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Discussion Starter #1
During deer season last week, I decided to try 87 Octane since I was going to be burning a lot more fuel than normal for the week and I also wanted to see how it would work. I normally burn 89 Octane because it's consistently better than the 91 Premium around here (according to LOR). The LOR moved between +25 and +75 and ran pretty well. I ran it from two different stations and they were fairly similar. The MPG was not much different if at all. I noticed that there wasn't as much low to mid-range power and the truck definitely surged once RPMs reached a certain level. Sport Mode with 87 has a much more dramatic effect because of this. With winter blend 89 octane, my LOR typically stays around 0, plus or minus about 15 either way. There is a definite sound difference in the engine and there is quite a bit more low and mid range torque. Summer blend 89 will usually run from -30 to -70 on the LOR and also has a noticeable difference. Summer blend 91 octane (I've tried a bunch of different brands/stations) will range from +30 to -30 LOR and is never as consistent as the 89.

On a trip to Tennessee last summer, I ran strictly Premium and once I got out of Wisconsin and into central Illinois, the premium fuel was dramatically better. My LOR was pegged at -1.0 the entire time and the KR as almost always negative. Once back in Wisconsin, I filled up on premium at a station close to the border and was almost immediately saw the LOR drop down and hover around the zero range. I've also filled on premium in other states that weren't close to the WI border and the premium was always better than the garbage we have here. There is one station within about 50 miles of here that has 93 octane with ethanol that will run close to -1, but only in the summer months. What's worse is that they charge 70-90 cents more per gallon for that garbage. 89 in usually about 20 cents more than 87.

So, while I was somewhat pleasantly surprised by the reasonable performance of 87, I continue to be disappointed by the "premuim" fuel we have around here. I've also noticed that this truck as well as the 2016 3.5 I had both prefer e10 over non-ethanol fuels.
 

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I have some questions, and then some comments.

First my question. What is LOR and KR? What are these +15, -1, etc you are referring to? What elevation are you at and traveling to? How cold is it where you are?

And now my comments.

Your engine only needs 87, but if you want to run 89, by all means. I've found that most of my gasoline engines run better on higher octane, but the return on investment from the higher octane tends to run out above mid grade.

Octane number isn't super relevant, because it has a lot to do with altitude. In some areas 89 might be the low tire, where at in others 85 might be; all has to do with elevation. Today's modern computers are able to compensate for these changes very well.

In nearly all gas stations they don't actually sell a mid tier gasoline like 89. They sell you 1 part low tier and 1 part high tier. For example 87 and 91, which when combined equal 89. So, it would be rather strange that on premium it runs worse than mid grade, since it's actually the same gas, just "watered down" with some 87.

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The octane debate, as well as the ethanol debate, are both considerably different when it comes to this twin Turbo direct injection motor.

Before I bought my first Ecoboost, I felt very different about corn and octane. Despised corn, and thought premium was a ripoff.

So different with these trucks. At least in my parts where good 93 is everywhere and easy to access.

This truck is SO different with corn fed 93. It's not hard to notice the difference if you are having fun with the truck.
Admittedly, if just commuting and driving easy, it's no different between the grades. At least I don't notice. But I don't trust myself to go through 36 gallons driving like grandpa. But I do put 87 in "her" Ecoboost truck because she ain't boosting. Ever!

In fact, I drive her truck once a week as a favor to her, if you know what I mean.

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Discussion Starter #4
The LOR is the Learned Octane Rating which is a reading that shows how much these engines "like" the fuel you are running. An LOR of -1 means it is running maximum timing, boost, etc and making the most power through the range. There are others who can explain it in greater and more accurate detail, but for me, it's been a good indicator of where to buy fuel and not buy fuel. KR is the Knock Retard, which also is a measurement that is better when a negative value. When the number is negative, it's adding timing and making power. I have had instances where I have very certainly noticed the truck struggling a bit to get going and a glance at the KR shows a +5 or worse. Once it comes out of it, the number shoots negative and you can feel the power come on. The truck has these little "episodes" from time-to-time and it is very noticeable.

I realize there are those who say fuel doesn't make a difference and that you can't actually notice the change in power that fuel makes, but I very definitely disagree with that. I think that there are those who just can't feel the difference for one reason or another. I can both feel and hear the difference in the truck when it's running at these different levels.

Why the "blended" 89 is better then actual 91 I can only speculate. I'd have to guess that the ethanol keeps knock lower because of cooling the fuel/air charge or some other means.
 

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As mentioned you absolutely can feel a difference running the different octane's.

I've been back on stock tune for a little bit now since we are finally getting a ton of rain and the first tank Iran was 91 then now 87, pretty significant difference

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As mentioned you absolutely can feel a difference running the different octane's.

I've been back on stock tune for a little bit now since we are finally getting a ton of rain and the first tank Iran was 91 then now 87, pretty significant difference

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Stock tune?! Nobody got time for that!

Oh and your sig is out of date...
 
