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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Water in my OEM CAC (no hole) after 7000 km / drain valve project / BOV pipe removal Ok ?


So last week-end was mild outside @ 5C / 40F and I decided to take a look at my CAC.

I have a Aug-2013 built received in mid-september, so 5 months since with 7000 km / 4350 mi only.

Driving is really mixed city/highway, my girlfriend drive it weekdays and I do on week-end, making it sure to WOT once in a while when engine warm.

But with the cold winter we had, I suspect this water could have been there since fall, as it would remain freeze in this lower portion of the CAC, it would never get really hot the make it evaporate...

Here's the video and pictures

http://1drv.ms/1fnHhYV - Go at 2:00 min to bypass intro and see live water drop from CAC!

Pictures taken 3min after drop... some water was absorbed by cardboard




I forgot to accuratly measure that yellow water, my estimate is 25-30 ml max so not even 1 onze... not bad but I will never feel safe in my head, escially with spring at the door and lots of starting/shutdown near 0C

There was not real sign of liquified oil... just a thin film around the plastic... cleaning inside with a cloth it was minimal.

It also seems the output pipe coupling has grease, like vasoline over it, for an easy install at factory and air tight duct... so maybe that oil film and yellow water are due to that too (not from PCV vapor) ?

Anyway, drilling hole is in my plan... just chicken for warranty if something happens with time, and I got a extra 7yr/160000km powertrain+main componant warranty extension.



I tought of a mini drain valve that could be screw directly in the CAC plastic bottom... The one for Oil Change like Futomo QwikValve or EZ Oil Drain Valve
Fumoto Valve | Qwik Valve™
EZ Oil Drain Valve - Home

The smallest hole and the highest thread pitch would be the best for plastic and it could be hold better with anti-seize and/or a lock nut from inside.

So it would allow you to open the drain as needed and even drive with an ~1-2mm output reductor at the end of the valve. But not being "flush-mount" inside would still allow some water to remain after drain... hum.

Oh and main thing, that won't looks OEM at all and maybe directly void the warranty vs a little and hidden hole :p

Is anybody has successfully install a drain valve on their OEM CAC ?



Last thing, what the heck this BOV is not vented to atmosphere !?!? Extra pressure goes back to intake just after filtration, before boost. I understand this is an emission issue but gosh, extra air pressure should'nt be dirty!!

Anybody as removed the BOV pipe so it will output to air and just block the hole in intake pipe ?

Is this a real BOV that only open during over boost or it also play a role in vacuum cause I don't unfiltred fresh air sucking inside too ?


Comments welcome!
 

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So is an open hole a good idea? Was wondering about this or a drain of some sort myself.
 

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uploadfromtaptalk1393331556322.jpg uploadfromtaptalk1393331609712.jpg uploadfromtaptalk1393331628788.jpg

Some say its a good idea and had good luck. I had some problems lately and preceded to take off my cac, dry as a bone and im in Louisiana.

If it had gunk in it I would have drilled a 1\16 hole in it.
The intercooler is easy to drop if anyone has speculation can drop it.

If you have accumulation of water and gunk I would drill no doubt.

Hope this helps!!!

got to get it!
 

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That's normal I'm a tech at a ford dealer and own this truck as well I have installed catch cans and so far it seems to work great. The reason for the water is that the inter cooler is too efficient. Up in canada there has been some cases of the vehicle not staring due to the water in the inter cooler freezing.
 

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So as a tech would you recommend drilling the intercooler?
 

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I would say no if the vehicle is under warranty. If it's out of warranty you could do what you like. I would install a catch can first.
 

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If the condensation is created in the intercooler as alleged with the intercooler being too efficient, how is a catch can going to aid the situation? Where would the catch can brought inline with the intercooler to remove or extract condensation from the intake charge?

Drilling and tapping a hole in one of the IC end tanks is a risk IMHO. The IC will see 10 to 14 psi conservatively. There's a risk of a leak, venting boost or blowing out the drain plug entirely. Many things would need to come together for his to work as expected. Is the drain plug located where the less than one ounce of water has accumulated. Is the surface flat and wide enough for the hole and drain plug to be installed without compromising the structure of the end tank? Remembering 10 to 14 psi that will be present.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Yeah but PCV vapor condensation can be a lot I guess during winter... I've seen the video of the RX dual catch can with only 400mi being drained of like 8oz of cocktail... ok maybe 90% would have been burn back to engine but still..

