[Chris S]

I am considering two different trailers and would like some feedback. My vehicle:

2017 Ford F150 XLT 4WD
Supercrew Cab, 145 inch wheel base
3.5L V-6 Ecoboost
Max Tow Package
3:55 Axles
GVWR 7000 lbs.
CGWR 16,900 lbs.
Front GAWR 3450 lbs.
Rear GAWR 3800 lbs.
Conventional towing capacity with weight distributing hitch 11,500 lbs. Fifth-wheel towing capacity is 10,200 lbs.

The two trailers I’m considering:

Travel trailer: Keystone Outback 324CG. UVW 7974 lbs., GVWR 10,500 lbs., carrying capacity 2526 lbs., hitch weight 870 lbs.

Fifth wheel trailer: Keystone Cougar 27SGS. UVW 8046 lbs., GVWR 10,290 lbs., carrying capacity 2244 lbs., hitch weight 1495 lbs.

I also plan on adding some type of suspension upgrade (although it will not legally raise my carrying capacity) such as the Roadmaster Active Suspension kit. Which trailer would tow better with my truck? We plan on using if full time, only driving short distances and staying for a few days at a time. Transmission service and oil change intervals will increase.

 

[tvsjr]

What's the yellow payload sticker inside the door say? I'm betting you're around 1700, since your truck isn't an HDPP. That fifth wheel will almost certainly put you over on GVWR and rear GAWR.

 

[snakebitten]

I second the request for the yellow tag.
All the towing capacity in the world does you no good if you don't have the cargo capacity to "carry" the load.

Pulling VS carrying

These amazing Ecoboost can pull more than they can carry

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[Chris S]

What's the yellow payload sticker inside the door say? I'm betting you're around 1700, since your truck isn't an HDPP. That fifth wheel will almost certainly put you over on GVWR and rear GAWR.

Payload capacity is 3270 lbs.

 

[snakebitten]

Huh?

Wait, are you sure this is an F150? Lol

That would be an HDPP single cab long bed XL. Or something similar.

Gotta see a pic!

(we have an unofficial competition around here for highest cargo capacity. You just FLEW by the current leader. I mean you smoked him!)

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[Chris S]

Huh?

Wait, are you sure this is an F150? Lol

That would be an HDPP single cab long bed XL. Or something similar.

Gotta see a pic!

(we have an unofficial competition around here for highest cargo capacity. You just FLEW by the current leader. I mean you smoked him!)

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Yellow sticker shows 1813 with 275/65R18 116T. Towing guide shows 2030 lbs. in chart and 3270 lbs. at front of brochure if properly equipped. The 116 reduces the load capacity due to tire is only rated for 1250 lbs. each, 5000 lbs. total minus curb weight. If I am not mistaken, when you increase the tire load rating, you can increase load capacity to indicated GVWR minus curb weight of vehicle. America's Tire has tires for my vehicle rated at 3415 lbs. each. View attachment 165238

 

[snakebitten]

1813 is what you have "legally"

And honestly, that's not bad for a non HDPP truck. Pretty good, in fact.

I'm NOT saying you can't exceed 1813.
But I assure you that from the Captains chair while traveling down the road you WILL know you are taxing the chassis. The 3.5 drivetrain, not so much.

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[snakebitten]

This is my brother's HDPP.
He can drop a 1000lbs ON his truck and still have my Cargo Capacity left to work with. Freaking amazing, when you think about it.

By the way, the HDPP truck has a different frame. It's not just tires and rims and such

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[theasphaltrv'er]

Chris S
May I add my thoughts please. I don't know if you have enough truck for either one of em. We have a '13 XLT CC HDPP Ecoboost with a payload capacity of 2172 and a stock suspension. We tow a 2014 Cougar 26sab and we're right at our limits. Dry pin weight is 1190 / travel ready it's 1450 and 8600 # total weight . GVWR is 9960. We've put a little over 10,000 miles on this set up. Awesome combination. Before the 5er we tried to tow a 31 ft. TT.

