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No no read carefully lol. I LOVE my 5* 93 performance tune its fantastic.

I just dont like the AO and was advised their AO doesnt add boost or timing over stock which means its just stock with throttle programming and trans shift points.

Their 93 perf and 91 perf/tow I quite like.
Just not their adaptive octane.

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I see, well I kinda meant others that I’ve talked to kinda dislike 5*
 

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Discussion Starter #22
The thing being is I don’t understand why they messed with it in the first place. Any good tuner can make more power without altering the emissions. Modifying emissions is like taking a short-cut. In no way am I dissing BCB, they just should’ve taken a smarter approach.

Unleashed, GH, BK, and 5* are all strongly against modifying the emissions. GH is probably the most strict. Heck it’s all over their website.

There’s more to emissions than just modifying O2 sensors. In the calibration, there are many tables that all have a job on reducing emissions during power production, cruising, cold start, idling, etc. Anything from fueling, spark, airflow, exhaust, VVT, etc. The list goes on.

You are making some broad assumptions there. How do you know any emissions rules have been broken? The BCB shop is in the part of WI that has vehicle emission testing. Mine has passed with the 93 octane performance tune. How sure are you that other tuners are not affected?
I for sure hope this isn't industry wide, but it is a bit early to jump to assumptions/conclusions. KM
 
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Well, I suppose I should have specified what I want better.
1. I don’t want to blow up my engine at all
2. I want it to be pretty darn fast, I’m keeping my stock tire size, not going big wheels or tires ever.
3. I don’t have access to 93 where I live so it would be a custom 91 tune
Let me rephrase what I said...all of those tuners I recommended are SAFE for your engine. They each have many years of experience on this platform and know the limits of your engine. You should not be afraid to use them.
 

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You are making some broad assumptions there. How do you know any emissions rules have been broken? The BCB shop is in the part of WI that has vehicle emission testing. Mine has passed with the 93 octane performance tune. How sure are you that other tuners are not affected?
I for sure hope this isn't industry wide, but it is a bit early to jump to assumptions/conclusions. KM
If emission rules weren’t broken, they wouldn’t be having issues with the EPA. Resulting in revoking all sales and tuning.

Emissions rules haven’t changed since 2018. That’s when the big hammer went down on SCT/Bullydog etc. The only reason the EPA is after them is because they did something wrong.

Just because your tune passed doesn’t mean others will. My truck did not pass the readiness tests on either adaptive tune. That’s because they were turned off. My tunes are from 2017.

All I’m saying is someone called them out and now they may be paying the price. But we will never know. It’s none of our business.

Casey is a fantastic tuner. No doubt about it. The man knows his ecoboosts. Night and day he is working. It’s a shame this had to happen. They were just starting to bloom as well.
 

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I have both 5* and GH tunes. (everyone that has been here long knows this)

There might be a little bit of disappointment with 5* AO tunes, but it's not widespread in my opinion. And their performance tunes are NOTORIOUS for happy customers, especially those that go through the trouble for revision-tweaking.
Their tow tune is also well thought of by many folks.

While Matt at GearHead is not shy about keeping his AO tunes within his own personally established safety margin, it's not like he leaves much on the table. On 93 octane, his AO tune is still impressively strong. Some mistake his less frantic tip-in as less power, but it's yet another attribute of his tuning personality. (again, my opinion)

I have no idea what is really going on with Brew City, but I too think that we are way short on information at this point to know for sure. I hope that I'm wrong, but why would anyone be shocked if it's just a precursor of more of exactly what has happened in the past?



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Well, I suppose I should have specified what I want better.
1. I don’t want to blow up my engine at all
2. I want it to be pretty darn fast, I’m keeping my stock tire size, not going big wheels or tires ever.
3. I don’t have access to 93 where I live so it would be a custom 91 tune
my 5star 91 performance tune after a couple revisions I was running a 4.01 seconds 0 to 60 in my 2019 3.5 crew cab 4x4 6.5 bed with around 400 lbs in the bed toolbox.

I highly recommend them, I’ve ran multiple companies throughout the past eight years and three different trucks as well. but as I always say it’s good to try at least a couple different companies and see what works best for you and your truck.


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I have both 5* and GH tunes. (everyone that has been here long knows this)

There might be a little bit of disappointment with 5* AO tunes, but it's not widespread in my opinion. And their performance tunes are NOTORIOUS for happy customers, especially those that go through the trouble for revision-tweaking.
Their tow tune is also well thought of by many folks.

