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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Confused by others' confusion.

I should preface with, "Sorry for the book, but I am either way off or there are a ot or wackadoodles out there. Now, to my story"....Combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed #### is your vehicle's MAX payload. Not the online brochure, not the generic spec sheet or build your own for the 5.5 Supercrew with 3.73 or any other configuration that doesn't take into account the added features of your particular vehicle - Lariat, FX4, Platinum, etc and not what a random poster tells you what YOUR vehicle's payload is (especially). Also, Max towing is not the same as HD payload as many posters have indicated. It boils down to that single number inside your driver's side door. Right? The more I read through these posts for answers and see calculators, oddball comments with wild guesses, homemade remedies, etc the more I question my own logic. Which I thought was sound.

Example (using my specs):

"Combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed" is 1659

People, pets, purse, backpack, water bottles, doodads and stuff in the truck 500 (haha, little white lies)

Fifth wheel hitch 150+

Wood blocks, gallon of water, full ice chest, misc stuff tossed in bed 75 - 100

Hitch weight 1700 (on my desired RV until recently)

Clothes and anything thrown into 5'er bedroom 50+ (don't forget things stored under the bed!)

I am 816 pounds OVER payload capacity already and I can assure you I under-packed above. No amount of springs/airbags/tougher tires/dieting will assist. So to read that others with the 5.5 or even 6.5 beds (non HD payload) are towing hitch weights of 1500 to 1700, I am scratching my head wondering how and WHY? It sounds rhetorical, but I really am asking. The RV salesman pulls out a towing guide and points to the 11,300 if properly equipped on the spec sheet and says we will be fine with 9890 dry weight and a 1700 kingpin. Uh, yeah no. There was no mention of payload (by him) and the focus was just that magic 11,300 number. I am no mathematician but.... So I start my research project online and wonder if this many people really tow so unsafely or I am missing something.

We currently pull with our 2014 Supercrew 5.5, 3.73, Max tow pkg (no HD payload offered on that 145 wheel base as far as I could tell with Ford literature) our 33 foot TT around 8000 loaded and a bunch of stuff in the bed....typical bikes, ice chests, extra chairs, dog cage, any last minute stuff I tell my husband to toss in and the Ecoboost leaves me wondering if we forgot to hitch it up because it pulls so fantastic. We do use a weight DH and that is great, no sag and we just look sharp going down the road (insert smug here). But we wanted a fifth wheel and went so far as to hand over a deposit at an RV show recently based on "some" research, other peoples' combos with their EBs and heat exhaustion. But those numbers, once I began plucking brochures and seeing how much weight was at the hitch, just didn't add up. Not with that single number lingering in the driver's side door.

Any thoughts or should I check myself in? I have tried to convince myself I was wrong so I can have that outdoor kitchen..... Maybe blissful ignorance like so many others would be the right choice. :confused:

Thanks,

angie
 

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I haven't towed anything yet, but I bought my '12 FX4 EB Screw 5.5 bed with max tow package (no HD) recently and looking to purchase a camper in the next 2 yrs. All the research I have done...you are right payload = everything added to the truck. I'm not sure about a fifth wheel but for me my truck says 1700 payload. that's anyone in the truck, anything in the bed and the hitch weight of a travel trailer. The ones I am looking at are around 450lbs dry for a 27ft trailer. I went on a few RV forums to find out. Although I haven't found anyone who is towing a 5th wheel with a 150, most guys are doing that with a 250 or 350. The travel trailers I'm looking at with such a light hitch weight are actually in the light weight class of travel trailers.
 

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Good evening Angie. Check yourself in....lol.
In my opinion there's no way your truck can handle that 5er. You say your truck has a 1659 payload capacity & you say the pin weight of the 5er your looking at is 1700#'s... That puts you over before you even add any other bodies, cargo or even a hitch to the truck. Best thing for you to do is load every thing in the truck that your gonna travel with and take it & weigh it then add 150-200#'s for the hitch. That will tell you what will be left for a pin weight. You don't say what your GVWR is but guessing it's 7700#'s. Also you have to be concerned about the RAWR.
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The often confusing sticker that you reference is Ford's answer to the problem they had with Firestone and the Explorer years ago. If you chose a higher rated set of tires, you could in all likely hood reach your vehicles actual GVWR or either GAWR. The vehicle is rated to the GVWR. Each axle (and all it's associated suspension) is rated to it's GAWR. E rated tires could give you some extra breathing room, but 816 over is a stretch. IMO you would need some serious suspension modifications or add-ons, but the best advice would be find a more lightweight 5er.
 

