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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I gapped some new OEM plugs to .028, installed them in my truck, and then reloaded my custom 87 octane tune to do some datalogging runs. For these runs, I had 87 octane fuel in there from a local Shell station. Most runs looked okay to me with regards to knock, but this one 0-70 mph datalog has me concerned:



I rolled into the throttle fairly easily before really getting into it (to eliminate wheel spin), and the knock maxed out to right at 5 degrees before gradually stepping down. None of the other hard runs during my datalogging exhibited this. I emailed all of my datalogs to my tuner and his response is that it still looks okay. What are your thoughts? Do you think I damaged anything with that run? My truck seems to run perfectly fine right now, but I certainly don't want to damage a $40k vehicle. Thanks for the help!
 

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Don't run that ... That's wot with all that knock imo not good

uploadfromtaptalk1398128706458.jpg

This is a ladder^^^^

Sent From Louisiana East Texas
 

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That's a little high IMO, I would ask for a revision on that, I've got logs that show 8 plus on wot runs and didn't damage it yet anyways. Just email the tuner and ask for a revision.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well that sucks. I wonder why knock wasn't nearly as high on any of my other runs? And why in the hell would my tuner have said that its just fine?! I'll ask him for a revision... Anyway, I certainly appreciate the help, guys!
 

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Well that sucks. I wonder why knock wasn't nearly as high on any of my other runs? And why in the hell would my tuner have said that its just fine?! I'll ask him for a revision... Anyway, I certainly appreciate the help, guys!
If your tuner says that level of knock is acceptable, then you need to get a new tuner...I would never say that to a customer...I work with them until they are happy with the power level and it is safe to run all the time...end of discussion...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
That is too much Knock...call me tomorrow and I will be glad to explain what is acceptable and what you should be worried about... ;)
Thank you; I really appreciate the offer! I certainly wouldn't mind going with a tuner from my home state!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So.....who's this "tuner"?

Don't have to answer but I had to ask
I'd rather not say. They are quite reputable though, and one reason I chose them is because of the safety of their tunes... They seem to have many other happy customers and I don't want to cause them any grief over this, although I did want a a few other opinions.
 

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I'd rather not say. They are quite reputable though, and one reason I chose them is because of the safety of their tunes... They seem to have many other happy customers and I don't want to cause them any grief over this, although I did want a a few other opinions.
Very good. Sounds like it's a good thing you posted. Be careful!! Lol
 

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Looks a lot like an 87oct MPT log I looked at. The one I looked at spiked to 5 at WOT but immediately hit -8 very quickly for the rest of the pull.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks, guys. Sitting out in my truck and loading the stock tune as I type this.
 

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Thanks, guys. Sitting out in my truck and loading the stock tune as I type this.
The bottom line is that you need to have a tune on your truck that you feel good about and that a tuner will work with you on until you are happy... It doesn't have to be me, I'm not trying to sell you something, but they need to honor what you purchased from them... ;)
 

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Well that sucks. I wonder why knock wasn't nearly as high on any of my other runs? And why in the hell would my tuner have said that its just fine?! I'll ask him for a revision... Anyway, I certainly appreciate the help, guys!
I might get jumped on for this but whatever...You are gonna have the potential for knock problems and pulling timing if you are running a performance tune on garbage 87 pump fuel. 87 is barely okay (not okay imo) for a non-NA engine at all, much less when you advance timing in the slightest and start playing with spark. Not pointing fingers but any reputable tuner should also explicitly tell you it is not a good idea to mix performance tuning and 87 octane pump crap. I have pretty much figured out who your tuner was and I know that they advise against 87 tunes in general (although they will do it if you want it) on their website and feel this same way for the same reasons. In fact it surprises me that they would respond to you regarding your knock concern in that way rather than pull the plug on tuning you any further for 87 as you run the risk of real damage in not a lot of time. I dont want to write a novel but try to understand that what may be minor excessive knock is actually a big deal when you consider the other conditions your engine maybe encountering. Especially in a motor that is well-known for having a moisture issue which imbalances compression and can lead to detonation, especially as it kills the already low octane level of your fuel and...well I'm just saying, add to that some advanced timing, a bad batch of crap gas, an ecu that kicks up the delivery due to some leaning out, a little knock and a ping and you will wish you'd spent a little more on decent pump gas when you watch 6 quarts of oil spill all over the road from the hole in your block. This is worst case scenario, but very plausible. Done with my speech, either way good luck! Hope you get it all worked out man
 

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I subscribe to the same philosophy on fuel. I don't understand why so many guys seem to run 93oct tunes on the street unless they have real reasons (not assumptions) to believe that the fuel they get every time is in fact fresh, 93oct, water-free, and checked regularly for consistency.

