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Discussion Starter #1
This morning I noticed when I started my truck that I had a CEL illuminated. Checked the codes, p0420 and 0430. Cat system threshold below thresholds. I cleared the codes, the truck seems to be running fine.

Things that I think need to be noted:

• 80,000 miles

• I did a lot of heavy towing this weekend in the mountains. Truck pulled fantastic.

• I'm running a 5* 93 p/tow tune currently.

• Both banks seem to have thrown this code simultaneously.

• Yesterday on the way home, I got a wrench light and the truck went into limp mode once on some hard climbs. I checked for codes, but it has been my experience that if you don't check immediately when that happens, it says no codes found. I ASSUMED it was an under or overboost code, as I have had that happen occasionally with basically every different tuner o have used. Usually once I can verify the code for them they can tune it out, and it has always been a tune issue, not a truck issue. I think this is unrelated, but must be noted I guess. I pulled over, shut the truck off, and continued home for 4 more hours after that with no issues.

• I noticed this right after I started the truck and it idled a minute while I was clearing some frost, but I think it was there as soon as I cranked it up. My wife took the truck into town for groceries last night, so it could have come on then and I wouldn't have known. It was not there last night when I was parking the camper in the yard.



What do I need to investigate? 5* running me too rich and maybe plugging my cats? Just at the end of their life? O2 sensors?

I could be wrong, but it seems unlikely both cats or both o2 sensors would fail at the same time. Pulled strong all day yesterday. STRONG. Drove fine this morning after clearing the codes, but that was only about 5 miles.

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I know with my stock tune with prolonged boost 1600*F is to be expected. The first long pull I remember stopping for gas and when I opened the door I could smell it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This is occurring during normal around town driving. It came back after I drove home for lunch. I'm seeing 1200-1400 degrees upstream on bank 1. That's currently the only one I have configured. I might build a config file tonight to watch this better. The next order of business will be trying the stock tune.

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Discussion Starter #4
Tapping on the cats doesn't return any rattling.

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It seems the cases we have seen on here, this is bad o2 sensors.

Keep us up to date. Maybe if you get it hot, it will clear some **** out...may be related to the tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I tried to give it an Italian tune up twice today. Lol.

The cat temps are 1200-1400 driving around normally, 1500 is easy to hit on a quick spirited jaunt.

Is it not strange that both sides are throwing the code? Are there things I should be monitoring for for more clues?

I flashed to stock this afternoon.


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Discussion Starter #7
I did a lot of researching last night and this morning, didn't come up with much.

What I did come up with, is that cat failure on an eco is not too uncommon. Obviously it can be a cat or O2 sensors, but I read that it's less likely for bad o2 sensors to throw this code. It sounds like they more often throw a p013x code, but it does happen.

There are a few other things I read that can either cause the light, or cause the cats to go bad. Leaky injectors, exhaust leaks, etc. But I think most of them would come along with other symptoms? I have none.

What I have not found is whether it's peculiar for both cats or both o2 sensors to fail simultaneously and throw both bank codes at once or not. I guess it's that part that makes me cautious to just assume hey it's bad cats or bad o2 sensors.

I also have not found yet what I might need to monitor that can tell me yes, a cat(s) is bad or they seem fine. I still didn't have time last night to create a file that lets me see both banks up and downstream. On my new Livewire the only config file I have loaded right now only shows me cat temp on bank 1 sensor 1. I have rarely watched this and can't remember what's normal. I'm seeing 1200-1400 degrees, I got into it a little bit this morning at around 8 psi for a minute or two and saw 1600 degrees. Stock tune.

So far the stock tune has not thrown the codes, but I only have less than 10 miles on it.

At 30 or 40,000 miles I replaced the O2 sensors when I was investigating the erratic knock I see sometimes which made no change in anything. I'm sure those old ones are fine and I still have them in the parts bin. I may swap them in before I drop $90 on a new set. $90 would go a long way on new downpipes.


If I'm going to burn up cats every 80k, I'd almost like to just do away with them...

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I did a lot of researching last night and this morning, didn't come up with much.

What I did come up with, is that cat failure on an eco is not too uncommon. Obviously it can be a cat or O2 sensors, but I read that it's less likely for bad o2 sensors to throw this code. It sounds like they more often throw a p013x code, but it does happen.

