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But it's N/A, isn't it? Our turbos are a big part of the heat equation.
And because they bent over for the EPA and put in electric fans.

The Lexus has a big old mechanical fan and you can hear it come online even over the V8 churning away at 4100 rpm
 

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Anyone consider Methanol Injection for towing? I have been reading about the benefits of using it as another measure to reduce engine temps under load. Not looking for any MPG or HP gains, just using methanol injection with the stock tune simply to lower IAT further.
 

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Anyone consider Methanol Injection for towing? I have been reading about the benefits of using it as another measure to reduce engine temps under load. Not looking for any MPG or HP gains, just using methanol injection with the stock tune simply to lower IAT further.
I think it's been discussed, but the primary worries are needing lots of juice when you're towing and running out/having a meth system failure while on a long pull, resulting in things going boom.
 

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So it's my understanding that unless you tune for it, there is no dependency on the methanol to just run the motor on regular pump gas. My thought is to have the methanol ready, then when ambient temps hit their high around noon-3 pm and I am peaking out on heat soak, I could flip it on for the next tank of gas. Can't you just turn it on and off when you want to use it if you're running stock tune? or even a plain jane 5* tow tune?
 

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So it's my understanding that unless you tune for it, there is no dependency on the methanol to just run the motor on regular pump gas. My thought is to have the methanol ready, then when ambient temps hit their high around noon-3 pm and I am peaking out on heat soak, I could flip it on for the next tank of gas. Can't you just turn it on and off when you want to use it if you're running stock tune? or even a plain jane 5* tow tune?
I'm no expert (never run meth in my life) but even the stock tune is adaptive. If you've got the spray on and the engine has advanced timing while you yank 10K up a long, tall grade, and your meth suddenly fails... things are going to get real hot, real quick. Would the PCM be able to pull timing, kill the boost, do all its protective things fast enough before the engine becomes critically hot? I dunno.
 

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I am also not sure that advancing timing is a good thing for coolant temps, TBH. Usually, retarding timing leads to higher EGT's because the hot stuff is in the cylinder a shorter time and more of that heat leaves with the exhaust. Advancing timing would likely have the opposite effect and cause the gases to sit in the cylinder longer and get the walls hotter. Not sure, but it makes sense in my head.
 

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Ordered the Mishi Radiator today..$663 shipped. Should make for a good Saturday project when it shows up!

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Im waiting until Black Friday to see if i can score a deal. The 11-14 radiator dropped to $560 on amazon last year I believe.
 

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Appears that a lot of OP's are going "Hunger Games"...on this particular reoccurring phenomenon-lol
I for one have the AFE Aluminum Deep Dish Transmission Pan; the Super Solutions Transmission Thermal Coolant Bypass Valve, & TurboSmart BOV (5* Perf/CAC Tunes downloaded to SCT)....sitting in my garage. Chomping at the bit to get this done.
I'd like to see the transmission temp stay 10°-20° below the coolant temp. We shall see.
C-PE shows up Monday (ordered it in August)....


20200311_192658.jpg


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Appears that a lot of OP's are going "Hunger Games"...on this particular reoccurring phenomenon-lol
I for one have the AFE Aluminum Deep Dish Transmission Pan; the Super Solutions Transmission Thermal Coolant Bypass Valve, & TurboSmart BOV (5* Perf/CAC Tunes downloaded to SCT)....sitting in my garage. Chomping at the bit to get this done.
I'd like to see the transmission temp stay 10°-20° below the coolant temp. We shall see.
C-PE shows up Monday (ordered it in August)....


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I do have the AFe pan as well. Other than the trans taking longer to warm up I really have not seen an change in temps.
 

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Appears that a lot of OP's are going "Hunger Games"...on this particular reoccurring phenomenon-lol
I for one have the AFE Aluminum Deep Dish Transmission Pan; the Super Solutions Transmission Thermal Coolant Bypass Valve, & TurboSmart BOV (5* Perf/CAC Tunes downloaded to SCT)....sitting in my garage. Chomping at the bit to get this done.
I'd like to see the transmission temp stay 10°-20° below the coolant temp. We shall see.
C-PE shows up Monday (ordered it in August)....


