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I absolutely agree Ford missed the mark for cooling not only the 3.5 Eco, tho I don't have issues or the same towing conditions even tho it gets extremely hot and humid here.
 

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Thought you guys would get a kick outs this...
LOL. Certainly qualifies as a controversial idea! (Per thread name)

Regarding the core thickness comments, i get it’s less efficient. But I’ve yet to hear of someone who did the mishi radiator and is still having cooling issues, so whatever cooling capacity it’s adding in volume or surface area is working?


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It's a huge thread, but I think there IS a mishimoto radiator on one of the trucks and it helped, but still came up short on a certain occasion towing.



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I happened to be messaging with Geoff recently and he did mention that the FR design does have a more efficient fin design and it's not all about the number of cores.
 

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It's a huge thread, but I think there IS a mishimoto radiator on one of the trucks and it helped, but still came up short on a certain occasion towing.



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I dont think I have seen anyone say it has not worked but also don't know how hard they are pushing it.
 

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I happened to be messaging with Geoff recently and he did mention that the FR design does have a more efficient fin design and it's not all about the number of cores.
Crazy....I just had the same conversation with Geoff yesterday and he told me the same thing. Mishi core may be to thick but makes up for it by holding more coolant probably. At the end of the day no matter what radiator we are running its not hard to get high ECT's.....the bigger radiators will give us more headroom but if we're towing crazy we'll heat anything up. Smart towing+more efficient radiator=

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Wasnt masshole onto something a few pages back with the sensor placement? It is in a bad location that sees a high heat temp. Maybe this was done on purpose to be safe by Ford.
 

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Wasnt masshole onto something a few pages back with the sensor placement? It is in a bad location that sees a high heat temp. Maybe this was done on purpose to be safe by Ford.
I cant claim credit. I have no clue where the temp sensor is
 

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I think you may be thinking about this post from me where I asked the question about the temp sensor being in back of head next to coolant line coming from turbo.

I have also considered that maybe that is why Fords method for cooling it down in "limp mode" is to open wastegates to not allow any boost. Maybe they are really controlling heat of the turbos themselves by going into limp mode and the actual motor temps like cylinder head temps or oil temps aren't actually that bad.

I really don't know what I'm talking about though. It just still baffles me that these trucks would do this and not be addressed by Ford in simple testing that they do out in mountains and so forth before they release, they are monitoring loads of data on those pre production ynits. I try to reason in my head what the engineers might have intended, would be awesome to hear from some of them.

I also get my mind blown by how many people do these exact same things and run the trucks hard and aren't on these forums and don't even pay attention to 240 temps if it never goes into limp mode they just run it...so Ford must have been okay with that?

I’ve tried to read this thread but it’s long and I haven’t caught everything. So this may be discussed somewhere in here and I apologize.

Is it possible that the overall coolant temps aren’t actually as high as it reads? I know one of the passenger turbo coolant lines is right next to the coolant temp sensor in back if head, but not sure if it’s taking coolant in there or discharging it?

As everyone knows, the temps spike quickly when turbo is spinning fast creating boost, then quickly drop when they are not. So I wonder if it’s reading just a very localized section of coolant that isn’t representative of the whole.

I’m sure this has been discussed at length somewhere and it’s not this simple, but trying to get clarity. I’m leaving for a week long trip tomorrow pulling a TT through mountains and I’ve added CVF intercooler, 180 thermostat, and 5 star tune since I last towed, but thinking it still probably won’t be enough and I’ll need to do the Mishimoto. Thanks for help.


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Wasnt masshole onto something a few pages back with the sensor placement? It is in a bad location that sees a high heat temp. Maybe this was done on purpose to be safe by Ford.
I cant claim credit. I have no clue where the temp sensor is
 

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If the coolant sensor is on back of head coming from turbo, that would be hottest temp? Raise the temp limits in the tune so it wont go into limp mode at whatever temp that is and see what happens lol
 

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I think DNA was talking about putting a temp sensor on the inlet of the radiator. If its substantially lower than the ECT from the pcm then that would be a clue
 
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Have you guys seen this video? In particular the Davis Dam towing part? I think they did same thing with ecoboost years ago.