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Stock tune?! Nobody got time for that!

Oh and your sig is out of date...
Lol.
Yeah, well and also the first of the year I'm going to take the truck in for a few things I want to have looked at and documented, honestly that's the main reason. Getting stock tune miles/drive cycles on the truck in the meantime.

I tried updating my signature a couple times on the regular desktop and this and it's not working for me.


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Lol.
Yeah, well and also the first of the year I'm going to take the truck in for a few things I want to have looked at and documented, honestly that's the main reason. Getting stock tune miles/drive cycles on the truck in the meantime.

I tried updating my signature a couple times on the regular desktop and this and it's not working for me.


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So can they tell we are tuned? Is it a certain amount of cycles?
 

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From what I've heard, if you loaded your stock tune and put numerous cycles over a few days, it would take more than a cursory glance or "normal" repair procedure to uncover the evidence.

I'm paraphrasing.

And I have no proof how true that is.

I personally don't worry too much because I have a reasonable relationship with my dealership, but that isn't something that is ever etched in stone when Ford or money is concerned.

I also have a backup motor if all heck broke loose. But still I would load the factory tune and a fair amount of cycles before I had anyone hook ids to my warrantied truck.

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The LOR is the Learned Octane Rating which is a reading that shows how much these engines "like" the fuel you are running. An LOR of -1 means it is running maximum timing, boost, etc and making the most power through the range. There are others who can explain it in greater and more accurate detail, but for me, it's been a good indicator of where to buy fuel and not buy fuel. KR is the Knock Retard, which also is a measurement that is better when a negative value. When the number is negative, it's adding timing and making power. I have had instances where I have very certainly noticed the truck struggling a bit to get going and a glance at the KR shows a +5 or worse. Once it comes out of it, the number shoots negative and you can feel the power come on. The truck has these little "episodes" from time-to-time and it is very noticeable.

I realize there are those who say fuel doesn't make a difference and that you can't actually notice the change in power that fuel makes, but I very definitely disagree with that. I think that there are those who just can't feel the difference for one reason or another. I can both feel and hear the difference in the truck when it's running at these different levels.

Why the "blended" 89 is better then actual 91 I can only speculate. I'd have to guess that the ethanol keeps knock lower because of cooling the fuel/air charge or some other means.
Thanks for that. Very informative.

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From what I've heard, if you loaded your stock tune and put numerous cycles over a few days, it would take more than a cursory glance or "normal" repair procedure to uncover the evidence.

I'm paraphrasing.

And I have no proof how true that is.

I personally don't worry too much because I have a reasonable relationship with my dealership, but that isn't something that is ever etched in stone when Ford or money is concerned.

I also have a backup motor if all heck broke loose. But still I would load the factory tune and a fair amount of cycles before I had anyone hook ids to my warrantied truck.

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A cycle as in as in not needing to start the truck but on Just turning it to ACC? If yes, I assume everything does not have to “power up” to count as a cycle? That said, I am assuming one could just rock the key back in forth a bunch of time to get the “count” up.


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OAR and LOR basically the same thing different abbreviations??
SE WI resident and use mostly Kwik Trip 93 octane fuel with min alcohol content. Have not tested ratio of alcohol but the pumps are labeled "up to 10%". I use a tune that is octane variable as the stock tune is. OAR consistently -.78 (summer blend) to -.90 (winter blend oxygenated) displayed via a BullyDog GTX interface, and a BCB Highlander tune.
Definitely feel a drop in mid to high RPM power with lower octane, but no run issues as it operates very well with the range of 87 to 93 octane. I do get better mileage with 93 by 2 MPG or so recorded over 2 years use, and lose that mileage running winter blend mandated for the 5 county SE WI area. My OAR has never gone positive.
I do feel fuel quality makes a bigger difference with the adjustable octane EB's so I use top tier fuel as much as possible and wile little proof other than 1 change of spark plugs cleaner.
The octane flexibility was odd to get used to as I grew up in the 60's when even 2 barrel carb Pontiacs had 10.5 CR, my 68 Z28 11.5 CR really knocked with under 100 octane and 103-105 octane was common. Interesting and suprised me was the EB 2.7 I own now is quicker than the street preped Z28! Out of a truck with almost 1/2 the displacement and 1000 pounds more weight! KM
 
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So can they tell we are tuned? Is it a certain amount of cycles?
When you turn your key to on don't start the truck just let it sit there for about 15 seconds, if the truck isn't ready the check engine light will flash seven or eight times, if the truck is ready it will not flash it all it will just stay solid. That's one red flag. (if it flashes)

I get enough drive cycles, miles so where that goes away and stay solid then bring the truck in.
Of course some say just disconnecting your battery will cause the seven flashes as well until the truck has gone through all its ready test.

I have the 5 star warranty as well so I'm not as worried about it but I would rather not even have to hassle with that unless absolutely necessary, that's just my safety net/plan B.