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I haven't towed anything yet, but I bought my '12 FX4 EB Screw 5.5 bed with max tow package (no HD) recently and looking to purchase a camper in the next 2 yrs. All the research I have done...you are right payload = everything added to the truck. I'm not sure about a fifth wheel but for me my truck says 1700 payload. that's anyone in the truck, anything in the bed and the hitch weight of a travel trailer. The ones I am looking at are around 450lbs dry for a 27ft trailer. I went on a few RV forums to find out. Although I haven't found anyone who is towing a 5th wheel with a 150, most guys are doing that with a 250 or 350. The travel trailers I'm looking at with such a light hitch weight are actually in the light weight class of travel trailers.
There are a lot of people towing fifth wheels with F150's. I see one at just about every campsite I go to. Whether they are within the stated limits or have upgraded components is another story. There are many pics on here http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/17-f150-ecoboost-towing/8-pics-your-f150-eb-towing-69.html

There are some really light trailers out there, but don't believe what any dealer tells you. CAT scales are your friend.


There are also quite a few that did tow 5ers with an F150 that have since moved on to more appropriate TVs. Not everyone changes their mind, though.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I get it I really do. I couldn't believe so many posts... "1700 pin and 10k dry...Eco boost...max tow....added airbags". Heck even the airbags weigh something. I became obsessed with finding people overloading in hopes I had it all wrong...hey! Chink....and the cuffs are on. I guess I won't be forming the Secret Society of Payload Busters anytime soon.
 

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I think you can still find some lighter rig that would fit better.

I love this companies advertising. Notice the Non-Max Tow that they have this "hooked up" to.
Open-Range-The Light.jpg


Landing gear down, though.
 

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It's not prudent to exceed your rated payload, though many people do. Note that trailer companies and salespeople are often quite adept at lying to make sales. I see you've noted the paradox of trucks being rated to haul weights that will cause an excessive payload; the relationship between the weight a truck can <pull> and the weight a truck can <carry> eludes many.
 

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It's not prudent to exceed your rated payload, though many people do. Note that trailer companies and salespeople are often quite adept at lying to make sales. I see you've noted the paradox of trucks being rated to haul weights that will cause an excessive payload; the relationship between the weight a truck can <pull> and the weight a truck can <carry> eludes many.
True, but the "rated payload" (sticker) that most acknowledge is really a falsehood to keep Ford from being sued as happened in the past.(even though Ford marketing says it wasn't for that) The sticker in particular is dependent upon the P stock tires for which it was conceived.

There is also the problem of dealer and owner added optional and aftermarket equipment that is never going to show on that sticker. The real "rated payload" is the remainder of the calculated GVWR - the actual vehicle weight (and in keeping with both GAWR).

The tow capability does not really cause an overage of payload, but the design of most trailers does make it seem that way.
 

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True, but the "rated payload" (sticker) that most acknowledge is really a falsehood to keep Ford from being sued as happened in the past.(even though Ford marketing says it wasn't for that)
Not a falsehood but a rating, and a sensible decision from a safety standpoint. The rigging equipment I used in my trade-- the chokers, shackles, hooks, tuggers, chain falls, come-alongs etc.-was rated with a safety factor of 2, but you NEVER exceeded the rating, otherwise the safety factor wouldn't be a...safety factor. If Ford rated the payload at the actual point at which the vehicle would break down you can bet people would blithely overload THAT rating, just as they overload the current one.

Besides, if having decided the Ford rating is inaccurate on what basis does one then determine what is accurate? How would you define payload capacity (the point at which the suspension bottoms, the point at which handling and braking suffer to a certain extent, the point at which the truck breaks down, or what?) and how would you determine when your defined point was reached?
 

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Not a falsehood but a rating, and a sensible decision from a safety standpoint. The rigging equipment I used in my trade-- the chokers, shackles, hooks, tuggers, chain falls, come-alongs etc.-was rated with a safety factor of 2, but you NEVER exceeded the rating, otherwise the safety factor wouldn't be a...safety factor. If Ford rated the payload at the actual point at which the vehicle would break down you can bet people would blithely overload THAT rating, just as they overload the current one.

Besides, if having decided the Ford rating is inaccurate on what basis does one then determine what is accurate? How would you define payload capacity (the point at which the suspension bottoms, the point at which handling and braking suffer to a certain extent, the point at which the truck breaks down, or what?) and how would you determine when your defined point was reached?
On the basis of GVWR and GAWR like every other type of vehicle out there. Those ratings (in theory) already take the fudge factors into account. The "Tire and Loading Information" sticker was merely an attempt to make it easier for owners, but it is misleading due to the reasons I mentioned earlier. Prior to this sticker, Ford expected everyone to know the unloaded weight of their vehicles. That is still the only way to know as the sticker isn't accurate. Ford didn't provide this sticker from a "safety standpoint", but the they did do it from a lawsuit standpoint. It is in no way a legally binding limit with the exception of you bringing a lawsuit against Ford and the stock tire maker.

Now, the calculation Ford uses for GVWR is another story entirely . . .
 

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The tow capability does not really cause an overage of payload, but the design of most trailers does make it seem that way.
I disagree. My truck has a towing capacity of 9600 pounds and a payload of 1317 pounds. A 9600 pound travel trailer, going by 13% tongue weight, is putting 1248 pounds of load onto the truck, not even enough payload left over for a load distributing hitch (or a driver) and the factory hitch itself is rated for only 1130 pounds tongue weight, when used with a weight distributing hitch. A 9600 pound 5th wheeler, with 20% pin weight, is putting a 1920 pound load onto the truck. These figures doesn't merely <seem> overloaded, they <are> overloaded, by Ford's criteria.
 