And about the drain plug, that was my concern too... so just drilling a 1mm (1/16") hole exactly at the lowest point of the IC seems a better solution... I can even put back a black OEM style screw back in the hole before dealer visit. I know I can void my warranty but that hole can also save me lots of trouble over the years.
 

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The RX system is the only system that addresses the issue causing this to begin with. The reason this accumulates is the OEM PCV system only evacuates the crankcase during idle and low throttle when there is no boost present. As the ecoboost is almost always making some boost when driving, so this allows the unburnt fuel, water, and sulfuric acid that is part of all blow-by (and every engine has some) to accumulate in the crankcase to begin with. Then when the pressure builds, it seeks the path of least resistance and that is out the cleanside tube and into the inlet for the driverside turbo. From there it is forced through the rest of the charge pipes and the intercooler (CAC) where due to the volume of this mix it cools and condenses and accumulates there as well as in the crankcase. The drill mod will allow some of the water to drain/be pushed out from boost, but the "yellow sludge" is to thick to exit the hole as the hole needs to be very small to avoid boost leak. When you go WOT at peak boost, some of this is carried into the intake manifold and causes spark blow-out, and if enough is ingested, can cause hydrolock as liquid wont compress as the piston is trying to and catastrophic failure can result.

So we must first look at the source and cause of this for a proper solution. A catchcan alone will catch some (or if one of the few that do catch all, or nearly all like the RX can) of the mix, but unless it is used along with correcting the PCV systems lack of constant evacuation, it is only part help.

A PCV system that works properly is constantly and steadily evacuating, or removing these compounds as they enter so there is little chance of accumulation, but the Ecoboost (and now the Caddy ATS turbo) systems are very poorly designed and allow these to accumulate and this also contaminates the oil (see "making oil" or "gas smell in oil") resulting in greatly reducing the oils ability to protect the engine internals.

So just adding a can to the existing lines will trap a good amount, and reduce the intake valve coking issues and some of the CAC accumulation, it does not address the cause of it all to begin with.

What the RX system does is it uses the intake manifold vacuum source for evacuation while in non-boost operation, and then taps into the turbo inlets for suction when in boost operation so it converts the PCV system into a properly functioning one and not only traps the mix from being ingested into the intake manifold, it eliminates all the issues caused by the lack of proper evacuation so no more unburnt fuel and water accumulating in the oil OR the CAC. Remember, you want an intercooler to cool as effectively as possible as the intake air charge needs to be cool to contain the proper amount of oxygen molecules. The hotter the charge air, the greater it expands, and less room for oxygen, less power produced, and less MPG as the engine is not running at optimum efficiency.

So, correct the core issue causing all of this, and all the problems go away, and to date, the RX system is the only one that does this.
 

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That's normal I'm a tech at a ford dealer and own this truck as well I have installed catch cans and so far it seems to work great. The reason for the water is that the inter cooler is too efficient. Up in canada there has been some cases of the vehicle not staring due to the water in the inter cooler freezing.
I'm hoping this is not a dumb question. If the OEM intercooler is "too efficient," why are guys spending $1,000 U.S. or more to replace it?
 

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Yeah but PCV vapor condensation can be a lot I guess during winter... I've seen the video of the RX dual catch can with only 400mi being drained of like 8oz of cocktail... ok maybe 90% would have been burn back to engine but still..

And about the drain plug, that was my concern too... so just drilling a 1mm (1/16") hole exactly at the lowest point of the IC seems a better solution... I can even put back a black OEM style screw back in the hole before dealer visit. I know I can void my warranty but that hole can also save me lots of trouble over the years.

Do you have a picture of where you are going to/already drilled this hole at??
 

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What happens with this hole in non-boost conditions? Vacuum would be present. Would it allow debris and other contaminates to enter and be sucked into the engine? No method of filtration has been discussed to this point.

From history, even a pin hole in an air filter can push silicon (dirt) numbers higher on oil analysis.

