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Discussion starter · #401 ·
Elevation is absolutely killing the top end. My biggest fear is someone without the knowledge Matt has doing the same thing, forgetting he has an elevation tune on it, coming back down to earth (sea level) and boosting his rods to the moon. The changes I've had to try would have dangerous results at sea level.

We are progressing, its just harder than I expected.
I am working on getting a set of stage 5 turbos with a larger turbine that will greatly increase the exhaust flow. That really should help us not have to run so much wastegate. That’s my hope anyway.
 
Elevation is absolutely killing the top end. My biggest fear is someone without the knowledge Matt has doing the same thing, forgetting he has an elevation tune on it, coming back down to earth (sea level) and boosting his rods to the moon. The changes I've had to try would have dangerous results at sea level.

We are progressing, its just harder than I expected.
Respect Sir! Thank you for being an engaged participant, tuning and on the forum!1!
 
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Exactly. That would scare me too. If I have to go somewhere down to sea level I will put the stock tune on it.
You will need to go down to a good sea level area location for a weekend and get a good low elevation tune too, don't want to be caught with your pants down at a red light with just a stock tune and those monster lungs.... Lol
 
Discussion starter · #404 ·
You will need to go down to a good sea level area location for a weekend and get a good low elevation tune too, don't want to be caught with your pants down at a red light with just a stock tune and those monster lungs.... Lol
Haha true.
 
Matt, what in your opinion the biggest restriction on the power level you are seeking, altitude, or the ECU? KM
 
owns 2017 Ford F150 XL
Matt, what in your opinion the biggest restriction on the power level you are seeking, altitude, or the ECU? KM
Doesn’t history say it’s the connecting rods?
 
owns 2017 Ford F150 XL
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Discussion starter · #408 ·
Matt, what in your opinion the biggest restriction on the power level you are seeking, altitude, or the ECU? KM
You know I’m not really sure. I’ve been thinking this through in my head a bunch.

We are commanding boost and we are not getting boost. Brett is trying his hardest to get boost up in higher rpms but somehow we just can’t. I thought Torrie could do it, but we’re 23 revisions in with really no increase on the top end for boost.

We are running wastegate almost closed and yet we aren’t getting much boost up top, so either it’s the turbos or some limit in the tune.

Obviously the main issue is elevation, but regardless of that we should be able to have a turbo setup that can make boost. I proved that on my 2.7. We were able to make 20psi at 6500 rpm’s. Even with the smaller turbos the stage 2 Brett accidentally made 26 psi one time and it held that all the way to redline, so it makes me think our boost issue is not turbo related.

I personally think there’s a limit somewhere that no one knows about or hasn’t found yet.

I sent off my stock turbos to Turbobay Performance today for an even better turbo upgrade.

he’s going to use his fancy 10 blade (5+5 blade) turbine that will be 50/45mm (CRP stage 4 is 45/40mm) and a compressor that’s 46.5mm inducer, and 56mm exducer with a 60.1mm extended tip and wide paddle for increased flow (CRP doesn’t extend theirs to 60mm). So basically keeping a very similar compressor wheel but it’s enhanced and will flow better than CRPs. I’m really excited. He might try and port some of the openings according to his discretion. I told him to do whatever he thinks will flow good.

I’m not doing this to get more horsepower, I’m doing it because I like turbos and upgrading stuff and I really want that larger turbine to help decrease the back pressure on the engine to let it breathe more. On my 2.7 I was so limited by the stock turbos and even the stage 2 turbos. When I got the stage 4 which really opened the turbine side up and allowed exhaust to flow better we really unlocked the capability of the 2.7. I went from stock turbos with a tune doing 33 lb/min to the stage 2 with wayyyy too much boost (completely closed wastegate) making 42 lb/min to the stage 4 making 48 lb/min with minimal boost and 30% gate duty. All on 91 octane fuel at 7000 feet.

Opening the hot side to a 50mm high flow 5+5 blade turbine I am hoping will greatly increase the capability of my 3.5L at this elevation. Also a set of high flow downpipes from CvF coming soon will be a big upgrade too.

people always say that downpipes on the 3.5L don’t gain much hp. I agree, but only on the Gen 2. The Gen 3 is different. My 2022 has four catalytic converters. My exhaust with a resonator delete is not near as loud as it was on my 2.7L even though my 2.7 had two mufflers! I think those four cats are quite restrictive and freeing up that restriction on the Gen 3 will increase hp by quite a bit. I bet it’d pick up 40-50 hp if the truck is running bigger turbos.

anyways, just my rant for tonight.
 
