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Discussion Starter #1
I apologize if this has been brought up before, but I haven't been able to find anything on ANY forum about it.

This all started when my buddy picked up a '19 Raptor last week. He let me take it for a spin the day after getting it home, as I've never driven one, Gen 1 or 2. I had a tuned and lifted '11 F150 that was a rocket ship for its time (400whp 500wtq on light metric 35s), and my current '20 Lariat with the gen 2 3.5 is miles ahead of the '11 in every single aspect.

I was blown away at how the Raptor drove. So much so that I am still convinced it may be tuned. It felt like the same all around improvement over my truck as my '20 was over my '11.

The transmission was more responsive to gear changes requested by the paddle shifters and even felt like it had way more line pressure than my truck in sport mode. Gear changes were solid, no slippery or rubbery feeling between the 1-3-5 shifts to be found.

Apparently there was a big update to the TCM in the raptors for '19, which his truck is, and I am just dumbfounded as to why Ford didn't extend the olive branch to us 150 folk. My truck would have paddle shifters installed yesterday if the trans had the same characteristics as that truck.

I apologize for the rambling, but I do have a point, or a question really. I understand the differences between the 3.5 HO and 3.5 well, but this does not seem like a power on tap thing. This feels like an entirely different transmission. Has anyone looked into trying to flash the Raptor TCM strategy onto these gen 2 3.5 10 speed trucks? Does the limited with the same power train drive similarly to the 19+ Raptor? Is a tuned truck going to respond more quickly to gear selections made at the console shifter?

If anyone has any insight I would welcome it. I did not think there was that much difference between 10 speeds in the 150 and Raptor.
 

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I mean, I am sure you could, however, the raptor has some other fancy features, like anti-lag, that may not be able to carry over. I doubt you could just flash the Raptor trans update and would probably require someone to copy/paste over the relevant settings and make a custom tune. At that point you might as well just get an aftermarket tune that is even better than the stock raptor tune.

And no, I don't think there is any physical difference between the transmissions, its all in the tuning.

As far as power, a non-HO 3.5 will make nearly the same power as an HO 3.5 if you are running 93 in both. The Raptor power ratings are delivered on 93 octane while the non-HO power ratings are on 87. Combine that with the fact that a regular F150 is smaller and lighter, and has lighter wheels and tires, and you are likely as fast and putting just as much power to the wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I absolutely think my truck is quicker to 60 than his, which is just the nature of less rotating mass and a lighter overall weight. I'm just dumb founded at how the trans behaves is all. If I can get mine to shift like that with either COBB TCM tuning or some other tuner, I don't think I'd ever buy a different truck.

I was just curious from a tuning perspective if any tuners had really dove into Ford's OEM 19+ Raptor calibration, as it seems to be an absolute winner in my go fast opinion.

And as a disclaimer guys, I use the truck for work for now, but at 60k miles it is getting a tune and the suspension is being torn apart in favor of cheap mid travel (Raptor LCA, axles, etc. and upgraded everything else).
 

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Certain strategy’s tend to behave differently on the raptors. I recently had my raptor reflashed and the trans tuning was hugely improved. Yet my friend (same truck and strategy) complained how his shifted awful. Relearn and everything done.

If I remember correctly it’s mainly the torque reduction. Because raptors aren’t designed to tow, they can get away with removing some torque management and firming up the shifts. While f150s designed for heavy loads, need a calibration that will fit the average consumer while creating a reliable power train. Especially with so much load.

Then again I can totally be wrong....
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That is a fair point. More purpose built means more room to play for software engineers creating the engine management profiles. At least I assume its software guys, I don't know.
 

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HOWEVER, I do know BK messed around with deriving the Torque MGMT from the raptors and mustangs. I asked him not too long ago about the preloaded tunes he whipped up for 17+.

"""Torque management is certaily adjusted. In regards to the trans, if we are talking about 2017+ vehicles, the torque management is derived from other vehicles with the same transmission.

For example, torque allowed during shift is copied from a Mustang (Drag mode) and the Raptor (sport mode). So in my opinion, they are still within the levels that the Ford engineers designed the vehicle to work at. Both having the 10R80. """"
 

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I have a '20 Lariat and installed a Raptor wheel, before tuning, mainly because I wanted the paddle shifters. I hoped that tuning the truck would have improved the shifting response more than stock. I got multiple tunes from BCB and 5* but unfortunately the shifting is unchanged. I'm disappointed top say the least. Now after hearing you describe the responsiveness of the Raptor's trans I'm extremely jealous. There has to be a way to make this happen for us 150 guys.
 

