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Discussion Starter #1
Hello! Thanks in advance for any input you have, this is going to be a long post!

I have a 2012 ecoboost Screw with the 5.5 bed. 133k miles, I have had it for the past 3 years
It has had the start up rattle for about a year so I expected to have to do the timing chain replacement eventually, ideally in the summer, but unfortunately I ended up doing it in the middle of Canadian winter.

I got code P0016 for camshaft position sensor, no performance issues, so I continued driving undaunted, hoping it would be ok till it was warmer.

3 weeks later I got in the truck one morning and started it, it coughed up black smoke, and would jump around at idle between 500-1500 rpms. I drove, more like stuttered around the block and parked it again, and it died while idling once. The whole engine seemed to be shaking the truck.
I got codes
P0017
P0018
P0019
P0365
P0369
P0390
P0394
These are all cam/crankshaft position codes. Stangely none is for a misfire.

I figured the chain had been stretching and now it had jumped a tooth. Using the forums here and Ford Tech makulocos youtube videos I ordered parts from Rockauto and my local dealership.

I bought a garage tent and ran a heater to it and tore into the repair over the course of 2 weeks.
What I replaced:

Main and secondary chains
All chain guides
All tensioners
Camshaft sprocket
Oil Pump (melling 390hv high volume)
Water pump
All phasers
All VCT solenoids
Harmonic balancer
Both belts and tensioner
Spark plugs and boots
Passenger valve cover (I cracked it replacing the vct solenoid seals)
HPFP O ring
PVC valve (with black one)
and all the gaskets i came across as well as O rings

I found the old chain was off 4 teeth! Also about 3/4" of stretch. I though maybe I jumped it while trying to loosen the crankshaft bolt, because it slipped and I turned it counter clockwise several times.
The main tensioner was maxed out. I dropped a tool into the oil pan area, and while fishing for it with a magnet I pulled out the two halves of the little retainer clip that goes on the tensioner. (also got the tool out, it was part of a ratcheting 8mm wrench)

Put everything back together with fresh oil and coolant, turned the engine over with the ignition disabled until I built oil pressure.

Now it runs, but it feels much the same as before. The engine shakes and idle stumbles. Also I can hear loud tapping/knocking which I believed could be the lifters lacking oil. I tried a tehcnique where you rev up to 3k for two minutes with no change. I listened to the motor with a stethescope and the sound seems to come from the HPFP, maybe normal because the covers are all off.

Shortly after startup I got code P0302 for cylinder 2 misfire. I drove around the block and got P2196 and P2198 ( rich condition exhaust O2 sensors on both sides). I swapped plugs and coils on that cylinder to no avail.

My greatest fear is bent valves, from the first day I started it up and possibly had jumped 4 teeth. After the repair the motor was much easier to turn over by hand.

I will do a compression test tomorrow. But if only cylinder 2 is misfiring I wonder why both banks are rich, and plan to replace the purge valve.

I also installed a mishimoto dual catch can.

If you are still reading thanks for sticking though. I appreciate any advice, I took lots of pics and videos if that helps let me know I will post.
 

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While you are troubleshooting, I would eliminate any aftermarket changes you made, like the catch-can. It can introduce its own variables into the equation.

Fingers crossed for you though.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks snakebitten, I am holding the old PCV hoses in my hand about to put them back on! Good advice!
 

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I only suggested that because I've seen plenty of threads describing rough running and various other performance issues as a result of a catch can install.

I'm trying to be optimistic and assume you do NOT have an injured motor. (bent valve, for example) But rather something else that can hopefully be pinpointed with process of elimination.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
 

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I was gunna say, bent valve if the chain jumped.

Can you pull the tube from the throttle body and check air flow? If the intake vavles are bent then you might feel air coming back out the throttle body. This was a tell tale sign on my former jeep Liberty that there was a valve failure.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I had time to quickly check compression on cylinders 2 and 3 last night, but with a cold engine. I got absolutely no readings on cyl 2 and about 100 on cylinder 3. So I am sticking my head in the sand , hoping the results were off and ordered a new compression tester.