While Matt at GearHead is not shy about keeping his AO tunes within his own personally established safety margin, it's not like he leaves much on the table. On 93 octane, his AO tune is still impressively strong. Some mistake his less frantic tip-in as less power, but it's yet another attribute of his tuning personality. (again, my opinion)

I have no idea what is really going on with Brew City, but I too think that we are way short on information at this point to know for sure. I hope that I'm wrong, but why would anyone be shocked if it's just a precursor of more of exactly what has happened in the past?



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It’s like you knew exactly what I was trying say ;)


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Agree. Love my 93 and 91 5* tune.
They are good folks and know what they are doing. It may be I shouldn't have run the 93 right off. Managed expectations lol.
Everything feels down on power compared to the 93 only tune because well of course it is. Lol

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It’s like you knew exactly what I was trying say ;)


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That actually should have you worried.
Or is it the other way around? :)

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America is in a sad state if we arent allowed to tune our vehicles. And no offense to anyone, but no one should give a crap if someone has no cats or has a smoke tune on their diesel, it’s no more of an atmosphere pollution than someone’s woodstove.
These regulations suck, and the government sucks, it’s not people that suck.
No one is stopping you from tuning your truck. Like I said in my first post, Whipple has a tune for their 775 hp 5.0 supercharger kit that is 50 state emissions legal and CARB certified. It can be done, and done lawfully. And as long as all of your emissions equipment is in tact, its very likely most of our eco tunes do meet the requirements, although maybe not officially.

The company I bought my Jeep tune from is now making EPA compliant tunes for the Ecodiesels and 2.8 Duramax

But please do explain to me why I shouldn't care about running no cats or a smoke tune when I have to sit behind them at a light? Especially if said smoke tune serves no other purpose other than being obnoxious(which is about all they are for, because its certainly not power or efficiency). I don't sit at the top of a wood stove chimney huffing the exhaust.

Just understand that that obnoxious stuff was what drew the attention of the EPA. If people hadn't taken to the extreme then there likely would not have been a crack down in the first place and we would not be having this conversation.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Last year an LED bulb maker stopped selling LED headlight bulbs and issued a recall. It was assumed they were bad in some way.
Now more companies that catered to upgraded lighting no longer sell for street use. It's off-road use only. No actual legal actions were taken. But a general message was sent. Diode Dynamics happened to be the first to pull products. Headlight Revolution followed several months latter as well as others now selling off-road use only.

Not sure if the case is the same here. But rumors and assumptions don't help and may hurt good companies business. An isolated case in BCB? I sure do not know but am watching more closely at other suppliers. ZFG also seems to have no tuners or tunes available. KM
 

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Last year an LED bulb maker stopped selling LED headlight bulbs and issued a recall. It was assumed they were bad in some way.
Now more companies that catered to upgraded lighting no longer sell for street use. It's off-road use only. No actual legal actions were taken. But a general message was sent. Diode Dynamics happened to be the first to pull products. Headlight Revolution followed several months latter as well as others now selling off-road use only.

Not sure if the case is the same here. But rumors and assumptions don't help and may hurt good companies business. An isolated case in BCB? I sure do not know but am watching more closely at other suppliers. ZFG also seems to have no tuners or tunes available. KM
With a heavy heart BCB is taking tuning hiatus for an undetermined amount of time. This means we are suspending all tuning sales, programmer (device) sales, and datalog revisions during this time. The reason for this is due to the quickly evolving landscape of environmental regulations. We've learned that the regulatory risks involved with vehicle tuning simply are just not worth it.

This was an extremely difficult decision to make, however we do believe this move is the right thing to do at this time. Please be understanding and considerate of our decision and feel free to message or reach out to us with any of your own concerns. We will still be a fantastic source for performance parts, hardware, vehicle builds, and consultation. We look forward to helping you out with those projects!
Whether they got caught red handed or got a letter from the EPA, it seems like something scared the crap out of them. It seems to me that they got a cease and desist that probably had a nice big fat dollar amount on it.
 
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Discussion Starter #33
"In addition, the EPA secured settlements against a number of companies that sold parts for gasoline-engine vehicles over the last year, among them Nevada-based Flowmaster, which paid a $270,000 penalty in March; California-based OBX Racing Sports, which paid a $25,000 penalty in April; California-based Weistec Engineering, which paid an $8,500 penalty in March; and California-based APEX Integration, which paid a $5,000 penalty in August. All were for selling either tunes or catalytic converter-delete exhaust components."
from Hemmings

Might be enough to gat a small buisness to reconsider. In the instance of the LED's the DOT apparently threatened, and changed several companies sales policies. It could be their lawyer had a long sit down talk with BCB. I will wait for the other shoe to drop, hoping it doesn't. KM
 

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Late 70's I owned a small architectural woodwork company. Employed around 20 fellas on average.

