F150 Ecoboost Forum banner

41 - 60 of 72 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,231 Posts
It's been a long time since I worried or investigated this. The specifics are fuzzy, but I have many logs in the archives shot to various tuners of this.

One thing making me hesitate to call this false is this.

I mentioned it happens stock, and it does. Cyl 6 can max out at -6 KR while other cylinders are adding timing. Occasionally I would get something like that happening on a different cylinder though and 6 was adding timing. It most often occurred on 6 though, and sometimes was across the board pulling timing on most or all cylinders.

However, it didn't happen all that frequently.

Enter being tuned, and it might happen on all cylinders most of the time, and it was much, much more repeatable. I could literally induce this condition at will on certain tunes, sometimes back to back to back to back within a short few minutes of logging.

My uneducated guess is that, with this being easier and more prevalent while tuned points to it maybe being real? Due to more boost and timing causing more knock or LSPI?

However, I've also pointed out that I actually had timing REMOVED with MPT and it got WORSE. So, who the hell knows?

I found tunes that work okay and I really don't mind driving my truck stock too bad either (with the pedal commamder bumped up a notch) and the engine still has no extra vent holes.

Maybe ignorance is bliss but I just couldn't keep fretting over it any more.

I can WOT my truck and don't have any problems. Good enough.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,073 Posts
One of the things you can do is have the tuner send you a file with individual knock set up instead of Global. From there, datalog your individual knock per cylinder and see where it's detecting the knock activity from. When you have individual knock per cylinder datalogged, the positive numbers mean it's adding and negative numbers are removing spark. Do this and report back. This way you can somewhat see on what side and area it's coming from.

Also, min load to enter knock activity stock is .4 load, min ECT is 140*F, and min rpm is 800 rpms. Once all of those are met, you should be able to see your knock sensors register activity. If it doesn't, this was adjusted in the tune.
I see the 0.4 Load in my stock tune on HPT as well. My gearhead tow tune I am currently running is definitely not activating KR until 0.8
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
I see the 0.4 Load in my stock tune on HPT as well. My gearhead tow tune I am currently running is definitely not activating KR until 0.8
Yikes! Not my preference but some folks do their thing their way so there is that. As for the OP, I could manipulate knock activity in individual at one point as well. Hell I even added Octanium into my gas tank thinking it's actual knock. I could not find ANYTHING causing vibration, can't remember which side it was. So I was on stock tune, individual, could manipulate knock activity by tipping in at a certain condition and there it was. Plugs looked fine.

I ended up putting some cardboard on the side of my UPR Mega catch can because it was hitting my on3 intercooler. I also zip tied some vacuum lines and the lines for the catch can out of the way as well. Haven't had an issue since. Personally I'd recommend doing a compression test just to be sure and do what I did and see if that helps. Like I said, I couldn't find any clean spots (where something may have been hitting) but I did what I described and everything went well.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,231 Posts
I went so far as to compression test, scope my cylinders, and I've pulled the plugs several times. Swapped O2 sensors, added a catch can, tried a new purge valve, map sensors, I threw a few things at it.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Well you can try what I mentioned and see if that helps. Otherwise without a log or anything like that, there isn't much we can do to help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #46
I went so far as to compression test, scope my cylinders, and I've pulled the plugs several times. Swapped O2 sensors, added a catch can, tried a new purge valve, map sensors, I threw a few things at it.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk
I thought I came across a thread where you explained @Boostking is able to fix this part throttle knock issue with his tunes? Are you saying you tried all those things before going to his tunes?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,231 Posts
Yes, and also as I've mentioned it's not totally gone with his tuning, just drastically reduced. I still see it occasionally, but not so much that I worry about it any more.

I've logged and logged and logged and logged on this issue. I've sent logs to tuners, fellow enthusiasts, anybody who cared to take a gander.

I found BoostKing's tunes. We got it under control while still allowing me a good performance bump, and I quit chasing it. I've tried everything you say we should try. I've looked for sources of false knock until I was sick over it. Hands cut and bloody from feeling around, messing with heat shields, I've tried tapping around while logging to see if I could intentionally induce a false knock as some have suggested. I've check all over and around cylinder 6 and anything else that was near the engine.