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On the basis of GVWR and GAWR like every other type of vehicle out there. Those ratings (in theory) already take the fudge factors into account.

Now, the calculation Ford uses for GVWR is another story entirely . . .
Yes, I looked into those as well. My truck has a GVWR of 7200 pounds which I suspect is pretty close to the weight of my truck (an XLT crewcab with the 36 gallon tank and off road package) and it's rated payload. Combined GAWR runs it up to 7600 pounds. I intend to weigh the truck with no cargo and a full gas tank.
 

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I disagree. My truck has a towing capacity of 9600 pounds and a payload of 1317 pounds. A 9600 pound travel trailer, going by 13% tongue weight, is putting 1248 pounds of load onto the truck, not even enough payload left over for a load distributing hitch (or a driver) and the factory hitch itself is rated for only 1130 pounds tongue weight, when used with a weight distributing hitch. A 9600 pound 5th wheeler, with 20% pin weight, is putting a 1920 pound load onto the truck. These figures doesn't merely <seem> overloaded, they <are> overloaded, by Ford's criteria.
Yes, it is a little nit picking, but . . . Again, that is because of the normal trailer design, not the tow capability. Pulling a normal trailer caused you to do that calculation. Think about the trailer tag alongs that FedEx and UPS use on the Interstate. They don't add payload, they add towing weight. Or just think of the stupid Yota commercial towing the shuttle. Your truck can pull it, but your "trailer" design adds tongue weight by levering over the axles to the tongue.


IIRC reading, they use some low slung sled looking trailer with a centered pallet sized weight to evaluate the tow ratings.
 

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Yes, I looked into those as well. My truck has a GVWR of 7200 pounds which I suspect is pretty close to the weight of my truck (an XLT crewcab with the 36 gallon tank and off road package) and it's rated payload. Combined GAWR runs it up to 7600 pounds. I intend to weigh the truck with no cargo and a full gas tank.
I would guestimate 5800 for your truck with a full tank. Mine (fully loaded FX4) was 6070 and is now 6180 after owner installed aftermarket items.

My GVWR is 7200, but my combined GAWR = 7800. That is a LOT of fudge.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You guys are throwing out all these weighted figures... but at the end of the day (excuse my simplicity) aren't you worried about the fact that you have maxed out and in most cases here, exceeded the payload? At what point does your trailer OWN YOU. I want to stay within safety limits. I don't want my 5'er to send me over the mountain side. I love my Eco...but I fear that maxing out the payload is dangerous and could result in a family of 3 plus guests taking a turn for the worst. And before any smart ass suggests....I am not prepared to buy an F250. Just looking for justification. Why load more than the posted payload?? You dare devils. :cool:
 

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This may help HowStuffWorks "Calculating Payload Capacity"

luvssg: one thing I've learned from this forum is that common sense and safety are often overlooked for bragging rights.
Just because a manufacturer says my vehicle can tow X amount doesn't mean it's smart to do so. Manufacturers for years have been over rating tow vehicles because it helps them sell them.
In the end a little common sense goes a long way.
 

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You guys are throwing out all these weighted figures... but at the end of the day (excuse my simplicity) aren't you worried about the fact that you have maxed out and in most cases here, exceeded the payload? At what point does your trailer OWN YOU. I want to stay within safety limits. I don't want my 5'er to send me over the mountain side. I love my Eco...but I fear that maxing out the payload is dangerous and could result in a family of 3 plus guests taking a turn for the worst. And before any smart ass suggests....I am not prepared to buy an F250. Just looking for justification. Why load more than the posted payload?? You dare devils. :cool:
There is a point where you don't want to be pulling (or loaded) with any truck. The question is do the manufacturer's ratings actually reflect that point? In my case, I am not over any one of the limits of my truck with my trailer. I have when bringing stuff home from Home Depot, but not towing. The "posted payload" isn't an accurate or common rating. "Tire and Loading Information" is not a common rating. It includes a LOT of risk aversion and mitigation. GVWR is a common rating. GAWR is a common rating.
 

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This may help HowStuffWorks "Calculating Payload Capacity"

luvssg: one thing I've learned from this forum is that common sense and safety are often overlooked for bragging rights.
Just because a manufacturer says my vehicle can tow X amount doesn't mean it's smart to do so. Manufacturers for years have been over rating tow vehicles because it helps them sell them.
In the end a little common sense goes a long way.
The only problem with that article is on page two. It says "A vehicle's GVWR is calculated by its manufacturer", which is a problem beyond the sticker that people are considering the "payload" sticker. While towing ratings are probably still inflated (even with the new standard), the GVWR is still up to the maker. Some are over rated. Some are under rated. GVWR should be very near the combination of GAWRs, but it doesn't add up with Ford's calculation.

And of course, there are limits for everything. The manufacturer's are only interested in making money and not getting sued for the money they made.
 
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