View attachment 168642

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I towed up to Houston Mesa campgrounds last weekend, even with constant shifting and keeping RPM's up and boost down my ECT still managed to hit 243° once and ambient temp was only 95°. Transmission temp only hit 206° max with the Mishi trans cooler. I hope this Radiator will take care of ECT's. IAT2 stayed in the 120s° with the Mishi CAC while under load.

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I do have the AFe pan as well. Other than the trans taking longer to warm up I really have not seen an change in temps.
I read an article on the Allison Transmission/ Duramax combo having overheating issues. It was traced to the thermal coolant bypass valve. The article went on to say that the OEM transcooler was sufficient and did not need to be upgraded. The valve was not letting the fluid pass through the cooler soon enough.
So I'm going to try it out on the Boost. The AFE pan holds 7 more quarts of trans fluid as you well know...but hey> it has a drain plug & is aluminium
Wanna see that 20.1 qrts of transmission fluid pumping through the system right off the bat!


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I am putting an external transmission cooler on my Lexus GX(a rebadged Toyota 4Runner with a 301hp/328 ft-lbs 4.6L V8) and decided to take measurements of the radiator. 25.5" x 25.5" x 1". My 2014 F150 max tow is 31.9" x 17" x 1.25":

Volume: The Lexus has a radiator volume of 645 cu-in. The F150 is 680 cu-in. So the Lexus is 95% of the core volume of the F150.

Frontal Area: Lexus has a larger frontal area. 25.5" x 25.5" = 655 sqin. The F150 is 31.9" x 17" = 540 sqin. So the Lexus has 21% more flow area through its radiator than the F150.

I towed my fully loaded travel trailer(water and everything) with my Lexus last weekend. I never once saw the engine coolant temps exceed 199.4°F. The GX could pull the wide open hills generally at 65mph so it wasn't like I was taking it easy. I also climbed two very large, steep passes(6500' to 9500' and 5000' to 8500') with lots of switch backs that I would take at 20 mph and then have to re-acceletate back up to 40-50 mph. Again, never once saw 200F even for a millisecond.

I really think Ford just missed the mark on the radiator as well as the fans. The fact that Lexus stuffed a larger radiator into a smaller vehicle(the GX is 4Runner based so its a mid-sized SUV, Tacoma sized) I really think is what made the difference. If I shrunk the flow path of my Lexus radiator by 20%, I suspect I would have cooling issues just like my F150.

Throwing at thicker core at the F150 is a diminishing return. The deeper the core, the warmer the air passing through it gets. Every inch you add to the core thickness is less effective than the inch before it since the cooling air passing over it is warmer(less delta T means less heat transfer). It also increases the flow resistance. So while we have these options for 42 and 52mm thick cores, its not really adding 30% or 60% more cooling capacity. By the time we get the cooling air to the last 10 or 20 mm of core thickness, its already hot and its adding some fraction of that 30%/60% increase in the core size.
 

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18 Plat Screw, FX4, 3.5, 10R80, max tow, stock tune, Mishi CAC no louvers, 40/60 cool/H2O
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Frontal surface area has a direct impact on radiator heat transfer capability vs radiator thickness as you mentioned. All other things being equal, 20% more frontal surface area = 20% more heat transfer capacity. 20% more thickness = much less than 20% more capacity because efficiency drops. Another way to think of it is more frontal surface area means more cool air mass flow = better heat transfer efficiency.

I suspect the F150 fans are more robust than the Lexus. Can’t imagine Lexus buyers would tolerate the F150 fan noise. So maybe Ford is compensating (somewhat) for smaller frontal surface area with obnoxious fans attempting to overcome thicker radiator delta p.

Still not clear to me if fans help at higher vehicle speeds. My truck heats to 226 degree ECT and then drops rapidly when the fans kick on high. This is at 80mph. Seems high is better than “not high” at that speed for airflow.

Biggest difference I see is NA vs turbo. At high boost, the F150 clearly produces power less efficiently than a NA configuration. I know this because my mpg pulling with boost quickly drops to 6-8 and overheat quickly follows. Same pull same speed in a lower gear with much less boost yields about 10 mpg and less propensity to overheat. Unless raw fuel is dumping out the tail pipe in higher boost scenarios, more fuel is burned to produce the same hp which should mean more waste heat to the cooling system and exhaust.
 