Would this unmetered air, even though it's a speed density system, cause any issues?
 

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What happens with this hole in non-boost conditions? Vacuum would be present. Would it allow debris and other contaminates to enter and be sucked into the engine? No method of filtration has been discussed to this point.

From history, even a pin hole in an air filter can push silicon (dirt) numbers higher on oil analysis.

Would this unmetered air, even though it's a speed density system, cause any issues?
You'll not see vacuum in your cac.
 

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You'll not see vacuum in your cac.
Does the air path to the throttle body change or route around the intercooler in non-positive pressure situations?

The engine at idle is running, if I put my hand over the both intercooler inlets would the engine keep running or would it die from air starvation?
 

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The RX system is the only system that addresses the issue causing this to begin with. The reason this accumulates is the OEM PCV system only evacuates the crankcase during idle and low throttle when there is no boost present. As the ecoboost is almost always making some boost when driving, so this allows the unburnt fuel, water, and sulfuric acid that is part of all blow-by (and every engine has some) to accumulate in the crankcase to begin with. Then when the pressure builds, it seeks the path of least resistance and that is out the cleanside tube and into the inlet for the driverside turbo. From there it is forced through the rest of the charge pipes and the intercooler (CAC) where due to the volume of this mix it cools and condenses and accumulates there as well as in the crankcase. The drill mod will allow some of the water to drain/be pushed out from boost, but the "yellow sludge" is to thick to exit the hole as the hole needs to be very small to avoid boost leak. When you go WOT at peak boost, some of this is carried into the intake manifold and causes spark blow-out, and if enough is ingested, can cause hydrolock as liquid wont compress as the piston is trying to and catastrophic failure can result.

So we must first look at the source and cause of this for a proper solution. A catchcan alone will catch some (or if one of the few that do catch all, or nearly all like the RX can) of the mix, but unless it is used along with correcting the PCV systems lack of constant evacuation, it is only part help.

A PCV system that works properly is constantly and steadily evacuating, or removing these compounds as they enter so there is little chance of accumulation, but the Ecoboost (and now the Caddy ATS turbo) systems are very poorly designed and allow these to accumulate and this also contaminates the oil (see "making oil" or "gas smell in oil") resulting in greatly reducing the oils ability to protect the engine internals.

So just adding a can to the existing lines will trap a good amount, and reduce the intake valve coking issues and some of the CAC accumulation, it does not address the cause of it all to begin with.

What the RX system does is it uses the intake manifold vacuum source for evacuation while in non-boost operation, and then taps into the turbo inlets for suction when in boost operation so it converts the PCV system into a properly functioning one and not only traps the mix from being ingested into the intake manifold, it eliminates all the issues caused by the lack of proper evacuation so no more unburnt fuel and water accumulating in the oil OR the CAC. Remember, you want an intercooler to cool as effectively as possible as the intake air charge needs to be cool to contain the proper amount of oxygen molecules. The hotter the charge air, the greater it expands, and less room for oxygen, less power produced, and less MPG as the engine is not running at optimum efficiency.

So, correct the core issue causing all of this, and all the problems go away, and to date, the RX system is the only one that does this.
Not only do water molecules entering the combustion chamber NOT compress, they quickly convert to STEAM once reaching >230F combustion chamber during the intake stroke.

What is it, why is it, that you think the PCV doesn't continue to evacuate crankcase gasses during boost operations?

http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/31-f150-ecoboost-problems/3824-ford-ecoboost-pcv-explanation.html
 

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Not only do water molecules entering the combustion chamber NOT compress, they quickly convert to STEAM once reaching >230F combustion chamber during the intake stroke.

What is it, why is it, that you think the PCV doesn't continue to evacuate crankcase gasses during boost operations?
Where I'm from steam happens at 212...
 

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Yhea not to use one, no moisture or oily film in mine after 7000k, hmmmm why is that?
Not going to get into the whole tuner boost thing again, said my piece.
Just tired of seeing RX CATCH CAN pushed so dam hard all over the forum.
It's like if he didn't push them so hard they wouldn't sell, hmmmm.
Don't see any of the other sponsors pushing like him.
 

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