There are a few other things I read that can either cause the light, or cause the cats to go bad. Leaky injectors, exhaust leaks, etc. But I think most of them would come along with other symptoms? I have none.

What I have not found is whether it's peculiar for both cats or both o2 sensors to fail simultaneously and throw both bank codes at once or not. I guess it's that part that makes me cautious to just assume hey it's bad cats or bad o2 sensors.

I also have not found yet what I might need to monitor that can tell me yes, a cat(s) is bad or they seem fine. I still didn't have time last night to create a file that lets me see both banks up and downstream. On my new Livewire the only config file I have loaded right now only shows me cat temp on bank 1 sensor 1. I have rarely watched this and can't remember what's normal. I'm seeing 1200-1400 degrees, I got into it a little bit this morning at around 8 psi for a minute or two and saw 1600 degrees. Stock tune.

So far the stock tune has not thrown the codes, but I only have less than 10 miles on it.

At 30 or 40,000 miles I replaced the O2 sensors when I was investigating the erratic knock I see sometimes which made no change in anything. I'm sure those old ones are fine and I still have them in the parts bin. I may swap them in before I drop $90 on a new set. $90 would go a long way on new downpipes.


If I'm going to burn up cats every 80k, I'd almost like to just do away with them...

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So far, no CEL with the stock tune.

Interesting. Veerrrryyy interesting.

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I'm guessing the hotter tune is rich enough to perhaps put it over the limit of what your cats can handle at the moment.
Just because they're not doing their job fully, doesn't mean they are plugged up.
Maybe a set of extenders can be enough to "fix" the issue while running your aftermarket tunes.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It finally threw the codes this morning on the stock tune. I guess this weekend I'll try to swap in my spare o2 sensors and see what that does, if anything. Temps seem the same on either tune.

Boostking told me that running too lean can actually ruin the cats quicker than too rich, but I didn't ask him to elaborate.

I thought about running extenders for now with the oem cats, but I don't want to mask a real problem. I doubt there is actually a true problem, but I still don't want to take a chance of just covering it up and causing myself any issues.

If there is a silver lining, Black Friday sales will be right around the corner. I'm not looking forward to pulling the downpipes.



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Hi, I'm getting the same P0430 on stock tune (my performance tune must mask it, but do get P0299). I went ahead and ordered the Kooks Catted Green downpipe, hopefully that resolves it. I'll probably get all new 02 sensors. Mine is a 2013 with 128K miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
This morning I logged cat temp banks 1 and 2 and rear o2 sensor voltage both banks and intend to look at the graphs and see what I can find compared to the information in the video above.

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Discussion Starter #15
The problem I see with just slapping a set of downpipes on it is, if your code persists, you can't be sure if the code is because of the aftermarket downpipes, or because of some problem you had that's still there. That's sort of where I'm stuck in my head on this right now.

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Discussion Starter #17
The same as ever. Very near 1.0 lambda unless my foot is on the floor, where it will drop to about .77.

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The same as ever. Very near 1.0 lambda unless my foot is on the floor, where it will drop to about .77.

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At WOT, that’s little rich, but shouldn’t cause any harm. The cats would get hotter, the leaner you get.

Hmmm, maybe it was running lean in partial throttle while you were towing. I’m just guessing, but if new O2’s don’t fix it, you may have bad cats.


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Discussion Starter #19
I'm noticing a lot of fluctuating today on that rear o2 sensor voltage sort of like the Makuloco video above. I didn't monitor AFR at all while I was towing, so I don't really know what was going on there. But, to be honest I have never paid that much attention so I wouldn't be sure of a benchmark to compare it to anyway. The AFR I stated above is on the stock tune, that's where I am right now. I've gathered a few logs to review soon, now I want to do the same on the tow tune. It takes a lot longer to throw the codes on the OEM tune.

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Discussion Starter #20

It doesn't take but a portion of this video to see what I'm talking about.

My rear o2 sensor voltage seems to run at a steady rate sometimes, then others one or both of them will start to oscillate around wildly, much like the video you posted for me Noodles.


I have a couple of logs to review in graph format, I just haven't yet. The laptop and the tablet I have to use are getting old, and a real PITA to use. They freeze up and all kinds of mess and it always takes 3 times as long as it should to do anything on them.

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