[whaines944]

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[limited]

You don't want to let them run over for sure. My experience with larger cubic inch motors is not much of any blow by when driver reasonably driver very hard and you will see some.

 

[joemac]

I would think one of the con would be, this becomes a maintenance item, thus one of the reason manufacturers don't go this route.

Without a doubt there are possibilities of warranty issue on any modification other than the OEM parts or system. Individual results will vary.

For enthusiasts it doesn't appear to be much of an ordeal. Moreover it given many enthusiasts a halfhearted excuse to mess with the truck.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

There are some really high dollar boosted engines offered by the elite auto manufacturers. It would be a negligible cost to add a catch can with a solenoid that self emptied back into the crankcase via the valve cover to these ultra high dollar engines. Do the twin turbo BMWs do this? Do the supercharged Mercedes Benzs do this? Does any auto manufacturer do this to any engine they offer at any price? Catch cans are for racecars. Sure they can be employed by 'street' cars and will keep the engine from ingesting small amounts of oil but understand that your engine was designed to operate the way it came to you from the manufacturer. If the amount of oil it ingests caused a problem it wouldn't have went into production until that problem was remedied.

I owned an SVT Lightning before this Ecoboost. When the Lightning owners started putting catch cans on their trucks they unknowingly starved the rotors in the supercharger for oiling. Superchargers started failing and showing excessive amounts of wear on the rotors. Ford's design was for the oil that circulated through the intake via the PCV be used for the supercharger rotor lube. The minute amount of oil that made it past and ingested by the motor was well within the design parameters of the engine and caused no problems. It was a good idea to clean the intake track every so often. I cleaned mine at 100k miles. I noticed no difference in performance before and after the cleaning. My truck gave me admirable performance for 166K miles. For a boosted engine that made 100's of 1/4mile passes and served as a daily driver I dare not complain. I'd still be in that truck had I not purchased a boat to big for it to tow. For every factory system you omit, modify, or replace there will be unseen/unadvertised repercussions. Do your research and find out as much as you can before hand. Some of these repercussions are harmful some are actually beneficial.

 

[limited]

There are some really high dollar boosted engines offered by the elite auto manufacturers. It would be a negligible cost to add a catch can with a solenoid that self emptied back into the crankcase via the valve cover to these ultra high dollar engines. Do the twin turbo BMWs do this? Do the supercharged Mercedes Benzs do this? Does any auto manufacturer do this to any engine they offer at any price? Catch cans are for racecars. Sure they can be employed by 'street' cars and will keep the engine from ingesting small amounts of oil but understand that your engine was designed to operate the way it came to you from the manufacturer. If the amount of oil it ingests caused a problem it wouldn't have went into production until that problem was remedied.

I owned an SVT Lightning before this Ecoboost. When the Lightning owners started putting catch cans on their trucks they unknowingly starved the rotors in the supercharger for oiling. Superchargers started failing and showing excessive amounts of wear on the rotors. Ford's design was for the oil that circulated through the intake via the PCV be used for the supercharger rotor lube. The minute amount of oil that made it past and ingested by the motor was well within the design parameters of the engine and caused no problems. It was a good idea to clean the intake track every so often. I cleaned mine at 100k miles. I noticed no difference in performance before and after the cleaning. My truck gave me admirable performance for 166K miles. For a boosted engine that made 100's of 1/4mile passes and served as a daily driver I dare not complain. I'd still be in that truck had I not purchased a boat to big for it to tow. For every factory system you omit, modify, or replace there will be unseen/unadvertised repercussions. Do your research and find out as much as you can before hand. Some of these repercussions are harmful some are actually beneficial.

You make some interesting points. I think back to the many throttle bodies and intakes I saw on LS motors. Rarely did I see much if any oil deposits inside the intake or on the TB. I do remember one blower LS motor that had some rather large deposits but never saw any on turbo LS motors. I wonder if any technicians on here see any actual deposits in the TB or intake.