Milo

 

[tvsjr]

Yellow sticker shows 1813 with 275/65R18 116T. Towing guide shows 2030 lbs. in chart and 3270 lbs. at front of brochure if properly equipped. The 116 reduces the load capacity due to tire is only rated for 1250 lbs. each, 5000 lbs. total minus curb weight. If I am not mistaken, when you increase the tire load rating, you can increase load capacity to indicated GVWR minus curb weight of vehicle. America's Tire has tires for my vehicle rated at 3415 lbs. each. View attachment 165238

From a legal perspective, it doesn't matter what tires you install, what suspension components you add, etc. You will be operating illegally if you exceed the yellow sticker. The only way to change it is if you are considered a "manufacturer" in the eyes of the law and can generate your own stickers after all the proper safety testing. I know one fire apparatus vendor that does this - changing a front axle - but it's very expensive, time consuming, and should be done in concert with the original manufacturer.

And, that payload sticker includes everything... you, a full tank of fuel, your passengers, anything you carry.

You'd also be smart to verify the hitch weights with the trailer loaded as you intend to operate it. Many people have purchased a trailer that was nearing the maximum for their tow vehicle, then discovered they were substantially overweight by the time they packed the trailer full of all their stuff.

 

[snakebitten]

There is some debate that the yellow sticker actually leaves room for fuel and driver. I've heard arguments both ways.

You'd have to scale your truck to know for sure.

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[Chris S]

From a legal perspective, it doesn't matter what tires you install, what suspension components you add, etc. You will be operating illegally if you exceed the yellow sticker. The only way to change it is if you are considered a "manufacturer" in the eyes of the law and can generate your own stickers after all the proper safety testing. I know one fire apparatus vendor that does this - changing a front axle - but it's very expensive, time consuming, and should be done in concert with the original manufacturer.

And, that payload sticker includes everything... you, a full tank of fuel, your passengers, anything you carry.

You'd also be smart to verify the hitch weights with the trailer loaded as you intend to operate it. Many people have purchased a trailer that was nearing the maximum for their tow vehicle, then discovered they were substantially overweight by the time they packed the trailer full of all their stuff.

Thanks for the advice, but unless you're a lawyer, I would be careful about using the word legal. As a retired law enforcement officer, spending over 8 years in commercial enforcement, there is no statute in CA or federally that enforces weight ratings, other than tire load ratings. It would only come into effect in a civil motion, which would be near impossible to prove it was exceeded after the fact. I was looking for more of a mechanics view point, not what has been offered so far.

 

[mwemaxxowner]

There is some debate that the yellow sticker actually leaves room for fuel and driver. I've heard arguments both ways.

You'd have to scale your truck to know for sure.

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And I find that the easiest way to get around all that is throw the yellow sticker out the door.

You know the gvwr. Go weigh the truck.

Whatever the difference is...THAT is what you have to work with.

Then double check it loaded up.

As to your "mechanics viewpoint", the long and short of it is we don't know.

That gvwr was assigned with the entire truck working in concert to support that load. It's a little known fact that there are at least two frame duties in use, although I'm sure you have the HD.

Anyway, as I mentioned, that gvwr is what your truck can handle as designed. Tires, frame, wheels, springs, axles, brakes, everything.

We didn't engineer it, and we can't tell you with any certainty exactly which links in the chain are the weakest. Even if I thought I knew, I'd never suggest to anyone that it's okay to go substantially over the published safe capacities on their truck.

TV's point was simply, it doesn't matter what you change, you're still restricted to what those numbers say. We change things so we can work within those ratings, especially if we're near the maximum limit, "mo Betta".

I installed an add a leaf kit on my truck. Autospring advertises that they add 950 lbs of assistance. I'm under no delusions that my payload is now 1524 + 950. What it did, though, is make me handle 1524 as if it was the middle of my range, not almost tapped out.

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[mass-hole]

Thanks for the advice, but unless you're a lawyer, I would be careful about using the word legal. As a retired law enforcement officer, spending over 8 years in commercial enforcement, there is no statute in CA or federally that enforces weight ratings, other than tire load ratings. It would only come into effect in a civil motion, which would be near impossible to prove it was exceeded after the fact.

So as a retired law enforcement officer, spending over 8 years in commercial enforcement, you would willing exceed your trucks stated limits by a decent margin cause no one can prove you did after you crash?

