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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
oh so you admit that a switched relay would work !
No, I just said I suspected Ford wouldn't make it that easy. Typcially, I find when people say "easy" and "plug & play" seldom are. I wish I had a nickel for every time I tried to install some "simple mod" that could be "supposedly done in a couple hours with some simple hand tools and a straight bolt in" (as seen on Horsepower TV or Trucks) ... suddenly become an entire weekend (or two, or three), every tool in my tool chest is pulled out along with the compressor, and I'm about to call up my brother to borrow his arc welder.

In other words, I would be the jumping for joy and praising the lord, if it was.
 

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No, I just said I suspected Ford wouldn't make it that easy. Typcially, I find when people say "easy" and "plug & play" seldom are. I wish I had a nickel for every time I tried to install some "simple mod" that could be "supposedly done in a couple hours with some simple hand tools and a straight bolt in" (as seen on Horsepower TV or Trucks) ... suddenly become an entire weekend (or two, or three), every tool in my tool chest is pulled out along with the compressor, and I'm about to call up my brother to borrow his arc welder.

In other words, I would be the jumping for joy and praising the lord, if it was.
Did someone say Courtney Hansen?!?
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·

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Unfortunately, I'm old enough to be her father... but I can dream.
I'm just a year younger than she is, but I'd have a better chance of winning the power-ball lottery twice than getting as much as a hug out of her.
Although, she makes it much easier to watch the goofballs on Power Block.
 

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Hmm, that would mean a 300HP engine would send 300HP to one wheel and another 300HP to the other wheel = 600 HP?

That is why I said "50/50"....just symantics. But my real point was, an E-Locker over you typcial LS transmit more useable power to the traction wheel when the other wheel is spinning.
300 horses is 300 horses no matter how many wheels its using to get it to the ground. It's not like distributing weight through two wheels vs one ( or ten for that matter) if both wheels are on the same surface, both axles are under the same 300 horsepower stress. Locking the axles spreads the load (traction) between the two axles, it doesn't divide or multiply the horsepower.
If you still need more proof put one on a dyno. The dyno will show the same horsepower being applied to the rollers with one axle driving it or ten.
 

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300 horses is 300 horses no matter how many wheels its using to get it to the ground. It's not like distributing weight through two wheels vs one ( or ten for that matter) if both wheels are on the same surface, both axles are under the same 300 horsepower stress. Locking the axles spreads the load (traction) between the two axles, it doesn't divide or multiply the horsepower.
If you still need more proof put one on a dyno. The dyno will show the same horsepower being applied to the rollers with one axle driving it or ten.
Playing devils advocate here.

More wheels equals less weight? So a single wheeled vehicle has better traction than a many wheeled vehicle because there is less weight to hold the wheels to the pavement?

;)

Just like the horsepower analogy, if the weight is over the axle, all tires have all the weight on them...it's just spread out over a larger area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Again, it was "semantics" ... you say color ... I say colour... we both mean the same thing. I was typing fast and not trying to give a physics lesson .... which I last took over 40 years ago in high school.

My point was if the LS you have uses a "clutch mechanism" (most I have seen do, a few do not, I heard that the newer LS on the GM trucks actually lock now at a certain point .... I am assuming the Ford system available on our truck uses a clutch mechanism ... I haven't studied it). The clutch mechanism is what cause on the LS to internally slip one wheel a little to faciliate corners. On dry pavement (lets ignore slippery or "in the air") ... one wheel will get the FULL torque and other will not get full torque on an LS system using a clutch mechanism. Unlike an E-Locker (which I am starting to like) the E-Locker will transmit the full torque to each wheel equally.

Just like when you slip the clutch on a manual vehicle ... the full amount of torque isn't transmitted through to the wheels. Test that on a dyno if you would like. I know for a fact it will not, because when I was working with a few guys a number of years ago when tuning their EFI cars, and a few times they could not get a good run because their clutch was slipping.

And yes, the "tire area" as scap99 is completely correct (though I may suggest a minor adjustment for the amount of torque transmitted to each wheel). But let's assume E-Locker. If the contact patch of each tire is 100 sq in and you are transmitting 300 lb/ft of TQ, with an open diff (aka Peg Leg) one tire will get 3 lb/tq per sq.in while the other gets none. conversely if it is an E-Locker, you now have 200 sq in of contact and you will have 1.5 lb/tq per sq.in of contact. The dyno doesn't measure or care about the amount of torque per sq.in on the contact area ... it only measures TOTAL torque transmitted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
PS: I might suggest we get the Moderators to move this post to another forum. I originally posted it to see if Bill knew of a mechanism to have the E-Locker override it's initial programming (whether a simple switch, swapping of electrical components or reprograming of the PCM).

My knowledge base is other vehicles ... this is the first Ford I have owned and I haven't (yet) had the time to study things to figure out how or where they are controlled. It has been my experience that more and more things are controlled through the PCM or one of it's components that can generally be reprogrammed ... and 90% of the time someone has done it or done a fair amount of it, just requiring a few more pieces of the jig-saw puzzle.

I really would like to find an answer to this problem of controlling the E-Locker, at least like a Raptor can, becuase for my use, locking the diff to a higher speed would really solve a lot of applications I intend for my truck.
 