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Frontal surface area has a direct impact on radiator heat transfer capability vs radiator thickness as you mentioned. All other things being equal, 20% more frontal surface area = 20% more heat transfer capacity. 20% more thickness = much less than 20% more capacity because efficiency drops. Another way to think of it is more frontal surface area means more cool air mass flow = better heat transfer efficiency.

I suspect the F150 fans are more robust than the Lexus. Can’t imagine Lexus buyers would tolerate the F150 fan noise. So maybe Ford is compensating (somewhat) for smaller frontal surface area with obnoxious fans attempting to overcome thicker radiator delta p.

Still not clear to me if fans help at higher vehicle speeds. My truck heats to 226 degree ECT and then drops rapidly when the fans kick on high. This is at 80mph. Seems high is better than “not high” at that speed for airflow.

Biggest difference I see is NA vs turbo. At high boost, the F150 clearly produces power less efficiently than a NA configuration. I know this because my mpg pulling with boost quickly drops to 6-8 and overheat quickly follows. Same pull same speed in a lower gear with much less boost yields about 10 mpg and less propensity to overheat. Unless raw fuel is dumping out the tail pipe in higher boost scenarios, more fuel is burned to produce the same hp which should mean more waste heat to the cooling system and exhaust.
Nope, the lexus has a big old belt driven mechanical fan. And when it engages, you absolutely can hear it. I bet it outflows the electric fans.
 

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Frontal surface area has a direct impact on radiator heat transfer capability vs radiator thickness as you mentioned. All other things being equal, 20% more frontal surface area = 20% more heat transfer capacity. 20% more thickness = much less than 20% more capacity because efficiency drops. Another way to think of it is more frontal surface area means more cool air mass flow = better heat transfer efficiency.

I suspect the F150 fans are more robust than the Lexus. Can’t imagine Lexus buyers would tolerate the F150 fan noise. So maybe Ford is compensating (somewhat) for smaller frontal surface area with obnoxious fans attempting to overcome thicker radiator delta p.

Still not clear to me if fans help at higher vehicle speeds. My truck heats to 226 degree ECT and then drops rapidly when the fans kick on high. This is at 80mph. Seems high is better than “not high” at that speed for airflow.

Biggest difference I see is NA vs turbo. At high boost, the F150 clearly produces power less efficiently than a NA configuration. I know this because my mpg pulling with boost quickly drops to 6-8 and overheat quickly follows. Same pull same speed in a lower gear with much less boost yields about 10 mpg and less propensity to overheat. Unless raw fuel is dumping out the tail pipe in higher boost scenarios, more fuel is burned to produce the same hp which should mean more waste heat to the cooling system and exhaust.
And i get it with the turbos and the heat, but come on. Its a full size truck with a grille opening the size a of a football field and my soccer mom lexus has a higher capacity cooling system. I bet they could have made the radiator 4-5” taller and we would all be happy.

They missed the mark. They could have absolutely built these trucks to stay cool.

I do agree the fans are probably better on than off, even if its just to minimize restriction vs actually move the air. I would imagine ford would have known if running the fans at speed hurt performance and made some kind of speed related fan shutoff in the tuning.
 
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No argument from me that Ford could have easily addressed this. It’s not rocket science and it’s not a new model year hack. Ford is being hard-headed not to address this. I bet if they had to prominently acknowledge this limitation as a clear weakness in towing capability it would be fixed immediately.

“Max towing rating at sea level on flat terrain with 40 degree ambient temperature. See the chart below for significant reductions based on altitude, hilly terrain, and higher ambient temps. Suggest a soccer mom SUV under these adverse conditions is a more appropriate tow vehicle than an F150.”
 

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And i get it with the turbos and the heat, but come on. Its a full size truck with a grille opening the size a of a football field and my soccer mom lexus has a higher capacity cooling system. I bet they could have made the radiator 4-5” taller and we would all be happy.

They missed the mark. They could have absolutely built these trucks to stay cool.

I do agree the fans are probably better on than off, even if its just to minimize restriction vs actually move the air. I would imagine ford would have known if running the fans at speed hurt performance and made some kind of speed related fan shutoff in the tuning.
DO you still have the rubber ducting in place?
 

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