You know I’m not really sure. I’ve been thinking this through in my head a bunch.

We are commanding boost and we are not getting boost. Brett is trying his hardest to get boost up in higher rpms but somehow we just can’t. I thought Torrie could do it, but we’re 23 revisions in with really no increase on the top end for boost.

We are running wastegate almost closed and yet we aren’t getting much boost up top, so either it’s the turbos or some limit in the tune.

Obviously the main issue is elevation, but regardless of that we should be able to have a turbo setup that can make boost. I proved that on my 2.7. We were able to make 20psi at 6500 rpm’s. Even with the smaller turbos the stage 2 Brett accidentally made 26 psi one time and it held that all the way to redline, so it makes me think our boost issue is not turbo related.

I personally think there’s a limit somewhere that no one knows about or hasn’t found yet.

I sent off my stock turbos to Turbobay Performance today for an even better turbo upgrade.

he’s going to use his fancy 10 blade (5+5 blade) turbine that will be 50/45mm (CRP stage 4 is 45/40mm) and a compressor that’s 46.5mm inducer, and 56mm exducer with a 60.1mm extended tip and wide paddle for increased flow (CRP doesn’t extend theirs to 60mm). So basically keeping a very similar compressor wheel but it’s enhanced and will flow better than CRPs. I’m really excited. He might try and port some of the openings according to his discretion. I told him to do whatever he thinks will flow good.

I’m not doing this to get more horsepower, I’m doing it because I like turbos and upgrading stuff and I really want that larger turbine to help decrease the back pressure on the engine to let it breathe more. On my 2.7 I was so limited by the stock turbos and even the stage 2 turbos. When I got the stage 4 which really opened the turbine side up and allowed exhaust to flow better we really unlocked the capability of the 2.7. I went from stock turbos with a tune doing 33 lb/min to the stage 2 with wayyyy too much boost (completely closed wastegate) making 42 lb/min to the stage 4 making 48 lb/min with minimal boost and 30% gate duty. All on 91 octane fuel at 7000 feet.

Opening the hot side to a 50mm high flow 5+5 blade turbine I am hoping will greatly increase the capability of my 3.5L at this elevation. Also a set of high flow downpipes from CvF coming soon will be a big upgrade too.

people always say that downpipes on the 3.5L don’t gain much hp. I agree, but only on the Gen 2. The Gen 3 is different. My 2022 has four catalytic converters. My exhaust with a resonator delete is not near as loud as it was on my 2.7L even though my 2.7 had two mufflers! I think those four cats are quite restrictive and freeing up that restriction on the Gen 3 will increase hp by quite a bit. I bet it’d pick up 40-50 hp if the truck is running bigger turbos.

anyways, just my rant for tonight.
I think that is your longest post in a good while, and I really appreciate you took the time to make it.

That is super interesting. And it certainly sounds software-limited and not turbo/mechanical. I would not be surprised at all if your theory about an as-yet unidentified safety on the Gen14s is at play.

And I know it’s apples to oranges, but I’m waiting until this is solved for you before I venture back into tuning these Garrett’s (and I know it will be solved with you and Brett on it).

Edit in case someone else sees this: I’m only waiting because I’m at similar elevation. I know tons of folks have tuned their Powermax set successfully, including many by BoostKing.

It’s just because of elevation.
And maybe because I’m a bit gunshy.
 
Discussion starter · #410 ·
I think that is your longest post in a good while, and I really appreciate you took the time to make it.

That is super interesting. And it certainly sounds software-limited and not turbo/mechanical. I would not be surprised at all if your theory about an as-yet unidentified safety on the Gen14s is at play.

And I know it’s apples to oranges, but I’m waiting until this is solved for you before I venture back into tuning these Garrett’s (and I know it will be solved with you and Brett on it).

Edit in case someone else sees this: I’m only waiting because I’m at similar elevation. I know tons of folks have tuned their Powermax set successfully, including many by BoostKing.

It’s just because of elevation.
And maybe because I’m a bit gunshy.
You’re welcome. I probably made everyone gunshy with my 2.7 explosion
 
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If you're running the wastegates almost closed and they're actually in the commanded position for the whole pull I'd think you'd be making boost. It doesn't really have a choice does it? You'd either have a leak (bov if it's vta), or your exhaust is choking the flow enough to keep them from spinning. Or the turbine or impeller is either too much or to little and not spinning up properly. Unless it's holding the throttle closed and opening the wastegate, which you'd be able to see. May be totally off with those shots in the dark...
 