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No I failed to clarify that. More wheels means more contact patch which means more traction. My point is that while you are spreading the stress of the power acting on the axles, there's still 300 horses acting on the axles. Lets use a go kart solid type axle. No matter how you divide the equations, there is going to be a 300 horse load on the axle. There are too many variables to say one particular setup will work best. In an open differential there is an enormous variable in the amount of torque applied to each wheel dependent on the available traction.
Anyway, back to the original post, I'm not trying to argue this point but why would you want to lock the diff at higher speeds? Curiosity more than any argument.
 

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I don't see a need to lock at higher speeds, but I've driven tens of thousands of miles with a locker and you don't even know its there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
No I failed to clarify that. More wheels means more contact patch which means more traction. My point is that while you are spreading the stress of the power acting on the axles, there's still 300 horses acting on the axles. Lets use a go kart solid type axle. No matter how you divide the equations, there is going to be a 300 horse load on the axle. There are too many variables to say one particular setup will work best. In an open differential there is an enormous variable in the amount of torque applied to each wheel dependent on the available traction.
Anyway, back to the original post, I'm not trying to argue this point but why would you want to lock the diff at higher speeds? Curiosity more than any argument.
Everyone has different needs. If you read further back, you'll see I live up north where we have snow on the ground for a very long time. It is extremely mountainous and the highways are often covered in snow and ice. It is the reason I bought a 4x4 in the first place. The more wheels I have with power going to them, the better. The last thing you want to start doing is slipping because you have too few wheels with power.

Alternatively, I also do a lot of backroad travelling. I already hit the situation where my locker "kicked out" and I lost traction.

If you don't drive in either of those situations, then you probably don't need for it or care about it. Heck, probably a person doesn't even need a 4x4...many people don't (but own one anyway).

I would even say, "Why didn't Ford put these same limitations on the Raptor"? The Raptor does not have the speed limitations in 4HI or 4LO. I am uncertain on the 2WD ... I think it may be a "model year" situation.

Bottom line, I am trying to find someone who has made the modification to their Ecoboost 4x4 to work like the Raptor so I don't have to "re-invent the wheel" and avoid wasting time & energy where I don't need to ... and can concentrate where I do. At this point, no one at this website appears to have done so (yet).
 

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Bill, I thought I would ask you since you may know of a fix for this. My truck has the electronic rear differential, but it only locks until 25 mph when in 4HI (or 2wd). It will stay locked until nearly 60mph in 4LO.

On some other trucks (i.e. Toyota), you can simply buy a switch and manually keep the electronic rear diff locked. Are you aware of any such device for our trucks or ways to modify it so we can keep the rear diff locked (until we choose to unlock it).

Alternatively, is there a way to modify the programming so we can alter the threshold speed for locking and unlocking through a programmer option?


I am wondering why anyone would run a truck at 60 mph in low 4 wheel drive
 

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I definitely don't suggest using the locker on pavement besides, the drag strip. I let a friend of mine's girl friend borrow my '06 frontier nismo, told her three times not to hit the locker. Well, when i get my truck back the locker was engaged... Turns out she ran all over town with it on not realizing it. The next day i was heading back to work from lunch, turned at an intersection got on it, and BAMMM. Chunktified my diff... It's a hell of a lot of fun flying down a gravel though.

Is the raptor 4wd module plug and play with ours???
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
I am wondering why anyone would run a truck at 60 mph in low 4 wheel drive
Because they cannot keep the rear wheels locked in 4Hi past 30mph and they need to drive faster than 30mph?

j/k (kind of).

You are right ... unless there is something else special about 4LO other than the E-Locker stays locked longer, I would think most people would switch to 4HI. Especially with ESOF (Electronic Shift On the Fly for you home gamers).
 

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there is nothing is fords literature (workshop manual) that states thart the raptor ELD operates any differently than the regular trucks...here is a quote straight from the workshop manual:

The ELD system, which is optional on Electronic Shift-On-The-Fly (ESOF) equipped vehicles, allows the operator to lock the rear differential side gears when in 4H or 4L mode. ELD operation is requested by pulling out on the MSS when in 4H or 4L mode.
The operator can switch between 4H mode without ELD or 4H mode with ELD at speeds up to 30 km/h (19 mph). In 4H, the ELD will disengage at speeds above 40 km/h (25 mph) and will automatically reengage at speeds below 30 km/h (19 mph).
To engage or disengage the ELD while in 4L range, the vehicle speed must be less than 90 km/h (56 mph).
 

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ok scratch that!...i just found it in the WSM...it states that raptors have to be in "off road mode" for the speed limitations to be lifted for ELD operation......so the raptors do operate differently but only in this selected mode...
 

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It's my understanding that the raptor has an offroad mode that overrides that function.
 

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ok scratch that!...i just found it in the WSM...it states that raptors have to be in "off road mode" for the speed limitations to be lifted for ELD operation......so the raptors do operate differently but only in this selected mode...
Oops. Just beat me to it.
 

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I would really like to see the operation of the ELD saying locked until a higher speed (like 65 mph) as well. I use the rig to go hunting in some pretty crazy conditions and have, on occasion, needed to spin the tires pretty good to get out of the sticky ickies! I would like to see a tuner manufacturer come out with this feature as well as the tunes preloaded into the programming device. They have heard what this forum has said in the past............Stage 3 Motorsports, maybe you can help us out here!
 
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