 

[Dworth]

So as a retired law enforcement officer, spending over 8 years in commercial enforcement, you would willing exceed your trucks stated limits by a decent margin cause no one can prove you did after you crash?

Thought the same thing. I feel it would not be hard to prove if you get the yellow sticker and manufacturing spec of the trailer and boom. A cheap attorney could figure that out if you killed a family of four after losing control because of weight.


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[Tanker74]

Bottom line Chris, it comes down to what the driver is comfortable taking on. Can you tow either of those, yes, but you will be over limits on either one of them. I have a set up much like "theasphaltrv'er" except I'm pulling a 2017 and his is a 2014. Also I have a 3.73 rear end with max tow, but not the HDPP. My dry pin is around 1150, and dry wt, is 6500. I have never been scaled it loaded, but I'm sure it's about the same as his as well. I know I am over by at least a couple hundred pounds, esp when I put in my 300lb ish slider hitch. I have E rated tires, Bilstien shocks all the way around, add a leafs, and air bags, and upgraded brakes. As "mwemaxxowner" stated the add a leafs do give ya an extra 950, but it doesn't officially increase your payload capacity in the eyes of a law "if you know what hits the fan and the worst happens, and they want to pursue it". it just keeps ya from squating.

As a former CDL Class A driver, I understand the load capacity, and am personally willing to do what I need to do and still feel safe on the road. Am I over weight, yes, am I concerned it is going to cause issues on the road, absolutely not.

The one mechanical thing I would say is that with your 3.55 rear end and the almost 1500 pin (I assume that's dry)? You would be putting A LOT of stress on that poor axle and tranny. Doable, sure, but you run a much higher risk of burning them both up prematurely. And it is also about being able to stop all of that mass behind you when ya need to.

Just my $0.02...

 

[snakebitten]

This forum is actually tow-friendly, compared to the RV forums. In fact, we kind of champion the fellas that find solutions for getting everything they can out of these Ecoboost haulers.

I thought you got pretty sound feedback considering the questions you asked. I'm not sure what you were looking for if this wasn't what you were looking for.

I'll stick to my original point and claim that these trucks can pull considerably more than they can carry. In fact, they have as much or more pulling power as the legendary 7.3 Diesels. But being F150's, they just can't carry as much.

Although the HDPP versions do approach F250 lower end capacity. But your truck doesn't really apply, in that special circumstance.

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[madmaxmutt]

Yellow sticker shows 1813 with 275/65R18 116T. Towing guide shows 2030 lbs. in chart and 3270 lbs. at front of brochure if properly equipped. The 116 reduces the load capacity due to tire is only rated for 1250 lbs. each, 5000 lbs. total minus curb weight. If I am not mistaken, when you increase the tire load rating, you can increase load capacity to indicated GVWR minus curb weight of vehicle. America's Tire has tires for my vehicle rated at 3415 lbs. each. View attachment 165238

As others have already stated; you are misinterpreting/mixing marketing numbers for product sales (ie the perfect example truck/trailer to sell you one) in with what your individual truck/trailer was designed to do.

UVW weights for campers are not what you will ever tow with. Nor are the associated hitch weights. Nor are trucks certified for towing big square trailers, to verify their towing limits.

Since it sounds like you plan to live the life, Tanker's words of how comfortable you will be are glaring. If you want to push your truck's limits every day you drive in that life, you can. If that is what you want, go for it.

The Ecoboost trucks and F150s in general are really capable trucks, and will tow those trailers OK with some minor mods. But if you plan to tow north of 9,000 lbs day in and day out in reality, you need to find a lighter trailer or a little better equipped truck.

And, IMO anyone going 5th wheel with an F150 should be looking at an Andersen Ultimate instead of several hundred additional pounds of hitch in the bed.

 

[Boltman760]

I guess he took his ball and went home.

 

[GearHead_1]

@Chris S, Yeah, it’s not right to start a thread and then pull all of your posts because you don’t like what’s been said. You may choose to withdraw from the thread but every person who has responded in the thread has invested their thoughts and time. Others may benefit from the thread. The posts have been restored and this thread is closed.