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Discussion starter · #413 ·
If you're running the wastegates almost closed and they're actually in the commanded position for the whole pull I'd think you'd be making boost. It doesn't really have a choice does it? You'd either have a leak (bov if it's vta), or your exhaust is choking the flow enough to keep them from spinning. Or the turbine or impeller is either too much or to little and not spinning up properly. Unless it's holding the throttle closed and opening the wastegate, which you'd be able to see. May be totally off with those shots in the dark...
I wouldn’t be surprised if the exhaust was choking it to some degree. There won’t be a way to tell until CVF sends me downpipes. For now I’ll just have to wait. I don’t think the compressor side or exhaust side on these turbos are too big, even the stock turbos were doing the same thing these turbos are doing.
 
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How far is CVF from sending you new downpipes?

It would be nice to know how fast your actually spinning the turbines. Is there a provision on the turbo to install a turbine speed gauge.
 
owns 2017 Ford F-150 Lariat
Discussion starter · #415 ·
How far is CVF from sending you new downpipes?

It would be nice to know how fast your actually spinning the turbines. Is there a provision on the turbo to install a turbine speed gauge.
I’m not sure. They’re getting redesigned right now due to some figment issues.

It would be nice. No there’s not. I wonder if there’s a shaft speed PID though…
 
I’m not sure. They’re getting redesigned right now due to some figment issues.

It would be nice. No there’s not. I wonder if there’s a shaft speed PID though…
I believe there is, but it's an inferred reading. It'd be nice to know if they're being choked, or if one of the wheels is too big/small. Just take the downpipe off and shoot some flames for a pass 🤣. Maybe @full-race geoff would have some insight on what could be going on?
 
Discussion starter · #418 ·
I believe there is, but it's an inferred reading. It'd be nice to know if they're being choked, or if one of the wheels is too big/small. Just take the downpipe off and shoot some flames for a pass 🤣. Maybe @full-race geoff would have some insight on what could be going on?
Glad you brought him to the chat. Yeah idk, it’s weird. I don’t think I have a boost leak but I can check. Usually every tuner that’s told me “it looks like you have a boost leak” learns that it’s just the elevation that is causing that. Maybe there’s a restriction somewhere that we don’t know about? There shouldn’t be though… but I would not be surprised if making the exhaust side larger will increase our capability. I guess we’ll see! I know the stock frame turbos aren’t great and the hot side is kinda small, but with a larger turbine we should be able to flow a lot more.
 
Discussion starter · #419 ·
Alright. Big update for y’all. Turbos from Turbobay will be done in about a month I hope.

A few days ago Torrie told me there must be some limit that no one knows about for why he can’t get boost any higher on the top end. Brett is also at a stand still. It’s not their fault, there simply is a limit somewhere.

With that being said… I have an Unlocked ECU from ZFG Racing coming tomorrow and the flyaway kit so we can program it remotely (don’t have to take it to the dealership). Adam will be doing a 91 octane tune with my hp Tuners RTD+. Brett was still wanting to mess with my truck too, and he tunes on HP Tuners as well so he can keep messing around but this time on the unlocked ECU with HP Tuners.

Still haven’t heard from CVF… I’m almost more excited for downpipes than I am for the new turbos.
 
Alright. Big update for y’all. Turbos from Turbobay will be done in about a month I hope.

A few days ago Torrie told me there must be some limit that no one knows about for why he can’t get boost any higher on the top end. Brett is also at a stand still. It’s not their fault, there simply is a limit somewhere.

With that being said… I have an Unlocked ECU from ZFG Racing coming tomorrow and the flyaway kit so we can program it remotely (don’t have to take it to the dealership). Adam will be doing a 91 octane tune with my hp Tuners RTD+. Brett was still wanting to mess with my truck too, and he tunes on HP Tuners as well so he can keep messing around but this time on the unlocked ECU with HP Tuners.

Still haven’t heard from CVF… I’m almost more excited for downpipes than I am for the new turbos.
Back to living on the edge I like it! lol
Ohhh the addiction is so real, I've definitely been there, with other things.

At least now you know to have extra $$ on hand if warranty is denied again!!

I'm excited to see how this new adventure goes, hoping it's with no bumps in the road! 🤞🏻

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