I'm curious to know what some of the well-known "custom" tuners tell their customers about this. Maybe carry a specific gravity test kit in your truck with you? :0)


Transmitted by thumbs via iPhone. Chance of errors, 90%.
 

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I might get jumped on for this but whatever...You are gonna have the potential for knock problems and pulling timing if you are running a performance tune on garbage 87 pump fuel. 87 is barely okay (not okay imo) for a non-NA engine at all, much less when you advance timing in the slightest and start playing with spark. Not pointing fingers but any reputable tuner should also explicitly tell you it is not a good idea to mix performance tuning and 87 octane pump crap. I have pretty much figured out who your tuner was and I know that they advise against 87 tunes in general (although they will do it if you want it) on their website and feel this same way for the same reasons. In fact it surprises me that they would respond to you regarding your knock concern in that way rather than pull the plug on tuning you any further for 87 as you run the risk of real damage in not a lot of time. I dont want to write a novel but try to understand that what may be minor excessive knock is actually a big deal when you consider the other conditions your engine maybe encountering. Especially in a motor that is well-known for having a moisture issue which imbalances compression and can lead to detonation, especially as it kills the already low octane level of your fuel and...well I'm just saying, add to that some advanced timing, a bad batch of crap gas, an ecu that kicks up the delivery due to some leaning out, a little knock and a ping and you will wish you'd spent a little more on decent pump gas when you watch 6 quarts of oil spill all over the road from the hole in your block. This is worst case scenario, but very plausible. Done with my speech, either way good luck! Hope you get it all worked out man
I agree...I tell all of my customers that they will get better mileage and performance by running the highest octane they have available...

If anyone doubts this, you can test it easy on a bone stock truck...switch from 87 to 93 octane and your ecoboost will perform better and get better gas mileage...we see it all the time when customers switch octanes in preparation for one of our custom tunes... ;)
 

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I subscribe to the same philosophy on fuel. I don't understand why so many guys seem to run 93oct tunes on the street unless they have real reasons (not assumptions) to believe that the fuel they get every time is in fact fresh, 93oct, water-free, and checked regularly for consistency.

I'm curious to know what some of the well-known "custom" tuners tell their customers about this. Maybe carry a specific gravity test kit in your truck with you? :0)


Transmitted by thumbs via iPhone. Chance of errors, 90%.

There is no way to predict the quality of fuel and asking customers to smell like gas because they are constantly having to check their fuel is not really an option...

2 things from a tuning standpoint that matter in regards to a possible bad tank of gas...adaptive learning and setting up your knock sensors so that they pull timing aggressively if they detect knock...
 

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If your tuner says that level of knock is acceptable, then you need to get a new tuner...I would never say that to a customer...I work with them until they are happy with the power level and it is safe to run all the time...end of discussion...
You don't want ANY knock at top end or things go boom, there will be some knock at initial tip in but it should start going down and be to 0 knock count as you're approaching 6k rpms... Call Erick at LET a you wont be disappointed, customer service is great, and the logs for his tunes look good too.

Steven
 

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There is no way to predict the quality of fuel and asking customers to smell like gas because they are constantly having to check their fuel is not really an option...

2 things from a tuning standpoint that matter in regards to a possible bad tank of gas...adaptive learning and setting up your knock sensors so that they pull timing aggressively if they detect knock...
I agree Erick, and that was my sarcastic point.....

But if a guy is running a 93oct tune all day every day, you're saying that the factory adaptive learning and the tuner's ability to aggressively set up the knock sensors is safe even if the fuel he's getting isn't usually 93? If that's the case, I still don't understand why bother with a 93 tune for daily driving?

I'm not saying that 92 or 93 tunes shouldn't exist at all.....
 

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I agree Erick, and that was my sarcastic point.....

But if a guy is running a 93oct tune all day every day, you're saying that the factory adaptive learning and the tuner's ability to aggressively set up the knock sensors is safe even if the fuel he's getting isn't usually 93? If that's the case, I still don't understand why bother with a 93 tune for daily driving?

I'm not saying that 92 or 93 tunes shouldn't exist at all.....

Haha! That was my sarcastic point about smelling like fuel... ;)

But in all seriousness...I am not talking about the factory adaptive learning, I am talking about the way that a tuner should setup the adaptive learning for their custom tune, not just banking that the factory setup is adequate. My tunes learn quickly because I don't like to see knock...
 
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