 

[fnjeep314]

Catch cans are primarily used on turbo motors, not so much on supercharged motors. But Ford using blow by via the PCV system to lube the rotors is kind of an odd half-assed way of doing things. One has to think, on turbos, do you really need to lube the fins on the compressor wheel? No, intact you dirty the air coming in. The oil needs to be on the bearings in the middle of the turbo. Also you can't forget that this engine is a direct inject motor. You are losing the "washing" that fuel usually does to the intake valves upon injector impulse of fuel. So now oil that is blown into the intake track is becoming caked on the intake manifold, the runners, and on the intake valves. Over time and the dirtier the valves become, the lack of performance will be had. I come from many turbo charged VW's and Audi's both turbo'ed and the VW was direct injected. I had an Audi A6 that was the start of the direct injection concept and every 60K the intake valves had to be cleaned due to the carbon build up, that can get so bad the car won't start or run. The turbo Audi A4 I had, I had modded and tuned to around 450hp at the crank. I had a catch can on that car. In that situation I was running a lot of boost (spike 30psi maintain 26psi to red line on a GT2867RS) in a 1.8L 4 cylinder, but it was enough that I was blowing oil all around the motor with high pressure, so it made sense to capture the oil. Now even on a tuned Ecoboost is only pushing around 17-18psi, that will still put oil in your intercooler, all your intake pipes and coat the intake track. Some want to run a catch can and some don't, I get that. I have chosen to run one in an attempt to reduce carbon build up in the intake track and keep my turbo pipes, turbos, and intercooler cleaner. Take into consideration that oil will reduce your intercoolers efficiency, i.e. higher intake temps, reduced power. This is all food for thought for anyone willing to read this.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

Take into consideration that oil will reduce your intercoolers efficiency, i.e. higher intake temps, reduced power. This is all food for thought for anyone willing to read this.

It was a good idea to clean the intake track every so often. I cleaned mine at 100k miles. I noticed no difference in performance before and after the cleaning.

I was ready to see the gains from cleaning 100k miles of residuals from my intercooler, intake, & intake track. I went to the track after I cleaned the system and ran the same mid 13s that the truck always ran in the given air temps. Everything was cleaner but it didn't amount to any performance gain.

As I said before catch cans are for racecars. You modified your engines and may have benefited from the use of a catch can because of those mods. I have a Buick Grand National and from the factory Buick set up the turbo to function as the engines vacuum pump!!!! There is a hose that connects the passenger side valve cover to the inlet bell of the turbo which allows the turbo to pull a vacuum on the crank case. Do you think oil gets in that car's intercooler? You bet your ass it does. One of the first things that gets modified is that system. The big time racers then add an expensive vacuum pump system to their engines. You see at stock boost levels the turbo can provide this function and there is no performance loss from the small amounts of oil that gets into the intake track. We would clean the intercooler periodically but I've never seen excessive amounts of oil in there. I'd imagine if you found a stock Grand National that had never had its intercooler cleaned that maybe you'd find excessive oil in the intercooler now after 27 years of running. If you modify your engine then you may dictate the needs of items that engine never would have needed if left stock. More boost certainly lends itself as a reason to consider using a catch can. If you are really serious or want to do it 100% right you won't run a catch can, you'll run a vacuum pump. The catch can actually is a band-aid fix for the lack of a vacuum pump to remove excessive crank case pressure. For a stock Ecoboost there is more gain to be had by using a Cool Can than a Catch Can.

 

[2Canches]

What's a cool can?

 

[Crab Balls]

What's a cool can?

It's just some more cleverly disguised spam, that's all. If you look at the OP's posting history and him selling one of these snake oil contraptions in the Buy/Sell/Trade section it becomes apparent.

 

[whaines944]

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[limited]

I gave a call to my son who is a master technician. He got that working for Ford and Chevrolet until the dealership he worked for closed. He now is a master technician for Toyota. He did work for Ford the first year the eco boost came out. After reading all this stuff I just decided to give him a call. I talked with him about this and in a nutshell here is what he told me. He worked with the eco boost motor (which he really thinks a lot of) as well as aftermarket motors with turbos in his "side job" at a performance shop. He told me he opened up many TB's and intakes at Ford for various reasons and never saw any deposits other than a thin film of oil within the TB on trucks that did a lot of towing. He was familiar with the concept and did actually see two vehicles that had what he called "homemade catch cans". He said there was a very small portion of oil deposits but that usually came from aerosolized oil blow by that usually doesn't even reach the TB. His opinion was it was a "driver peace of mind thing" that really was not that necessary unless you planned to do a ton of towing. He did say the LS motor if driven hard will tend to make small deposits in the TB but a rag gets rid of them pretty easily. He also said back when he was with Ford that the dealer had control of most warranty work up to a cost point at which time you had to call in a Ford rep to evaluate. He thinks that has really changed though where Ford is much more involved. He said Toyota has to see every warranty request and frequently they must take pictures and send them to Toyota. He also said with Toyota you better not even use a larger tire than stock or they will turn down the claim. He said they were real "hard asses" about an alteration in the vehicles they sell.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