If this is not marketing BS and that dude with laptop was really logging every piece of available data for them to review then how in the world could they sell millions of trucks that aren’t capable?




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Have you guys seen this video? In particular the Davis Dam towing part? I think they did same thing with ecoboost years ago.

If this is not marketing BS and that dude with laptop was really logging every piece of available data for them to review then how in the world could they sell millions of trucks that aren’t capable?




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I wanna say davis dam is only at 1000’ of elevation, though. Also, to pass the SAE J2807 test(what the mfg’s all use now to justify their tow ratings) I believe the truck only has to maintain 45 or 50 mph up davis dam, which is a joke.

Edit: It starts at 500’ and climbs to 3500’.
 

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I wanna say davis dam is only at 1000’ of elevation, though. Also, to pass the SAE J2807 test(what the mfg’s all use now to justify their tow ratings) I believe the truck only has to maintain 45 or 50 mph up davis dam, which is a joke.

Edit: It starts at 500’ and climbs to 3500’.
40 mph, just looked it up. So do you think they just stay out of it in order to keep speeds down and temps down. It’s worded like “must be able to maintain” which makes it sound like a minimum standard.

I’m in TN though, have pulled 6500 trailer at 65-70 in 90ish ambient temps and could barely keep out of limp mode through rolling hills around here, no long steep grades like you western folks, but not Kansas either.


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40 mph, just looked it up. So do you think they just stay out of it in order to keep speeds down and temps down. It’s worded like “must be able to maintain” which makes it sound like a minimum standard.

I’m in TN though, have pulled 6500 trailer at 65-70 in 90ish ambient temps and could barely keep out of limp mode through rolling hills around here, no long steep grades like you western folks, but not Kansas either.


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Idk if they stay out of it, but there are a whole bunch of other tests as part of the standard, and my guess is the davis dam test is not what determines the tow rating on the half tons. Its probably one of the handling or braking tests.

Thats why for 2018 you had to get 20” wheels to get the highest tow rating. The 20’s probably handle better.
 

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I'm 100% convinced that Ford has the data.
They KNOW the limits.

It's not ignorance.

I realize that is the same thing as accusing them of accepting the required-technique-of-towing that many of us have used to avoid going into limp mode. But I see no other conclusion.

But let me ask you, would you be willing for Ford to gimp the potential power production of this motor in order to avoid the problem that only presents itself in these relatively rare circumstances? I'm not, myself. I'd rather just accept that this motor is capable of making more power than it can adequately cool, leaving ME with the responsibility to control the limits with my inputs.

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Have you guys seen this video? In particular the Davis Dam towing part? I think they did same thing with ecoboost years ago.

If this is not marketing BS and that dude with laptop was really logging every piece of available data for them to review then how in the world could they sell millions of trucks that aren’t capable?
They're also pulling a cargo trailer. Massively reduced front area compared to some of the condominiums-on-wheels being pulled by the guys in this thread. That has a huge effect on engine load, likely more than the weight itself.

I also noticed they're running those craptacular Pirelli Scorpion tires again. I am disappoint :(
 

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I'm 100% convinced that Ford has the data.
They KNOW the limits.

It's not ignorance.

I realize that is the same thing as accusing them of accepting the required-technique-of-towing that many of us have used to avoid going into limp mode. But I see no other conclusion.

But let me ask you, would you be willing for Ford to gimp the potential power production of this motor in order to avoid the problem that only presents itself in these relatively rare circumstances? I'm not, myself. I'd rather just accept that this motor is capable of making more power than it can adequately cool, leaving ME with the responsibility to control the limits with my inputs.

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But im never even close to WOT pulling hills. I could do most in 4th gear at 3400 rpm without blinking.

I would say the cooling system is only good for a sustained 200 hp. Pulling into a headwind on flat ground is pushing my truck into high 220’s or 230’s if i dont slow down.

You could detune this truck to 300 hp and still overheat it.
 
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