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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
the text over your avatar does say Sr member !
but with that said i have the E-lock rear and i dont like the fact that it locks solid and spins the inside tire whenever you turn
i am just fine with it unlocking at 25 mph plus i know if i am driving in the snow it will not allow both tires to spin and put me into a slide
if it was up to me i would rather have the E-lock on the front end
Everyone has different needs and reasons. I live in a rugged, mountainous region where we get snow as early as October and as late as April. It can easily snow 2 - 3 feet in a 24 hour period (and it has). Some of the major highways are covered in snow & ice for for months and if you are not doing at least 60 mph (or faster) you'll have a big semi blow by you, peppering your vehicle with the crushed rock the highway crews refer to as "sand" and knock out your windshield. One highway was only completed in the 1980s because it snowed so much, the Government didn't considered it possible to keep it open during the winter.

In the summer, I can also go on about the gazzilion miles of back roads in the back country...some you can't take too fast, others you can easily hit 45-50mph.

These are reasons I bought a 4WD truck in the first place. I would have preferred an LS but I was explained the "E-Locker on the Ford F150 is as good as an LS". Unfortunately, I already had a chance to try it on some backroads, and the E-Locker kicking out at 25mph and becoming an "open diff" caused unwanted wheel spin where I was travelling.

I was hoping someone here was aware of a "fix or modification" to make our trucks work like the Raptor and they either had done it or knew someone who had done it. Especially, when Ford doesn't have these same limitations on the Raptor.

I guess what I want is a Raptor with the Ecoboost engine.
 

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Man, I was under the impression our trucks came with limited slip. I have always been under the impression that locking the rear end was for something like rock climbing. I guess they are using traction control (aka brakes) to accomplish what LS has done in the past. However it is not really the same. With our trucks...when TC is enabled does it also cut the motor when it detects wheel spin?

Sent from my iPhone using F150 EcoBoost
 

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Man, I was under the impression our trucks came with limited slip. I have always been under the impression that locking the rear end was for something like rock climbing. I guess they are using traction control (aka brakes) to accomplish what LS has done in the past. However it is not really the same. With our trucks...when TC is enabled does it also cut the motor when it detects wheel spin?

Sent from my iPhone using F150 EcoBoost
limited slip is an option for the 9.75" rear with 3.55 and 3.73 gears but only available from factory for select models
on the other hand it can be setup and installed on any of them
our TC system does cut engine power even under hard acceleration before wheel spin even happens and definetly after spin is detected
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
limited slip is an option for the 9.75" rear with 3.55 and 3.73 gears but only available from factory for select models ...
That's the problem. With the XLT 4x4 Supercab 6.6' box, the 3.55 LS only could be had with 5.0 V8. With the 3.73LS, I had to get the 8' box.

But it really didn't matter, the dealership didn't have any 2013 F150s with an LS on the lot. The only way I could get an LS is either travel out-of-town and hope a dealer there had a truck with LS or look at a different make.

My brother and I were talking last night about the 4x4s we drove when we were kids in the 60s & 70s; and he reminded me how 4x4s then use "locking hubs" on all 4 wheels and we never had any problems when off-roading or snow.
 

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That's the problem. With the XLT 4x4 Supercab 6.6' box, the 3.55 LS only could be had with 5.0 V8. With the 3.73LS, I had to get the 8' box.

But it really didn't matter, the dealership didn't have any 2013 F150s with an LS on the lot. The only way I could get an LS is either travel out-of-town and hope a dealer there had a truck with LS or look at a different make.

My brother and I were talking last night about the 4x4s we drove when we were kids in the 60s & 70s; and he reminded me how 4x4s then use "locking hubs" on all 4 wheels and we never had any problems when off-roading or snow.
Locking hubs on the front are used to disconnect the axle shafts to the wheels from the differential so none of the gears/shafts/etc are spinning and eating horsepower when 4wd is not needed.
Locking hubs on the rear are used to disconnect the wheels from the axle shafts so you can flat tow.