Post #2 explains it in detail in this thread:


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When you turn your key to on don't start the truck just let it sit there for about 15 seconds, if the truck isn't ready the check engine light will flash seven or eight times, if the truck is ready it will not flash it all it will just stay solid. That's one red flag. (if it flashes)

I get enough drive cycles, miles so where that goes away and stay solid then bring the truck in.
Of course some say just disconnecting your battery will cause the seven flashes as well until the truck has gone through all its ready test.

I have the 5 star warranty as well so I'm not as worried about it but I would rather not even have to hassle with that unless absolutely necessary, that's just my safety net/plan B.


Post #2 explains it in detail in this thread:


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Thanks.

I need to go get the rubber dealybobs that go between the tailgate and bed. Mine fell off! They are held on by a trim style attachment that's pretty crappy. I don't know if they will even bother checking anything out, but I'd rather be safe.

Also, check your dealybobs, they might be falling off..:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
OAR and LOR basically the same thing different abbreviations??
SE WI resident and use mostly Kwik Trip 93 octane fuel with min alcohol content. Have not tested ratio of alcohol but the pumps are labeled "up to 10%". I use a tune that is octane variable as the stock tune is. OAR consistently -.78 (summer blend) to -.90 (winter blend oxygenated) displayed via a BullyDog GTX interface, and a BCB Highlander tune.
Definitely feel a drop in mid to high RPM power with lower octane, but no run issues as it operates very well with the range of 87 to 93 octane. I do get better mileage with 93 by 2 MPG or so recorded over 2 years use, and lose that mileage running winter blend mandated for the 5 county SE WI area. My OAR has never gone positive.
I do feel fuel quality makes a bigger difference with the adjustable octane EB's so I use top tier fuel as much as possible and wile little proof other than 1 change of spark plugs cleaner.
The octane flexibility was odd to get used to as I grew up in the 60's when even 2 barrel carb Pontiacs had 10.5 CR, my 68 Z28 11.5 CR really knocked with under 100 octane and 103-105 octane was common. Interesting and suprised me was the EB 2.7 I own now is quicker than the street preped Z28! Out of a truck with almost 1/2 the displacement and 1000 pounds more weight! KM
I'm jealous! The best we have up here at Kwik Trip is crappy (very crappy) 91 with no ethanol and 88 E15. I've been to Kwik Trips in MN and filled up on their 91 and it's vastly better than the stuff we have in NW WI. Edit: Yes, the OAR and LOR are the same thing as far as I know.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I've been back on my usual 89 E10 for a while now and I still find it amazing how much different the truck feels with the OAR running around 0 instead of +50 to +1.0. It sounds different (less wooshy and more growly, similar to when I tuned my old truck) and the low to mid range torque is noticeably better, even on winter blend. It still amazes me that we pay a 70-80 cent premium for premium fuel here compared to MN where it's 20-30 cents higher and actually worth the expense.
 

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The octane debate, as well as the ethanol debate, are both considerably different when it comes to this twin Turbo direct injection motor.

Before I bought my first Ecoboost, I felt very different about corn and octane. Despised corn, and thought premium was a ripoff.

So different with these trucks. At least in my parts where good 93 is everywhere and easy to access.

This truck is SO different with corn fed 93. It's not hard to notice the difference if you are having fun with the truck.
Admittedly, if just commuting and driving easy, it's no different between the grades. At least I don't notice. But I don't trust myself to go through 36 gallons driving like grandpa. But I do put 87 in "her" Ecoboost truck because she ain't boosting. Ever!

In fact, I drive her truck once a week as a favor to her, if you know what I mean.

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I can see and feel the difference with different octane types in my truck. Also the brand of gas i use makes a difference even if i use 93. I have a 2nd gen 2017 f150 3.5. I read the manual at it says that no special fuel is needed but it also says that they recomend 91 or higher for better performance. I have been burning 93 since i bought my truck and not all brands of gas are the same, i tell you this because if i fill up with 93 at Walmart my truck Will not give me the same mpg and performance that gas from Shell does. I always try to use Shell 93 when possible, if not Chevron also has good gas.
I was in shock the first time i filled up with Shell 93, my cluster said 845 to Empty and i thought once i hit the Highway the numbers are going to drop fast. I **** you not, if i drove 5 miles at 75mph the cluster would just show less 5 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Lol... We don't have Shell or Chevron around here. The best fuel in the area is a Sunoco station with E10 93 octane, but you pay through the nose for any premium fuel in WI. I've seen it for as much as a dollar more per gallon over 87.
 

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Lol... We don't have Shell or Chevron around here. The best fuel in the area is a Sunoco station with E10 93 octane, but you pay through the nose for any premium fuel in WI. I've seen it for as much as a dollar more per gallon over 87.
Yea i got you!
Sunoco is one of the worst gas down here. It's $2.24/gallon at 87 and $2.79/gallon at 93 and still sucks.
Oh well, Time for a Prius?
 
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