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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So at a bit over 200k on the clock, my trans was making some racket… suspected torque converter coming apart.

Decided with the mileage it made the most sense to rebuild or replace the transmission as simply pulling it to investigate looked to run at least $1200.

So, naturally, this was the time to install that Saudi trans cooler I’ve been eyeing for a few years… along with a rear main seal, raptor trans mount, new cooler lines and a Dorman pan with drain plug.

Fast forward, the new (reman) trans is installed with all the aforementioned goodies. I can’t get the thing to run over 135 degrees! Today, towing our (little) trailer home from camp it barely broke 120 in an hour of highway driving. Before it ran 201 when warmed up, sometimes ticking up to 210 when towing.

I have a hard time imagining that the new cooler has cut 80 degrees off the operating temperature. What do you guys think?

Using my edge sct to monitor temps… trucks gauge cluster agrees. According to performance and the SCT, torque converter is locking up even at these low temps.


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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well,.you have two variables going on and it could be one or both (reman trans and new cooler).
To be honest, I suspect the trans, or maybe just a sensor. I know I’m not the first to add a bigger trans cooler to an ecoboost


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Alot cooler here today at 64.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Last week it was running 134 at 74 ambient. Today, max 122 at 60. On Friday with ambient around 90 it was still below 140.

Bad/missing/open thermostat makes sense.

I think this thing was built on a Friday. First day I picked it up it was leaking fluid… they (transmission shop who installed the reman) found a bad or missing seal at the pump. Got that “fixed” and it’s still slipping when downshifting 4 to 3 under acceleration.

I swear, every time I let someone else work on this thing… sheesh!


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I have the Saudi Cooler and once my transmission is up to temp it never drops below 199 or so. Towing I am around 203. Not towing it does take probably 30 minutes to get up to temp but once there it stays there.

Before the Saudi cooler I was running an Excursion V10 cooler which was even bigger and even then I never ran cooler than 198-199

There is def something going on with the thermostat.
 

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Expertise and true professionalism has been declining in quantity, or in ease of access, for some time. And ironically, the need for it increases with technology and sophisticated products.
It's not so alarming for the kinds of products that can just be disposable rather than repairable, but the automobile just isn't in that category.

DNA Dan, probably to his chagrin, is my personal example of what the new option is for situations like this. He's NOT an automotive technician. He's a scientist professionally. But he desired to have an expensive and extremely critical repair done correctly. So he researched the procedure and then methodically performed the procedure himself.

It made quite the impression on this old man because I put myself in his shoes and was not comfortable with having a dealership do it for my truck. There's no explanation for the percentage of botched results with the Ecoboost timing chain repair other than the reduction of expertise and/or professionalism. DNA Dan made that embarrassingly evident. (that is not meant to be insulting in any way)

There's a reason that Ford Techmakaloco is working on F150's from Alabama. Somebody is desperate enough to trust someone with his 10 year old truck that he'll drive it or ship it to Chicago.

I said all that to say it's amazing how much trouble you are dealing with just getting your truck fixed up with a rebuilt transmission. Not a rare or special transmission either. A 6R80 for goodness sake. Literally millions in existence.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah, I figured replacing the trans with a reman would mitigate the potential for botched work… it clearly has not eliminated it though.

I see the phenomenon you speak of all over in my line of work, home building. It seems to have infiltrated almost all areas of commerce. We are now waiting longer and paying more for lower quality goods and craftsmanship. The “Covid” “shortages” seems to have increase the angle of the curve for this decline.

The silver lining in it all is that this leaves a void ready to be filled by individuals who wish to do better, provide exceptional quality work and goods for those of us who are wanting. Fordtechmakuloco is a prime example.

Short of that guy,I would not trust another to do the timing chain and exhaust manifold jobs my truck needs next. I too am a bit of a scientist, at least in part (perhaps more at heart.) I chose to move into building science and design but even that I approach using the methods I learned during my 3 year tenure as a pre-med student.

I’m going to reach out to the shop this morning. Hopefully we can get it sorted before my family vacation coming up in a couple weeks. If it’s trying another reman unit, it’ll be cutting it close.


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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So I apparently spared you all another part of the saga in my initial post…

I initially picked the truck up last Monday with the new reman tranny installed. Noticed the cool temps but figured it was just taking longer to warm up. So the next day I set out to see how long it would take to get to what I consider a normal operating temperature… or at least north of 150. After a couple hours, accelerating from a roll, the thing slipped really bad… then it kept happening as I tried to replicate the issue.