I wanted to try number one cylinder but the (new) boot was already stuck to the (new) plug and I wrecked it trying to get it out. So I will replace that and try compression again tomorrow with the new tester and warm engine.

I spoke to the mechanics at work today and they say a bent intake valve would keep it open and cause fuel to get back into the intake, causing the rich code on both sides.

This would add up because when I checked valve clearance the number 2 intake clearance at tdc was more than my biggest feeler guage, way out of spec.

My valves are dirty as well so I am thinking of walnut blasting, is it possible carbon can cause valves not to seat? I know I am reaching, this is because I am in denial and don't want to do a valve job right now.

Here is the culprit
thumbnail_20201221_105814.jpg

 

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I had time to quickly check compression on cylinders 2 and 3 last night, but with a cold engine. I got absolutely no readings on cyl 2 and about 100 on cylinder 3. So I am sticking my head in the sand , hoping the results were off and ordered a new compression tester.

I wanted to try number one cylinder but the (new) boot was already stuck to the (new) plug and I wrecked it trying to get it out. So I will replace that and try compression again tomorrow with the new tester and warm engine.

I spoke to the mechanics at work today and they say a bent intake valve would keep it open and cause fuel to get back into the intake, causing the rich code on both sides.

This would add up because when I checked valve clearance the number 2 intake clearance at tdc was more than my biggest feeler guage, way out of spec.

My valves are dirty as well so I am thinking of walnut blasting, is it possible carbon can cause valves not to seat? I know I am reaching, this is because I am in denial and don't want to do a valve job right now.

Here is the culprit
View attachment 170093
Well, the good news is a cylinder head can be ordered preassembled!
The bad news, it's probably going to need to pull the head to fix/replace of that valve is bent. Although different architecture, I had a SBC break a chain and drop a valve. IIRC it needed to have the guide machined back to normal. I would have put a new one on if it wasn't already new...that's what happens when 17yr old me builds engines.
 

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Well, the good news is a cylinder head can be ordered preassembled!
The bad news, it's probably going to need to pull the head to fix/replace of that valve is bent. Although different architecture, I had a SBC break a chain and drop a valve. IIRC it needed to have the guide machined back to normal. I would have put a new one on if it wasn't already new...that's what happens when 17yr old me builds engines.
For a cool $1000. At least its not $1750 for a remanufactured head on my Liberty CRD.
 

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I wonder what the condition of the piston is if it hit the valve? You may want to pull that head regardless just for peace of mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
IMG_006.JPG


170100


Here is what the piston looks like down the spark plug hole.

I confirmed today cylinders 2 and 4 have zero compression. All others are at 125ish

I am finding out not many machine shops around me have recondition heads anymore, if anyone has recommendations in Southern Ontario, Canada I am all ears.

Yeah no kidding. Or a new truck.
I could go that route, but where is the fun in that! I am 25 and have enough disposable income plus free time. The way I see it, there won't be many combustion engines to work on in the future anyways.
Also I am saving up for a house, I believe I'm still coming in under a shop timing chain repair cost, and theres a lot of costs and taxes that are to be had with a new truck.

Thanks for your replies
 

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View attachment 170099

View attachment 170100

Here is what the piston looks like down the spark plug hole.

I confirmed today cylinders 2 and 4 have zero compression. All others are at 125ish

I am finding out not many machine shops around me have recondition heads anymore, if anyone has recommendations in Southern Ontario, Canada I am all ears.



I could go that route, but where is the fun in that! I am 25 and have enough disposable income plus free time. The way I see it, there won't be many combustion engines to work on in the future anyways.
Also I am saving up for a house, I believe I'm still coming in under a shop timing chain repair cost, and theres a lot of costs and taxes that are to be had with a new truck.

Thanks for your replies
Yeah. I did that with my Jeep Liberty CRD last winter. Had a piston strike 2 exhaust valves and snap the rockers. My exhaust cam had skipped time on the belt. So what did I do? Put on a like new head, full set of new rockers and a brand new timing belt set.