I gave a call to my son who is a master technician. He got that working for Ford and Chevrolet until the dealership he worked for closed. He now is a master technician for Toyota. He did work for Ford the first year the eco boost came out. After reading all this stuff I just decided to give him a call. I talked with him about this and in a nutshell here is what he told me. He worked with the eco boost motor (which he really thinks a lot of) as well as aftermarket motors with turbos in his "side job" at a performance shop. He told me he opened up many TB's and intakes at Ford for various reasons and never saw any deposits other than a thin film of oil within the TB on trucks that did a lot of towing. He was familiar with the concept and did actually see two vehicles that had what he called "homemade catch cans". He said there was a very small portion of oil deposits but that usually came from aerosolized oil blow by that usually doesn't even reach the TB. His opinion was it was a "driver peace of mind thing" that really was not that necessary unless you planned to do a ton of towing. He did say the LS motor if driven hard will tend to make small deposits in the TB but a rag gets rid of them pretty easily. He also said back when he was with Ford that the dealer had control of most warranty work up to a cost point at which time you had to call in a Ford rep to evaluate. He thinks that has really changed though where Ford is much more involved. He said Toyota has to see every warranty request and frequently they must take pictures and send them to Toyota. He also said with Toyota you better not even use a larger tire than stock or they will turn down the claim. He said they were real "hard asses" about an alteration in the vehicles they sell.

This information coming from someone who is trained and in the profession should carry some weight. I'd bet your son can also verify that engines produce more blow by as the boost is turned up. Once the factory system of controlling crank case pressure is overwhelmed it becomes beneficial to employ additional means of controlling those pressures and the additional oil they can carry through the system.

 

[Crab Balls]

Crab balls, The rest of the story. I bought the can because I thought it was the right thing to do, after more research I decided not to install it. Some owner still think they needed it. I'm only trying to recoup my investment. If you read my post # 41 maybe you wouldn't be so quick to judge!

I generally call it like I see it. You posts had the classic telltale sign of a spammer. If your posts weren't spam please accept my appology.

 

[whaines944]

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[fnjeep314]

This information coming from someone who is trained and in the profession should carry some weight. I'd bet your son can also verify that engines produce more blow by as the boost is turned up. Once the factory system of controlling crank case pressure is overwhelmed it becomes beneficial to employ additional means of controlling those pressures and the additional oil they can carry through the system.

I would like to point out that I was a professional independent mechanic working primarily on older Mercs, BMW's and Porsche's for 2 years before I was an aircraft mechanic. Since I have been turning wrenches on all of the 29 cars I have owned thus far. I am very qualified on this topic as well. Now granted I don't have a working knowledge of the Ecoboost specifically, but I have been working on turbo'ed engines for years now. Also to your point about premium car companies not running catch cans on their car from the factory, that really comes down to federal emission regulations. We wouldn't even have a PCV system if it weren't for the Feds and EPA. Trying to get a catch can to pass by Federal regulators is tough, just getting an engine through it tough, so why complicate it with adding something like a catch can if they can just deal with the "side effect" through the dealers? Its a logistical issue. I prefer to run one on my truck just because that's what I have done on most of my turbo'ed cars. It is/can be personal preference. I choose to do it.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

I would like to point out that I was a professional independent mechanic working primarily on older Mercs, BMW's and Porsche's for 2 years before I was an aircraft mechanic. Since I have been turning wrenches on all of the 29 cars I have owned thus far. I am very qualified on this topic as well. Now granted I don't have a working knowledge of the Ecoboost specifically, but I have been working on turbo'ed engines for years now. Also to your point about premium car companies not running catch cans on their car from the factory, that really comes down to federal emission regulations. We wouldn't even have a PCV system if it weren't for the Feds and EPA. Trying to get a catch can to pass by Federal regulators is tough, just getting an engine through it tough, so why complicate it with adding something like a catch can if they can just deal with the "side effect" through the dealers? Its a logistical issue. I prefer to run one on my truck just because that's what I have done on most of my turbo'ed cars. It is/can be personal preference. I choose to do it.