I pull over and notice a few drips under the truck. Go inside, grab a sandwich and the drips are bigger. Check it and sure enough it’s red. It’s also making a “honk” sound under the same downshifting condition into 3rd.




Took the truck back last Wednesday so they could see what was up. They pulled the trans, found a leaking seal at the pump, and got it back to me “fixed” Friday afternoon.

At that time we discussed the temps and the proprietor agreed that it was running cooler than ideal, but the leak and slippage were of primary concern.

Over this last weekend, it never really slipped, but would hesitate and “honk“ when downshifting into third.

All that background so I can ask you guys a couple questions…

Do the 6r80’s tend to require a friction modifier in addition to Mercon LV? That’s what they added to “fix” it today. When I questioned why it was not packaged with that fluid from the re-manufacturer, they said, “sometimes they need it and sometimes they don’t. This make sense to any of you? I wasn’t aware that the 6r80 required any additional modifier when running mercon LV.

They are also blaming the low operating temperature on the cooler I had them install, refusing to accept that it could be a flaw in the unit. I’m thinking of that train of thought continues, I’ll have them reinstall the original and we will see what temp it gets to

I have not actually picked up and driven the truck myself, that’ll be tomorrow.

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So I apparently spared you all another part of the saga in my initial post…

I initially picked the truck up last Monday with the new reman tranny installed. Noticed the cool temps but figured it was just taking longer to warm up. So the next day I set out to see how long it would take to get to what I consider a normal operating temperature… or at least north of 150. After a couple hours, accelerating from a roll, the thing slipped really bad… then it kept happening as I tried to replicate the issue.

I pull over and notice a few drips under the truck. Go inside, grab a sandwich and the drips are bigger. Check it and sure enough it’s red. It’s also making a “honk” sound under the same downshifting condition into 3rd.




Took the truck back last Wednesday so they could see what was up. They pulled the trans, found a leaking seal at the pump, and got it back to me “fixed” Friday afternoon.

At that time we discussed the temps and the proprietor agreed that it was running cooler than ideal, but the leak and slippage were of primary concern.

Over this last weekend, it never really slipped, but would hesitate and “honk“ when downshifting into third.

All that background so I can ask you guys a couple questions…

Do the 6r80’s tend to require a friction modifier in addition to Mercon LV? That’s what they added to “fix” it today. When I questioned why it was not packaged with that fluid from the re-manufacturer, they said, “sometimes they need it and sometimes they don’t. This make sense to any of you? I wasn’t aware that the 6r80 required any additional modifier when running mercon LV.

They are also blaming the low operating temperature on the cooler I had them install, refusing to accept that it could be a flaw in the unit. I’m thinking of that train of thought continues, I’ll have them reinstall the original and we will see what temp it gets to

I have not actually picked up and driven the truck myself, that’ll be tomorrow.

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No it should not need additives. I've only ever put Mercon LV or Valvoline MaxLife in mine.
 

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There is a 6R80 additive ford offered for some transmissions needing to “break-in”. It only effected a small group. But I highly doubt that is what you need.

It’s called XL-16 and I’ve only used it once on a truck. The kit consists of a dye and additive. The service manual states to only use the Additive (F) and adjust according on the platform ( 6r80, 6r140 ).

 

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What was the cost of the rebuilt 6R80? I've seen prices around $2500 for a "walk in, walk out" deal, where you bring your core in and leave with their mystery unit. And it wasn't your original unit, it was a random trans? Did they break down a list of the specific parts, or just bill for the generic "rebuild kit"? My 2011 6.2 Raptor might need this soon, I'm trying to prepare for it😬
 

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Expertise and true professionalism has been declining in quantity, or in ease of access, for some time. And ironically, the need for it increases with technology and sophisticated products.
It's not so alarming for the kinds of products that can just be disposable rather than repairable, but the automobile just isn't in that category.

DNA Dan, probably to his chagrin, is my personal example of what the new option is for situations like this. He's NOT an automotive technician. He's a scientist professionally. But he desired to have an expensive and extremely critical repair done correctly. So he researched the procedure and then methodically performed the procedure himself.