Went to lunch one day and when I returned OSHA was walking around my shop. Nice enough guy, with a clipboard, and didn't leave the impression that I was in any trouble.

A few days later I received an official document with 10 fines. Each for $1500
That's 1978 dollars. $15,000

For ridiculous stuff like the dust masks from Grainger had 1 rubber band instead of 2. (I didn't even know it was a thing)

Pure bully tactics. Nothing was related to real safety or threat of injury. (other than the fact I had lots of machinery that could cut your hand off if you didn't know what you are doing)

Wrote my congressman and sent a copy. In his own words it was a ridiculous overreach of....
He must of chewed someone out because OSHA sent another letter offering a settlement for $3500.

They ended up getting less than $1000

My point is....... Well, I think you probably know what my point is.

I don't know the guys at Brew. But if I had to give them or the EPA the benefit of the doubt....

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No one is stopping you from tuning your truck. Like I said in my first post, Whipple has a tune for their 775 hp 5.0 supercharger kit that is 50 state emissions legal and CARB certified. It can be done, and done lawfully. And as long as all of your emissions equipment is in tact, its very likely most of our eco tunes do meet the requirements, although maybe not officially.

The company I bought my Jeep tune from is now making EPA compliant tunes for the Ecodiesels and 2.8 Duramax

But please do explain to me why I shouldn't care about running no cats or a smoke tune when I have to sit behind them at a light? Especially if said smoke tune serves no other purpose other than being obnoxious(which is about all they are for, because its certainly not power or efficiency). I don't sit at the top of a wood stove chimney huffing the exhaust.

Just understand that that obnoxious stuff was what drew the attention of the EPA. If people hadn't taken to the extreme then there likely would not have been a crack down in the first place and we would not be having this conversation.
But how do you classify obnoxious or non obnoxious? Because what’s obnoxious to some isn’t to others. I will agree, no one NEEDS to roll coal, however it can be quite fun!
I think the EPA like other organizations has got nothing better to do than make ridiculous rules and regulations that shouldn’t be.
Whether you and I agree or not, I fully respect your viewpoint.
 
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Late 70's I owned a small architectural woodwork company. Employed around 20 fellas on average.

Went to lunch one day and when I returned OSHA was walking around my shop. Nice enough guy, with a clipboard, and didn't leave the impression that I was in any trouble.

A few days later I received an official document with 10 fines. Each for $1500
That's 1978 dollars. $15,000

For ridiculous stuff like the dust masks from Grainger had 1 rubber band instead of 2. (I didn't even know it was a thing)

Pure bully tactics. Nothing was related to real safety or threat of injury. (other than the fact I had lots of machinery that could cut your hand off if you didn't know what you are doing)

Wrote my congressman and sent a copy. In his own words it was a ridiculous overreach of....
He must of chewed someone out because OSHA sent another letter offering a settlement for $3500.

They ended up getting less than $1000

My point is....... Well, I think you probably know what my point is.

I don't know the guys at Brew. But if I had to give them or the EPA the benefit of the doubt....

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That’s the point right there. The EPA is full of garbage and have nothing better to do than to make all kinds of silly rules.
 
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Whats to prevent these tuners from registering their companies in the british virgin islands or something and then running all of their internet traffic through a VPN?
 

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Whats to prevent these tuners from registering their companies in the british virgin islands or something and then running all of their internet traffic through a VPN?
You'd make a good cyber-criminal

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But how do you classify obnoxious or non obnoxious? Because what’s obnoxious to some isn’t to others. I will agree, no one NEEDS to roll coal, however it can be quite fun!
I think the EPA like other organizations has got nothing better to do than make ridiculous rules and regulations that shouldn’t be.
Whether you and I agree or not, I fully respect your viewpoint.
I can think of a lot of things that are fun that I am not supposed to do. I could take my lifted 4Runner and plow a random path through the middle of the National Forest next to my house and probably make some sweet rock crawling trails. The chances of me getting caught are very low, I would likely never face any consequences since there are like 3 Rangers patrolling 1400 square miles. But I don't because have respect for the National Forest Service and for other people's enjoyment of the outdoors and don't wanna ruin it for everyone else.

Just because you wanna do it for your own selfish enjoyment doesn't mean you should.
 

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You'd make a good cyber-criminal

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Well i mean seriously. Its like $10 a month and a little leg work.
 
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