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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Gotcha!

No this is not gunna be about which brand oil you should use. Instead I just wanted to type out some thoughts I have accumulated lately while spending some time over at Bobistheoilguy.com. There are a few things that you can look for to help decide which oil you should be using and when.

HTHS:

This seems to be one of the most important aspects in terms of engine wear according to the folks a BITOG. It is not the only aspect, but an important one.

High Temperature/High Shear is a test that is performed with the oil at 150°C. When the oil gets shoved into an extreme environment, such as a bearing on the crank or between the piston rings and cylinder wall, it gets exposed to extreme heat(much higher than the average oil temp of the motor) and forces. Because of this the oil can actually shear. HTHS is a measurement of how durable the oil is in this environment. The higher the HTHS, the "stronger" the oil is and the better it can do keeping metal parts from touching in the high temp/high shear state.

Conversely, lower HTHS means the oil is easier to pump through the bearings and reduces the drag on the bearing. In the Government's never ending quest to reduce fuel consumption, oils have headed towards lower and lower HTHS values. This is why we see 0W-20 and even 0W-16 now. Lower HTHS means the engine has less internal friction.

According to some testing reports I've seen thrown around BITOG, an HTHS of 2.6 is the absolute minimum you would want before you start running into issues with the oil not protecting bearings and piston rings at higher RPM. 0W-20's tends to be high 2's. 0W and 5W-30s tend to be low 3's.

One last note, HTHS is more critical at high RPM. This is why Ford is spec'ing 5W-50 oils in engines like the Ford GT, Mustang High Perf 2.3, and Mustang GT with the track pack. It's expected those cars get run hard at high RPM where the oil will be hot and will be dealing with very fast moving parts. You need a high HTHS value to keep those parts separated.

So basically, if you abuse your truck and run high RPM a lot. You may wanna consider a higher HTHS oil than the typical SN+ or SP rated 5W-30.

HTHS vs Oil Weight:

It might seem logically that HTHS and Oil Weight are directly related, but this is not always true. In general, it is. A 0W-20 will probably have a lower HTHS than a 5W-30, which is probably lower than a 15W-40 and so on, but weight and HTHS are not 100% related.

In other words, not all 5W-30's are the same. An API SN+ or SP 5W-30 cannot have an HTHS >3.5 per the API standard and are generally in the low 3's. Meanwhile, our friends in Europe specify that their ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 rated 5W-30's cannot have an HTHS <3.5. So when someone says they use a Euro oil in their car, that actually does mean something. Its not just a marketing thing. The Euro oils generally run a higher HTHS for the same weight.

ACEA A5/B5 runs HTHS ≥ 2.9 to ≤ 3.5 similar to API.

Examples:

-Amsoil Signature Series: These are SP rated oils so they are limited in HTHS like all the rest:

170803

You can see all of the 30 weight oils are ~3.1 and the 20 weights at ~2.7

-Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 is a Euro formula oil meeting ACEA C3 and HTHS is 3.5.

170804


One thing to note is that a ACEA A3/B3/C3 wont meet API SN+ or SP due to the diverging HTHS requirements. They likely will not meet the Ford spec either. You cannot have both since the spec's don't allow overlap of some things.

NOACK:

This is a measurement of how willing the oil is to evaporate at higher temperatures. This is important, particularly for us doofuses with the direct injection only motors, because it means more stuff will get sucked out through the PCV if you have a higher NOACK.

It also is important because the lighter weight components are the ones evaporating and so the oil will thicken over time. This is why you might see your MPG's drop as your oil gets closer to needing to be changed. The engine is working harder to pump the thicker oil.

In this case, lighter oils and oils with a larger cold/hot weight spread will have a greater NOACK. We can look at the Amsoil sheet again to show this:

170805


It is particularly apparent in the 30 weight oils. 0W-30 has more than double the NOACK volatility of the 10W-30. I did mention that lighter oils should have higher NOACK yet the 5W-20 is better than the 5W-30. This is because the 5W-20 is such a small spread from 5 weight to 20 weight. Amsoil is also not a good example here because amsoil is a PAO based oil, meaning its a true full-syn, and therefore does not need as many modifiers to change the weight of the oil at low temperatures. So something like a 5W-20 may have little to no modifiers to make it 5 weight at low temps which results in a lower NOACK than the 5W-30 and its larger spread.