It does sound like you said. I could manipulate knock activity by tipping in under certain conditions. Namely high gears, low rpms, high ish boost. Tip in and roll into the throttle and knock city.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,231 Posts
I've always wondered if the wastegate or turbo right there near 6 have something to do with it.

But I'm not sure what to make of some of my tunes not really showing 6 as the main offender.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
It does sound like you said. I could manipulate knock activity by tipping in under certain conditions. Namely high gears, low rpms, high ish boost. Tip in and roll into the throttle and knock city.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk
Send me a log
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
I took a look at past logs on my GH tunes and some instances KR activity did register about .45 load like stock but it was negative. I’m think they just took a bit of initial spark advance out to calm the part throttle KR a bit.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,231 Posts
Send me a log
We're in the middle of moving into a new home. I'll have to spend some time looking through old emails to get them together, but I'd be glad to.

I'm under the impression that looking at logs while running somebody's tunes won't tell you all that much if you didn't write the tune and don't know what strings have been pulled?

I know KR, OAR, etc can all be manipulated greatly.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
We're in the middle of moving into a new home. I'll have to spend some time looking through old emails to get them together, but I'd be glad to.

I'm under the impression that looking at logs while running somebody's tunes won't tell you all that much if you didn't write the tune and don't know what strings have been pulled?

I know KR, OAR, etc can all be manipulated greatly.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk
It'll give info in regards to how the vehicle is performing in a nutshell to better diagnose it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,073 Posts
I took a look at past logs on my GH tunes and some instances KR activity did register about .45 load like stock but it was negative. I’m think they just took a bit of initial spark advance out to calm the part throttle KR a bit.
At least on my 2014 there is only one setting for the KR. It cannot change based on RPM/Load/etc.

The LOR looks to have different settings. Max Load is 1.5, min load is .45, Max RPM is 4000, Min RPM is 1200, Max ECT is 230F, Min ECT is 170F.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,803 Posts
At least on my 2014 there is only one setting for the KR. It cannot change based on RPM/Load/etc.

The LOR looks to have different settings. Max Load is 1.5, min load is .45, Max RPM is 4000, Min RPM is 1200, Max ECT is 230F, Min ECT is 170F.
I would raise the min rpm to 2,000. Most of the +KR I have experienced occurs below that rpm in light part-throttle. Above it, it is usually negative.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,073 Posts
I would raise the min rpm to 2,000. Most of the +KR I have experienced occurs below that rpm in light part-throttle. Above it, it is usually negative.
Thats not a horrific idea for those with the issue. The KR still works but you just set LOR to ignore KR until you are out of the RPM range where its a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
So I took some time and ran a couple tunes looking at part throttle KR. I’m not trying to nitpick tunes just observing. I have some tunes that get negative part throttle KR starting at just .30 LOAD. And some much later than that. But on my stock tune my part throttle KR is non existent. So it could be a strategy thing.
I’m thinking stock is just way too advanced under light load. Then again I can totally be wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
460 Posts
Still dealing with this. I've given up and just learnt to drive around it. Trading in soon anyways.

1. It's not fuel. I've tried everything in BC to Alberta to Seattle. Tuned and completly stock. Even tried a de-tuned "stock" file from Tori.

2. It's not LSPI. LSPI happens at low rpm high load. We are experiencing high KR at low rpm & low LOW load. With anything beyond cruising load KR drops.

Even had the dealership look at it. I was able to fully reproduce it with the service manager & their driveability tech with live view of KR values. They couldn't do anything.

The only thing I haven't tried is replacing the knock sensors. It's a manor pain in the ass to do. What really held me back was having to pull the injectors and replace the seals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Alright, I have started quite a few threads lately, but I have just found out how knowledgeable everyone on here is and I am full of issues/questions!

So throughout last summer I was having an issue where my logs would show as high as +7 knock but only when lightly accelerating (light or no boost at all). Also when cruising at a consistent speed anywhere for 60-80mph it would occur as well. It would never happen at WOT or even 3/4 throttle. It also does not happen every single time either so it seems quite inconsistent as well.

I have been through all of the threads on here back to 2013/14 or so and lots of other guys have had this issue, however not one thread posts any kind of resolution to the issue? Lots of suggestions are to just ignore it unless its happening at WOT. However! the big problem with this is, the positive knock reading absolutely kills my OAR - so when I do decide to floor it, the truck makes no power with OAR number usually sitting at Positive 0.80 or higher.