It made quite the impression on this old man because I put myself in his shoes and was not comfortable with having a dealership do it for my truck. There's no explanation for the percentage of botched results with the Ecoboost timing chain repair other than the reduction of expertise and/or professionalism. DNA Dan made that embarrassingly evident. (that is not meant to be insulting in any way)

There's a reason that Ford Techmakaloco is working on F150's from Alabama. Somebody is desperate enough to trust someone with his 10 year old truck that he'll drive it or ship it to Chicago.

I said all that to say it's amazing how much trouble you are dealing with just getting your truck fixed up with a rebuilt transmission. Not a rare or special transmission either. A 6R80 for goodness sake. Literally millions in existence.
Appreciate the vote of confidence! As I've gotten older and observed "The great decline", part of me wonders when everything became a scam? You can't go five feet out your front door without someone looking to take your money and give you a pickle in return. Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying experts who can deliver what they promise, my hat goes off to those folks and I certainly have no issue paying top dollar for it. But I must confess, 9 times out of 10 when I drop the coin for such things I am left feeling like someone sucker punched me in the gut. It's everywhere, in all industries, and yes, even in science. You know how many times I've processed a sample which I know comes from a poorly designed experiment? I'll spend thousands of dollars on it even though I know the data is going to be garbage.

I just want to return to the times when people delivered on their promises, didn't oversell you on expectations and delivered something of actual substance. Doesn't look like that's happening anytime soon, so I need to become my own expert out of necessity. I certainly don't mind getting my hands dirty and giving my best effort on something that is completely foreign to me. It's a great time to be alive for tinkerers, developers, creators, engineers, designers, etc. with the internet and sharing ideas, successes, failures, etc. In no other time in history has anyone on the planet had so much power at their fingertips. Many people WANT a better job, but how many people want TO DO a better job? You just have to have the desire and the will to want something bad enough and you'll find a way to make it work.

One of the greatest inspirations in my youth was a person named Cavett Robert. My father introduced me to some of his speeches. I just googled his name and it appears you can download them for free. His series "Are you the Cause of the Result?" is really fabulous. It's incredible to think how this guy was thinking like this back in the 70's. Where did we go wrong? If you have the time I suggest you give it a listen. Some of it is dated obviously, but the messages are really great. Cavett was a really interesting person. Cavett Robert Digital Downloads

Sorry to engage in derailing the thread. But I just felt the moment was right and I think you'll all enjoy it.

As for the transmission, Something isn't right for it to be running that cold. Is it possible that things are a bit "loose" inside and it's not pumping fluid as hard as it should? Thus the friction modifier to "cover-up" the sloppiness? I'd be angling for a refund. This smells awfully fishy to me. Operating temperature is operating temperature, regardless of the weather outside. The trans is designed to get up to 195 degrees and stabilize there. How is your gas mileage?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you for the detail! It was a nice Segway to some bit of hope and inspiration among the otherwise all negative subject matter.

My gas mileage is unchanged or slightly improved following the swap.


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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
What was the cost of the rebuilt 6R80? I've seen prices around $2500 for a "walk in, walk out" deal, where you bring your core in and leave with their mystery unit. And it wasn't your original unit, it was a random trans? Did they break down a list of the specific parts, or just bill for the generic "rebuild kit"? My 2011 6.2 Raptor might need this soon, I'm trying to prepare for it
This is not an in house rebuild but a Re manufactured unit with a 3-year 100k warranty from a (supposedly) reputable source. I still think the shop who did the install will make this right in the end but I am definitely frustrated with the process

Edit: coat was $5085 out the door including the install of all the extra goodies (paid for those separately) … they only charged me a couple hundred for the extra labor and some fluid.

I shopped around quite a bit. Rebuild ranged from $3800-4200.

One shop offered a salvage for 3700

Reman options were as high as $8700… local Ford dealer was at $6700 with unknown lead time due to back order


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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There is a 6R80 additive ford offered for some transmissions needing to “break-in”. It only effected a small group. But I highly doubt that is what you need.

It’s called XL-16 and I’ve only used it once on a truck. The kit consists of a dye and additive. The service manual states to only use the Additive (F) and adjust according on the platform ( 6r80, 6r140 ).

xl-16 is what they used. It did not fix the issues. I’m strangely relieved… I was worried that it would simply cover up the underlying problem(s) and lead to premature failure and a shorter service life.

I got 200k out of the factory trans. In my opinion, it’s fair to expect that this one should outlast the truck, ie give me at least 100k miles of use

If they keep on about the new cooler causing temps to be low, I’m going to have them reinstall the old one… figure that should settle that


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