Crude based oils that are not true synthetics(but may be labeled as full-syn) will struggle with this a bit more as they require more modifiers to get them to a lower cold weight.

It is becoming more difficult to get manufacturers to publish the NOACK. Amsoil is very good and so are many of the high end Mobil oils.

VII:
Viscosity Index Improvers. This is the stuff they put in the oil to help it be a light weight oil when cold and a heavier weight oil when warm. It helps the oil be the 0 in a 0W-30.
VII's are a sacrifice that is made to lower the weight of the oil when cold to make sure the engine can be cold started and to improve efficiency while the engine is not up to temp. You want less VII if you can get it because VII causes things like higher NOACK.

I alluded to the fact that actual synthetic oils(that use a synesthetic base stock) are better in this regard because the POA stocks are naturally better at being lighter when cold. Therefore less VII is added to make them work. This is why you see the 10W-30 Amsoil with almost no NOACK because its viscosity index is low and probably needs almost no VII's to help it out. Thus is doesn't evaporate.

Additionally, the smaller the spread of an oils weight range, the less VII's it needs. A 10W-30 will need less modification of the base oil than a 0W-30.

LSPI:

The oil based LSPI issue is a result of certain elements put into the oil, particularly Calcium(CA). The recent API SN+ and SP standards are making a push towards reducing calcium load in the oil to help with LSPI.

You won't find out how much calcium is in an oil from a data sheet. You really need a virgin oil analysis(VOA) for that. But in general, an SN+ or SP oil will be very low in CA.

Chances are someone wants to run Rotella T6 5W-40 in their Ecoboost because it has a cult following. It used to be ok to run Rotella T6 in a gas car because it used to carry a API SM certification along with its API CJ-4 diesel cert. However, since API SN+ and SP have come out, Rotella T6 is not longer gasoline recommended. Why? Calcium most likely. Rotella T6 CJ-4(old stuff) on the left column, CK-4 current on the right.

170806



On an SP rated fluid the CA is usually around 1000 or Less. Here is Quaker State Ultimate Durability SN+ formulation:

170807


So while the T6 is a fantastic oil, the current version its not good in a modern GTDI motor.

This is all I feel like typing for now.

Amsoil is nice because they put all the important specs for all of their oils right on one datasheet to compare. So if i was going to run Amsoil and had to pick one of the 30 weights right now, I would be using the 10W-30 all day long. The HTHS is ok, the NOACK is amazing, and the oil is likely very good for LSPI. The 0W-40 might be better if you are interested in a higher HTHS but you sacrifice NOACK due to the huge spread in weight.

If you are interested in a higher HTHS off the shelf 5W-30, one of the Euro oils is probably your best bet. Pennzoil Plati Euro L is ACEA C3 and can be had at walmart for $22 per 5 quart jug.
 

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From my understanding, which is admittedly someone else's expertise, that Amsoil 0-40 is a sweet spot for using a 3.5 Ecoboost like it's your mule.

I suspect some of that fancy science posted above would support that opinion on paper?

Don't really matter too too much to me since putting the stuff in the motor makes my truck guys happy. If they are happy, and the truck seems happy, I'm happy.

Never thought I'd ever do a coldstart in single digits, like recently. Truck didn't complain as far as I could tell

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Discussion Starter #3
From my understanding, which is admittedly someone else's expertise, that Amsoil 0-40 is a sweet spot for using a 3.5 Ecoboost like it's your mule.

I suspect some of that fancy science posted above would support that opinion on paper?

Don't really matter too too much to me since putting the stuff in the motor makes my truck guys happy. If they are happy, and the truck seems happy, I'm happy.

Never thought I'd ever do a coldstart in single digits, like recently. Truck didn't complain as far as I could tell

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Either that or they have their Euro 5W-30 with a higher HTHS:

170808


The HTHS is close to that of the 0W-40 but the NOACK is better and the Viscosity is lower both cold and hot.
 
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I have posted some of these stats to explain why Amsoil is best in past and people just skipped over lol. I beleive Noack is most important on turbo charged engines IMO.

Amsoil SS 5-30 overall is just killer with its stats. Independently approved by Project Farm!
 

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Just took all this effort and energy to get on here and say this - BORING !
 

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Lol
That's because you have nothing to learn.
It happens. It's not a bad thing. It's just not your thing. You Ole Motorcraft coot.