Its always a choice. You are doing what you feel comfortable with for the reasons you see fit. I have no problem with that. Don't get the info I provide confused with me attempting to tell anyone what to do. Hey its YOUR truck and you should do what you see fit to do with it.
I'm not in any way trying to discount your knowledge or ability. I believe we are a lot alike. I think that any disagreement we may have on this subject may be due to a point being lost. Of the 29 cars you've owned and turned your own rinchiz on how many of them were turbocharged and employed a catch can? How many of those had performance modifications and/or had the boost turned up higher than the stock levels? You see my point is that these things aren't needed on STOCK engines. Performance mods can/will dictate the need for additional equipment or changes to OEM systems.

 

[limited]

I expect this discussion could go on forever. Let me ask the question of what negative draw backs or repercussions could come from running a catch can other than the obvious warrant issues ?

 

[Nasty Wendy]

I expect this discussion could go on forever. Let me ask the question of what negative draw backs or repercussions could come from running a catch can other than the obvious warrant issues ?

Only time will tell if there are any. The example I gave with the SVT Lightnings is the type of thing that jumps up and bites you in the ass. Ford spent millions in research and development of these engines and did the best they could to cover all the bases. I'd be willing to bet that none of their testing involved a catch can so we really don't have any knowledge of what the long term effects will be. Possibly no bad would come from it, probably no gain to be had either. How many times did they empty the catch can in the torture test? If THAT engine didn't need a catch can then no stocker should.

 

[limited]

Only time will tell if there are any. The example I gave with the SVT Lightnings is the type of thing that jumps up and bites you in the ass. Ford spent millions in research and development of these engines and did the best they could to cover all the bases. I'd be willing to bet that none of their testing involved a catch can so we really don't have any knowledge of what the long term effects will be. Possibly no bad would come from it, probably no gain to be had either. How many times did they empty the catch can in the torture test? If THAT engine didn't need a catch can then no stocker should.

All good points. I know a catch can is a big deal in the corvette community and I never saw much oil deposits with the few vettes that didn't have a catch can except perhaps a thin film on TB's but just about everyone that does any modification with a vette has put one on . Of course a lot of those folks I found also had a TB spacer and we all know how worthless those are.

 

[noodles]

Hey guys, we have too many catch can posts. Here's what I just posted in the stage three motorsports catch can thread. Btw, I'm new here. "Hey guys, just joined up, and after checking this catch can post, I figured I may as well respond with my experience. I have a 2013 CC Ecoboost XTR 3.31 gears. I have 2 catch cans installed. I'll post pics this weekend... I'll try to explain this as best and least confusing as possible. On the '13, the PCV is on the pass side, the driver's side is not a PCV valve (it allows air into the engine when the PCV in the pass side is active (under vaccum), but it also works as a PCV when under boost. The PCV on the pass side only flows one way, it shuts off when under boost. Now, for the dirty details and dilemma (without pics so far). Should you use 2 catch cans? Yes. if you can only afford one, which side should you put it on? With first hand experience, if you tow lots and are mostly under boost conditions, put it on the drivers side, as the pass side is not active under boost. If you drive it nicely and aren't into boost all the time, put one on the pass side. On a trip this summer to Nova Scotia and back (3200kms) towing a trailer, all highway at 110km/hr, my 750ml capacity catch can on the driver's side collected 300ml of oil, while the pass side (PCV), was negligible, but enough to warrant having one there at 50ml collected. Since emptying the catch cans at that time, I have put on 4500 kms without towing, and normally drive 85% highway at 110km/hr (truck likes it there). I just did an oil change and emptied the PCV catch can, and it collected about 200ml, while the driver's side wasn't showing on the sight tube. Now, to confuse you more, I also run an industrial one-way brass valve in between the pass side catch can and the intake manifold, so that the catch can does not pressurize when under boost conditions. I don't have the p/n for the valve, but it has 1/2" NPT ports, rated at 250 psi, and it has a cracking pressure of only 0.5psi, which means that when the engine is under vaccum, the valve will open and allow the PCV to breathe. Well, long post, but I hope informative. NOTES: The industrial valve must have a diaphragm style valve, and NOT a spring type. The oil you empty from the pass side can be, if you must, put back into the engine. The driver's side should be discarded, as there seems to have water content in there (Looks like a dd coffee)." Personally, I'd like too see the underside of the driver side cam cover. For that much oil to get collected in the can, there must be very little, if any baffling where the breather is on there. The oil from the driver's side without a catch can will go first into the turbo impeller, then continue it's way through the intercooler and piping. The pass side will "just" get your intake manifold and the valves.