If all four wheels were unlocked, you wouldn't move on your own power. All four wheels locked only means you CAN get power to all four, not that you HAVE power to all four. Power distribution is determined by the differentials.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Locking hubs on the front are used to disconnect the axle shafts to the wheels from the differential so none of the gears/shafts/etc are spinning and eating horsepower when 4wd is not needed.
Locking hubs on the rear are used to disconnect the wheels from the axle shafts so you can flat tow.

If all four wheels were unlocked, you wouldn't move on your own power. All four wheels locked only means you CAN get power to all four, not that you HAVE power to all four. Power distribution is determined by the differentials.
Thanks, it was nearly 50 years ago and the vehicles were old Jeeps modified by previous owners. I never thought about the type of differentials they my have had at that time. We were thinking of the "locking action" while we all watched the tires on our stuck Jeeps kick up mud. But I see precisely what you are saying, and your are right. It's more of an "unlocking action"...never quite thought of it that way.

Hell most people are stunned when you tell them that unless the 4x4s have an LS on the diffs, they are really only 2x4s with one wheel up front and one wheel in the back. I haven't checked on our fronts, but I assumed the fronts on our trucks are open diffs, so with the E-lock, you really only have a 3x4 at best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I have been doing more research (to see if it is possible to convert our E-Locker to work like the Raptors), and I did find some interesting info on the differences between Lockers and Limited Slip Diffs.

The most interesting discussion was how a Limited Slip, when transferring power between the "slipping wheel" to the "traction wheel", will only transfer part of the power and less than 50%. On the other hand, a Locker will split the power 50/50, so the traction wheel will get more power than with an E-Locker than with a Limited Slip.

I thought this was an interesting fact favoring retaining the E-Locker and finding a solution to the "low unlock speed" on our trucks (versus the Raptor) than converting to a Limited Slip.
 

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I have been doing more research (to see if it is possible to convert our E-Locker to work like the Raptors), and I did find some interesting info on the differences between Lockers and Limited Slip Diffs.

The most interesting discussion was how a Limited Slip, when transferring power between the "slipping wheel" to the "traction wheel", will only transfer part of the power and less than 50%. On the other hand, a Locker will split the power 50/50, so the traction wheel will get more power than with an E-Locker than with a Limited Slip.

I thought this was an interesting fact favoring retaining the E-Locker and finding a solution to the "low unlock speed" on our trucks (versus the Raptor) than converting to a Limited Slip.
Lockers send 100% power to both wheels when locked.
Limited slips like the Detroit Truetrac have come a long way. As long as both tires have some traction it will lock up. If a tire is off the ground, it can't lock up enough transfer power to the wheel with traction.
 

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i knew the limited slip was not efficient but it can be effective.
with physical numbers i can see your point
 

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Lockers send 100% power to both wheels when locked.
Limited slips like the Detroit Truetrac have come a long way. As long as both tires have some traction it will lock up. If a tire is off the ground, it can't lock up enough transfer power to the wheel with traction.
i agree the design of aftermarket stuff changes these facts and figures
there is a limited slip out there by powertrax i believe along the lines of an EZ locker that takes input shaft torgue and transfers 100% to both wheels even if one is off the ground but they are cheap and wear out after yrs of use and also noisy as they lock and unlock during turns when torque is let off of the input shaft
they have a limited use and even have been known to fail mechanically
 

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i agree the design of aftermarket stuff changes these facts and figures
there is a limited slip out there by powertrax i believe along the lines of an EZ locker that takes input shaft torgue and transfers 100% to both wheels even if one is off the ground but they are cheap and wear out after yrs of use and also noisy as they lock and unlock during turns when torque is let off of the input shaft
they have a limited use and even have been known to fail mechanically
I ran the Lock Right Lockers (EZ copied this design) in my Tacoma.

You pull the guts out of the carrier and put these parts in. They will unlock if you let off the gas to coast, but will lock up and cause the truck to buck and chirp the tires in a tight parking lot.
I had 100,000+ miles on mine and not one part broke. Hell the rear one looked brand new when I pulled it out before I sold the truck.

They are cheap (price, not quality)
They do click, bang, and pop
They do have crappy parking lot manners
They do lock up tight when you need it the most.
They are hella fun on wet pavement. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
Lockers send 100% power to both wheels when locked.
....
Hmm, that would mean a 300HP engine would send 300HP to one wheel and another 300HP to the other wheel = 600 HP?