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Gotcha!

No this is not gunna be about which brand oil you should use. Instead I just wanted to type out some thoughts I have accumulated lately while spending some time over at Bobistheoilguy.com. There are a few things that you can look for to help decide which oil you should be using and when.

HTHS:

This seems to be one of the most important aspects in terms of engine wear according to the folks a BITOG. It is not the only aspect, but an important one.

High Temperature/High Shear is a test that is performed with the oil at 150°C. When the oil gets shoved into an extreme environment, such as a bearing on the crank or between the piston rings and cylinder wall, it gets exposed to extreme heat(much higher than the average oil temp of the motor) and forces. Because of this the oil can actually shear. HTHS is a measurement of how durable the oil is in this environment. The higher the HTHS, the "stronger" the oil is and the better it can do keeping metal parts from touching in the high temp/high shear state.

Conversely, lower HTHS means the oil is easier to pump through the bearings and reduces the drag on the bearing. In the Government's never ending quest to reduce fuel consumption, oils have headed towards lower and lower HTHS values. This is why we see 0W-20 and even 0W-16 now. Lower HTHS means the engine has less internal friction.

According to some testing reports I've seen thrown around BITOG, an HTHS of 2.6 is the absolute minimum you would want before you start running into issues with the oil not protecting bearings and piston rings at higher RPM. 0W-20's tends to be high 2's. 0W and 5W-30s tend to be low 3's.

One last note, HTHS is more critical at high RPM. This is why Ford is spec'ing 5W-50 oils in engines like the Ford GT, Mustang High Perf 2.3, and Mustang GT with the track pack. It's expected those cars get run hard at high RPM where the oil will be hot and will be dealing with very fast moving parts. You need a high HTHS value to keep those parts separated.

So basically, if you abuse your truck and run high RPM a lot. You may wanna consider a higher HTHS oil than the typical SN+ or SP rated 5W-30.

HTHS vs Oil Weight:

It might seem logically that HTHS and Oil Weight are directly related, but this is not always true. In general, it is. A 0W-20 will probably have a lower HTHS than a 5W-30, which is probably lower than a 15W-40 and so on, but weight and HTHS are not 100% related.

In other words, not all 5W-30's are the same. An API SN+ or SP 5W-30 cannot have an HTHS >3.5 per the API standard and are generally in the low 3's. Meanwhile, our friends in Europe specify that their ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 rated 5W-30's cannot have an HTHS <3.5. So when someone says they use a Euro oil in their car, that actually does mean something. Its not just a marketing thing. The Euro oils generally run a higher HTHS for the same weight.

ACEA A5/B5 runs HTHS ≥ 2.9 to ≤ 3.5 similar to API.

Examples:

-Amsoil Signature Series: These are SP rated oils so they are limited in HTHS like all the rest:

View attachment 170803
You can see all of the 30 weight oils are ~3.1 and the 20 weights at ~2.7

-Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 is a Euro formula oil meeting ACEA C3 and HTHS is 3.5.

View attachment 170804

One thing to note is that a ACEA A3/B3/C3 wont meet API SN+ or SP due to the diverging HTHS requirements. They likely will not meet the Ford spec either. You cannot have both since the spec's don't allow overlap of some things.

NOACK:

This is a measurement of how willing the oil is to evaporate at higher temperatures. This is important, particularly for us doofuses with the direct injection only motors, because it means more stuff will get sucked out through the PCV if you have a higher NOACK.

It also is important because the lighter weight components are the ones evaporating and so the oil will thicken over time. This is why you might see your MPG's drop as your oil gets closer to needing to be changed. The engine is working harder to pump the thicker oil.

In this case, lighter oils and oils with a larger cold/hot weight spread will have a greater NOACK. We can look at the Amsoil sheet again to show this:

View attachment 170805

It is particularly apparent in the 30 weight oils. 0W-30 has more than double the NOACK volatility of the 10W-30. I did mention that lighter oils should have higher NOACK yet the 5W-20 is better than the 5W-30. This is because the 5W-20 is such a small spread from 5 weight to 20 weight. Amsoil is also not a good example here because amsoil is a PAO based oil, meaning its a true full-syn, and therefore does not need as many modifiers to change the weight of the oil at low temperatures. So something like a 5W-20 may have little to no modifiers to make it 5 weight at low temps which results in a lower NOACK than the 5W-30 and its larger spread.

