method to the T to prove that 10k OCI were fine for the 485k mile truck, and even also proved without any doubt that a 5k OCI would have not modified the outcome, then the only thing that would confirm concretely is the outcome for that particular truck and how that particular truck experienced its miles.

Not to even mention the stark diferrences between Gen 1 3.5 vs. Gen 2 3.5 vs Gen 1 2.7 vs Gen 2 2.7.
These are not evolutions of the same engine, they are about as different as turbo gas engines under the same emblem can be.

Problem is, this is unknowable.
So debate ensues.

Maybe its as simple as believing that if something is good (e.g. changing oil) then more of something is better.

For me personally I hear the engine tell me when it needs oil courtesy of noisy valves and chains.
Then I see the immediate benefit of it quieting down with fresh oil.
Usually happens around 5k miles, and I don't feel comfortable seeing what it would be like at 10k.
I'm at 6k now and getting itchy.... too busy lately!

Since we cant know exactly what we'll be dealt next, can we stack the deck ever so slightly in our favor?
Maybe.

If I had a crystal ball and it said that OCIs under 10k miles were a complete waste, I wouldn't argue or be surprised. But until then, the clatter will decide.

 

[snakebitten]

I'm at ~3000 miles now.
I am looking so forward to dumping that nasty black stuff and pouring in fresh golden honey.

Nothing scientific about it, but one looks like it would taste good on waffles! The other looks like poison. 🤣