That is why I said "50/50"....just symantics. But my real point was, an E-Locker over you typcial LS transmit more useable power to the traction wheel when the other wheel is spinning.
 
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Hmm, that would mean a 300HP engine would send 300HP to one wheel and another 300HP to the other wheel = 600 HP?

That is why I said "50/50"....symantics.
Your 50/50 would mean that a tire in the air still has 150 Hp on it and the other tire, while firmly planted only has half available power.

My 100/100 means it is effectively a double width tire since both tires are locked and rotating equally in a fully locked condition.

It is semantics, but in this case two halves the whole does not make.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Your 50/50 would mean that a tire in the air still has 150 Hp on it and the other tire, while firmly planted only has half available power.

My 100/100 means it is effectively a double width tire since both tires are locked and rotating equally in a fully locked condition.

It is semantics, but in this case two halves the whole does not make.
Now you got me thinking this would be a good question for "Mythbusters". Measure the torque on the input shaft and measure the torque on each output shaft.

And while we are at it, compare an E-Locker to a Limited Slip.

Jamie likes trucks.
 

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Now you got me thinking this would be a good question for "Mythbusters". Measure the torque on the input shaft and measure the torque on each output shaft.

And while we are at it, compare an E-Locker to a Limited Slip.

Jamie likes trucks.
They probably already did something similar. ;)

The diff doesn't divide the torque it just applies it to two shafts. With all things being equal (traction, tire diameter, etc) both should read full power if you could measure independently.

Think of a power strip with two lamps plugged in. Both have 120v (US, not sure bout up north) and glow equally bright. If one blows the other doesn't get twice as bright.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Think of a power strip with two lamps plugged in. Both have 120v (US, not sure bout up north) and glow equally bright. If one blows the other doesn't get twice as bright.
Yeah we are 110v also, same plug too.

I was going to discuss whether you connect them in parallel vs series. The two in series burn with only half the intensity compared the two in parallel. But we would be digressing.

I still have this urge to convert our Ecoboost trucks to operate with the E-Locker like the Raptors do. Or wait for the 2014s and get a new truck if Ford decides to allow our trucks to work like the Raptors. To me, it's all a marketing ploy ... similar to Chevy (sorry) having this rule that the Camaro can never make more power than the Corvette ... even when they have the same engine.
 

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Yeah we are 110v also, same plug too.

I was going to discuss whether you connect them in parallel vs series. The two in series burn with only half the intensity compared the two in parallel. But we would be digressing.

I still have this urge to convert our Ecoboost trucks to operate with the E-Locker like the Raptors do. Or wait for the 2014s and get a new truck if Ford decides to allow our trucks to work like the Raptors. To me, it's all a marketing ploy ... similar to Chevy (sorry) having this rule that the Camaro can never make more power than the Corvette ... even when they have the same engine.
Then we could discuss capacitive versus inductive loads. Haha.

Back to the original quest. I know it's doable.
I really think you could run a single pole double throw switch. Position one allows the truck to lock and unlock as commanded by the PCM. Position two runs a constant hot direct to the relay for the locker.

So middle leg of switch is the + line to the locker
One outer leg is the incoming PCM signal
Other outer leg is hot from battery

Unless this locker is somehow running off of a voltage that's not 12v.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I would love to find a wiring diagram of the circuit and see if your mod could work.

I actually like my truck (other than the fuel mileage ... which I hope the PCM update will fix). Also, I hate frying pans, like the one my wife would throw at me when I come home with another new truck.
 

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oh so you admit that a switched relay would work !
i dont see why it wouldnt, we have 2 electric cooling fans that are switched on and off with a thermostat but there is an overide relay on them that runs the fans continuous when the A/C is turned on.
these would be resistive loads !
what i am unsure of is that a 3rd input may also be connected to these fans and if it is then it would be controlled by the ECM which would cut power to the entire fan circuit at highway speed because the force of air would be greater than the fans anyway and you no longer need them to be running and applying load to the alternator
 
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