Crude based oils that are not true synthetics(but may be labeled as full-syn) will struggle with this a bit more as they require more modifiers to get them to a lower cold weight.

It is becoming more difficult to get manufacturers to publish the NOACK. Amsoil is very good and so are many of the high end Mobil oils.

LSPI:

The oil based LSPI issue is a result of certain elements put into the oil, particularly Calcium(CA). The recent API SN+ and SP standards are making a push towards reducing calcium load in the oil to help with LSPI.

You won't find out how much calcium is in an oil from a data sheet. You really need a virgin oil analysis(VOA) for that. But in general, an SN+ or SP oil will be very low in CA.

Chances are someone wants to run Rotella T6 5W-40 in their Ecoboost because it has a cult following. It used to be ok to run Rotella T6 in a gas car because it used to carry a API SM certification along with its API CJ-4 diesel cert. However, since API SN+ and SP have come out, Rotella T6 is not longer gasoline recommended. Why? Calcium most likely. Rotella T6 CJ-4(old stuff) on the left column, CK-4 current on the right.

View attachment 170806


On an SP rated fluid the CA is usually around 1000 or Less. Here is Quaker State Ultimate Durability SN+ formulation:

View attachment 170807

So while the T6 is a fantastic oil, the current version its not good in a modern GTDI motor.

This is all I feel like typing for now.

Amsoil is nice because they put all the important specs for all of their oils right on one datasheet to compare. So if i was going to run Amsoil and had to pick one of the 30 weights right now, I would be using the 10W-30 all day long. The HTHS is ok, the NOACK is amazing, and the oil is likely very good for LSPI. The 0W-40 might be better if you are interested in a higher HTHS but you sacrifice NOACK due to the huge spread in weight.

If you are interested in a higher HTHS off the shelf 5W-30, one of the Euro oils is probably your best bet. Pennzoil Plati Euro L is ACEA C3 and can be had at walmart for $22 per 5 quart jug.
What would you use in my 2.7 if you were me? I never tow, and I use 91 fuel, kind of a more of a performance setup. I change it every 3000 miles, and I have been using Valvoline 5w30
 

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I’ve been using Kendall gt-1 full synthetic 5w30 with LiquiTek since the first change (1,600 miles) in my 2020 2.7. It’s a GF6 oil meeting SP specs and all of Ford specifications. My dad used Kendall, my sons use it, and I’ve used it for 50 years.
Of course, now it’s made by Phillips 66, and is similar to Phillips 66 Shield and Motorcraft oils. I’ve had no issues with engine rattling or starting in -6 degree weather. I do use motorcraft oil filters exclusively.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
What would you use in my 2.7 if you were me? I never tow, and I use 91 fuel, kind of a more of a performance setup. I change it every 3000 miles, and I have been using Valvoline 5w30
Honestly, Supertech 5W-30 or 10W-30 Full Synthetic is what I would go with if I were you. I don't really know that actual specs on it since they are not published, but it was one of the first API SP rated oils available. Its a good oil and cost ~$3 a quart.

You are just dumping money down the drain to use anything more expensive at 3k OCI's. But do whatever makes you happy.

I am even on the fence about using Supertech 10W-30 in my truck, and my truck gets WORKED. I could change supertech 4x before it costs as much as amsoil or one of the other ultra premium brands.

The only reason I think I would go to a more expensive oil anymore is to get the higher HTHS, which you wont get with any API SN+ or SP simply because the standard doesnt allow for it. Then you might think about a Euro oil like I mentioned or a 0W/5W-40. But you only really need this if you are gunna running high RPM's a lot and getting your oil super hot. A stop light drag here or there won't do that.
 
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I don't know if it's exactly throwing money down the drain. :)

I can live on hamburger, but might enjoy a little steak. The co$t is either worth it to me or not. But it is true that the ingredients are identical.

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"What would you use in my 2.7 if you were me? I never tow, and I use 91 fuel, kind of a more of a performance setup. I change it every 3000 miles, and I have been using
Valvoline 5w30"

Got my own thoughts on brands, but can't argue with any quality brand, only against switching brands due to conflicting additive packages. Keep on keeping on! Just my own thoughts, and I am an Amsoil Signature 5w-30 user. KM
 
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What would you use in my 2.7 if you were me? I never tow, and I use 91 fuel, kind of a more of a performance setup. I change it every 3000 miles, and I have been using Valvoline 5w30
I would just stick with the Valvoline. Its honestly a great oil. I only run the Advanced full synthetic version. Personally love it and my raptor loves it. That truck is at the desert every weekend getting ripped on. I change every 3000 as well.