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I have a '20 Lariat and installed a Raptor wheel, before tuning, mainly because I wanted the paddle shifters. I hoped that tuning the truck would have improved the shifting response more than stock. I got multiple tunes from BCB and 5* but unfortunately the shifting is unchanged. I'm disappointed top say the least. Now after hearing you describe the responsiveness of the Raptor's trans I'm extremely jealous. There has to be a way to make this happen for us 150 guys.
Are you using HPTuners or SCT?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have a '20 Lariat and installed a Raptor wheel, before tuning, mainly because I wanted the paddle shifters. I hoped that tuning the truck would have improved the shifting response more than stock. I got multiple tunes from BCB and 5* but unfortunately the shifting is unchanged. I'm disappointed top say the least. Now after hearing you describe the responsiveness of the Raptor's trans I'm extremely jealous. There has to be a way to make this happen for us 150 guys.
That's what I'm really worried about honestly. I hope someone explores this, it has to be the same trans with some tuning, and I hope they can make it shift as quickly as the Raptors. I don't see why they shouldn’t be able to. If not, I might have to go a different route with the truck.
 

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The regular trucks have only one transmission profile active,

the raptors use both alt1 and alt2 solenoid profiles which are much more aggressive. alt2 is used for baha mode and alt1 is used for paddle shift as well as sport mode.

There's major major differences in how they've configured ramp times, and oncoming and offgoing solenoid torque per second configurations in those alternate modes. It isn't tuned, it's like that from the factory though. Reviewing the raptors transmission configuration is a really good way to learn how to properly tune a 10r80 for an ecoboost though.
 

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Thanks for that info! I love and appreciate the knowledge folks have on these boards. Since the Raptor trans is like that from the factory (not tuned), are there specific parts that can be swapped to make a standard F150 shift like a Raptor? If so I'd love to see one of the vendors here put together a retrofit kit (hint, hint)? For me, the alt1 profile would be all I need. I think if I had baja mode I'd break stuff just because I can.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That makes a lot of sense w00t962. I would also be interested in further understanding how these solenoids control trans behaviors in all aspects of driving. Would tuners or a performance shop be able to develop a "shift kit" of sorts? eodlarry is spot on, I would love an alt 1 profile to get that more responsive shift while using paddles/the console selector.
 
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If you have hptuners pull stock tunes from both trucks and see what they are doing for pressure shift times etc with the raptor. With my supercharged Pontiac G8 using oncoming pressures from ctsv combined with faster shifts times and tweaks to the torque management greatly improved shift feel and firmness
 

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Am I wrong in thinking this is more of a software vs. hardware issue? Or is it a combination of both? If someone that actually knew what they were doing (not me) had access to stock files from both trucks, could it really be a copy/paste operation? I have to be way over simplifying this? Unfortunately I don't have hptuners, access to a stock Raptor file, or the necessary skills to pull it off. As a consumer, I would definitely be buying that tune or "shift Kit" if it were available!
 

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Am I wrong in thinking this is more of a software vs. hardware issue? Or is it a combination of both? If someone that actually knew what they were doing (not me) had access to stock files from both trucks, could it really be a copy/paste operation? I have to be way over simplifying this? Unfortunately I don't have hptuners, access to a stock Raptor file, or the necessary skills to pull it off. As a consumer, I would definitely be buying that tune or "shift Kit" if it were available!
I honestly think it all revolves around the requested tq tables oncoming pressures shift times etc but my trans tuning experience has been all gm 6l80 which could be made to shift crazy fast and hard if u wanted it
 

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GearHead has SHO Taurus, Raptor, F150 Ecoboost.... all as staff vehicles. @mattr66 has to have knowledge of the tuning differences between the 2 different 10r80 applications.

(this is my less than sneaky attempt to lure him out)

Even if my fishing technique fails, I'm paying pretty close attention to this thread because I actually appreciate the GearHead transmission tuning even more than the power increase tuning. Or put another way, as much as I love my truck, compared to OEM my favorite improvements are:

In order of priority

1. Pilot seat pampering (cabin entertainment)
2. Handling prowess.
3. Transmission logic. (I LOVE the GH improvement)
4. Power curve (Refined but always plenty on tap)

If the Raptor really does have a substantially more appealing strategy, and it's transferable to a non Raptor, I'd be happy to Guinea Pig (development mule) and throw on some paddles.



Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
 

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Gearhead does make changes to the shifting strategy at part throttle. I spent a lot of time on it and even borrowed some tips from the expedition that has a superior shifting strategy from the factory IMO.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 

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Isn't the 3.5 HO in the Expedtion ?
 

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Now I wonder how closely the Raptor Alt1/Sport Mode setting compares to the GH shifting strategy? Maybe @BC119 can try it out and see how it compares? If I had the opportunity to drive the Raptor for comparison, I'd order a GH tune right now. Might do it anyway after reading the posts from @mattr66 and @snakebitten.
 
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