I have tried different gas over 6 months of driving and it occurred the exact same regardless of fuel grade or quality. Stock tune, Unleashed tune, Gearhead tune they all do it. The only slight bandaid fix was Torrie turned down the knock sensor sensitivity until I was only ever seeing +3 at most which helped the OAR a lot. Matt did not want to even begin tuning for the methanol until this was sorted which I can understand. The frustrating part is I have no idea how to sort it out!

My only guess as to what it could be would be the exhaust? somehow vibrating enough to trigger knock sensors - I have checked heat shields are solid and it is not contacting anything but the exhaust hangers. If it is the exhaust I am not sure how to go about correcting this then either!

Hopefully in the last 7+ years someone has found the resolution to this!!
One of the first things I did to my 2011 3.5 EcoBoost F150 was to open up the exhaust to 3.5" all the way through with a high flow muffler and got rid of he "resonator" behind the muffler. The next thing I did was to add a second transmission cooler to the "heavy duty" tow package. Finally, I got the firmware updated that improved the shift pattern. It is now the smoothest and best behaved vehicle I have ever had. I do do above recommended maintenance oil changes and transmission fluid changes, and have added a catch can as well, highly recommended (especially after you see all the gunk it keeps from recycling into the intake valve from the PCV system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,803 Posts
Still dealing with this. I've given up and just learnt to drive around it. Trading in soon anyways.

1. It's not fuel. I've tried everything in BC to Alberta to Seattle. Tuned and completly stock. Even tried a de-tuned "stock" file from Tori.

2. It's not LSPI. LSPI happens at low rpm high load. We are experiencing high KR at low rpm & low LOW load. With anything beyond cruising load KR drops.

Even had the dealership look at it. I was able to fully reproduce it with the service manager & their driveability tech with live view of KR values. They couldn't do anything.

The only thing I haven't tried is replacing the knock sensors. It's a manor pain in the ass to do. What really held me back was having to pull the injectors and replace the seals.
Hey @trev, I too have tried a wide variety of fuels including recently mixing my own M25. Both for all out performance, and to see if the higher octane would eliminate this low rpm/low load in low gears. It helped, but it didn't eliminate it.

I do get a LOT more negative KR all over the place when running M25. In fact, I max out the negative KR in WOT (indicating my tune needs to upgraded - pity my Livewire is now acting up). But in spite of all this, there STILL is some +KR in the low rpm/low load in lower gears that occur.

As the OAR is the culprit screwing with my tune, especially if I have to drive city traffic where it occurs most, I had great success in just LOCKING OUT the OAR and using the KR by itself. Actually easier to tune too, as when the OAR changes it affects that amount of Total Spark and effectively you KR. Truck is now very consistent in performance. No more "good days & bad days". Now, all good. Besides, I have had a number of vehicles in the past that had ECMs, Knock Sensor but no OAR, and I tuned those myself and never blew them up.

PS: Have you checked out the Co-op Station in Aldergrove that is now selling E85. Once I get my Livewire fixed, I plan to take trip there, put E85 in my tank to make an E30 mix, and take/fill 10 25L Gerry Cans of E85 back home (where there is no E85 available). I figure with 10 25L Gerry Cans, it should last me a couple of months. I regularly go to the Lower Mainland every couple months, so this could work. The E85 Station in Sapperton was just too far, even if I am in Abbotsford for a few days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,803 Posts
One of the first things I did to my 2011 3.5 EcoBoost F150 was to open up the exhaust to 3.5" all the way through with a high flow muffler and got rid of he "resonator" behind the muffler. The next thing I did was to add a second transmission cooler to the "heavy duty" tow package. Finally, I got the firmware updated that improved the shift pattern. It is now the smoothest and best behaved vehicle I have ever had. I do do above recommended maintenance oil changes and transmission fluid changes, and have added a catch can as well, highly recommended (especially after you see all the gunk it keeps from recycling into the intake valve from the PCV system.
Have you considered an aftermarket Intercooler/CAC? I found that not only keeps my truck running more consistently, but I could feel the top-end improvement when passing Semis on a 2 Lane Highway. Also, for towing, it helps reduce heat soak that you can get when climbing a long grade while towing or fully loaded.
 
41 - 60 of 72 Posts
Top