When I buttoned it back up and tried to crank it the first time it sent a rod through the side of the block. Turned out I misdiagnosed the issue. I thought the timing belt had skipped and caused the valves to hit the piston but it was the opposite. Although I never opened the bottom end to look, what I think probably happened was a rod bearing failed or rod bolts had loosened or stretched and the piston was kinda flopping around in the cylinder. The piston came up too fast since it wasnt constrained to the crank anymore and caught the exhaust valves before they closed. This caused the cam to jam up and skip time while also breaking the rockers.

I then parted it out and bought a Lexus GX :ROFLMAO: I actually made a suprising amount of money parting it, probably more than I would have selling it complete in running order.
 
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View attachment 170099

View attachment 170100

Here is what the piston looks like down the spark plug hole.

I confirmed today cylinders 2 and 4 have zero compression. All others are at 125ish

I am finding out not many machine shops around me have recondition heads anymore, if anyone has recommendations in Southern Ontario, Canada I am all ears.



I could go that route, but where is the fun in that! I am 25 and have enough disposable income plus free time. The way I see it, there won't be many combustion engines to work on in the future anyways.
Also I am saving up for a house, I believe I'm still coming in under a shop timing chain repair cost, and theres a lot of costs and taxes that are to be had with a new truck.

Thanks for your replies
Kiss of death!!
 

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Yeah no kidding. Or a new truck.
I was at my dealer last week, (2011 3.5 Platinum with 140k, also w water pump leak, broken windshield and near dead battery) talking abt timing chain slap and svc advisor said they don't replace timing chains any longer on the 3.5 since they've had a high number of "catastrophic oil related engine failures" after the repair. They would however sell me a new engine or a new truck. There was a new 2020 Ltd w 3.5 HO AND a lifetime warranty on engine and drive train. I bit.
 

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I was at my dealer last week, (2011 3.5 Platinum with 140k, also w water pump leak, broken windshield and near dead battery) talking abt timing chain slap and svc advisor said they don't replace timing chains any longer on the 3.5 since they've had a high number of "catastrophic oil related engine failures" after the repair. They would however sell me a new engine or a new truck. There was a new 2020 Ltd w 3.5 HO AND a lifetime warranty on engine and drive train. I bit.
You don't have to reveal the costs, how much more was the engine and lifetime warranty vs just replacing the timing chain stuff? That does sound like a good deal, especially if you plan on keeping the truck long-term.
 

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You don't have to reveal the costs, how much more was the engine and lifetime warranty vs just replacing the timing chain stuff? That does sound like a good deal, especially if you plan on keeping the truck long-term.
There was no discrete fee for the warranty, other than margin built into the truck, and it's not offered on all models apparently. Water pump was 1,800 estimated, but the engine replacement was $8-10k from dealer. Nada value was $14k trade and 19K dealer retail for my truck. With other incentives, the 2020 truck was about $50.5k with my 2011 in trade, not including $5k in taxes and fees that I paid. Sticker was $74k+. Unlike many of you, I don't have resources or skills to replace an engine myself. Absent the warranty, may not have done this as I tend to buy and hold.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Here is an update on the tear down.

The second time taking things apart, I did in one day what previously took me four!

My timing was still right on so I am happy about that. I also did an air test shooting air into both dead cylinders while at TDC, and I had air coming out the intake on both, much worse on #2 that was showing the misfire code.

Today I spent about 6 hours removing the 4 nuts that attach the cats to the turbo exhaust. They were holding tight. I had nightmares of breaking a stud so I quickly moved to repeated heat/cooling with MAP gas and cold water. Eventually they all broke loose with no issues. Access is a real problem, the left side gave me enough room for one single click of the ratchet, only with a 3/8" ratchet. The upper driver side nut also was very difficult to reach, I had to heat it, put the socket on, then slide further under the truck and wrench it off blind.

In November I had it undercoated at a new place, for those down south that is getting the underside oil sprayed to prevent rust from the salt. This guy used a thick black tar like oil that sticks on about 3/16" thick and makes an incredible mess whenever I touch it.

Ordered a larger torx bit set to get the turbos off and have been spraying all the exhaust nuts I can reach with pb blaster. My HVAC friend suggested buying an acetylene B tank like plumbers use to make faster work of heating nuts, I think my carpentry company happens to need one of those so I'm going to see if I can find one.

Stay tuned for progress!


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