Im not a fan of their “modern engine” version.
 

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Agreed...Valvoline is a super quality oil and has been around forever. If I wasn't using Kendall, Valvoline would be the stuff I'd use.

I changed oil at 1,600 miles, 4,700 miles and I'll do it again at 7,500. Overkill??? Probably, but cheaper than a new engine. I've never had a turbocharged gas engine, and I don't want any dirty oil clogging them up...haha.

There is just too much hi-tech stuff on the ecoboost engines to worry about a few dollars for oil. Plus, I do it myself, as I don't trust some of the oil jockeys at the quick change places. So, the cost is about $30-35 with the filter. I get the Kendall for about $5.00 per quart with shipping and about $4.00 for the motorcraft filter. Plus, at my age, it's about one of the few fun car things I can still do....hahahah

If a new 2.7 motor costs, say, $6,000, I can do 171 oil changes for that money. At 3,000 miles per change, I can go over 1/2 a million miles and still be money ahead!! Of course, those folks that go 6,000 miles between changes can go over a million miles. But, I bet my engine would be cleaner inside....silly...huh??? hahahahha
 

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I would just stick with the Valvoline. Its honestly a great oil. I only run the Advanced full synthetic version. Personally love it and my raptor loves it. That truck is at the desert every weekend getting ripped on. I change every 3000 as well.

Im not a fan of their “modern engine” version.
I use the Advanced Full synthetic too. Reason I do 3000 miles is because I had a freak thing with a 2012 3.5 eco that I had and whoever had the truck before me must have never changed the oil and it had so much sludge, the dealer or the repair shop who took the valve covers off had never seen that much sludge. It was like big flakey pieces just caked onto everything. So now I change my oil every 3000, and even at 3000 the oil is still quite dirty.
 

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Agreed...Valvoline is a super quality oil and has been around forever. If I wasn't using Kendall, Valvoline would be the stuff I'd use.

I changed oil at 1,600 miles, 4,700 miles and I'll do it again at 7,500. Overkill??? Probably, but cheaper than a new engine. I've never had a turbocharged gas engine, and I don't want any dirty oil clogging them up...haha.

There is just too much hi-tech stuff on the ecoboost engines to worry about a few dollars for oil. Plus, I do it myself, as I don't trust some of the oil jockeys at the quick change places. So, the cost is about $30-35 with the filter. I get the Kendall for about $5.00 per quart with shipping and about $4.00 for the motorcraft filter. Plus, at my age, it's about one of the few fun car things I can still do....hahahah

If a new 2.7 motor costs, say, $6,000, I can do 171 oil changes for that money. At 3,000 miles per change, I can go over 1/2 a million miles and still be money ahead!! Of course, those folks that go 6,000 miles between changes can go over a million miles. But, I bet my engine would be cleaner inside....silly...huh??? hahahahha
No, I agree with you, I think 3000 miles is a good number. I want to keep my engine as clean as possible. I’ve got a catch can too, and reason being like I just said in the post before this, was my 2012 3.5 I had before this 2.7, and man was it cooked, I’ll have to put a picture up.
Here’s my 2012 3.5 Ecoboosts engine. I had it for only 3 months after buying from the dealer. Had 154k miles on it.
170829
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Like i said, do whatever you want.

This thread was not meant to be about what specific brand to use. It was to help people decide what oil to use on their own and some key specs to look for.
 

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No, I agree with you, I think 3000 miles is a good number. I want to keep my engine as clean as possible. I’ve got a catch can too, and reason being like I just said in the post before this, was my 2012 3.5 I had before this 2.7, and man was it cooked, I’ll have to put a picture up.
Here’s my 2012 3.5 Ecoboosts engine. I had it for only 3 months after buying from the dealer. Had 154k miles on it. View attachment 170829
Man that hurts to see. This was taken at 160-170,000 miles on my 2011. Owned it since day one.
170834
170835
 

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Clean and pretty. What brand of oil did you use?? How often did you change it?? Any engine issues???
 
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