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[h=1]XDI-HPFP-Installation F150[/h]
 

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The problem is with the 35% according to this facebook page, you can only run e85 on stock tune or lower boost. It will not support more boost.

I have not seen any testing on if it helps the fuel rail pressure dip i was asking rbrown about....and hes the only guy on here i know of using these right now. If it fixed this, it would be safe to run a little more boost.

If we can make 400-450 on gt turbo on stock hpfp and be safe fueling, i dont see a point to this pump any longer.
 

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I did run full E85 on the 35% HPFP. If you work the wastegate table to bring boost out later in the RPM, you can run around 17-18 psi and more timing using E85. I was able to make around 400whp at 17 psi with 14* and I know it would have taken more timing but I ran out of time testing. However, you are correct, down low the 35 suffers the same fate as the stock pump with issues pumping enough fuel to support higher boost, and we know most tunes make quite a bit of boost right on the initial hit.
 

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@WooBoost its going to take cams to fix what you talking about...

Everyone that was pushing to get people to buy them (ie get others to be the Guinea pigs) stopped talking about them when they realized that even with the 60% pump, you are just fighting a system at its limits in that low rpm area where the ecoboost shines.
 

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[h=1]XDI-HPFP-Installation F150[/h]
[/

Not being a D. But dude why post this now when your a coyote owner. I’m very confused. I get the other posts but not this. The link comes in the instructions when customers by the pump from a Dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
XDI-HPFP-Installation F150

[/

Not being a D. But dude why post this now when your a coyote owner. I’m very confused. I get the other posts but not this. The link comes in the instructions when customers by the pump from a Dealer.
Isn't this the place to post videos like this?
 

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I did run full E85 on the 35% HPFP. If you work the wastegate table to bring boost out later in the RPM, you can run around 17-18 psi and more timing using E85. I was able to make around 400whp at 17 psi with 14* and I know it would have taken more timing but I ran out of time testing. However, you are correct, down low the 35 suffers the same fate as the stock pump with issues pumping enough fuel to support higher boost, and we know most tunes make quite a bit of boost right on the initial hit.
UWE on his page was only testing the 35% pump on stock tune last time I looked on e85. His claim was it will save owners money, however we know e85 gets far worse MPG. It's only benefit is using as race gas type aka more power, not DD.

You're saying the 35% suffers down low like stock pump....on pump gas or e85?
 

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UWE on his page was only testing the 35% pump on stock tune last time I looked on e85. His claim was it will save owners money, however we know e85 gets far worse MPG. It's only benefit is using as race gas type aka more power, not DD.

You're saying the 35% suffers down low like stock pump....on pump gas or e85?
Dude you need to just buy a pump already. PM me for pricing
 

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Dude you need to just buy a pump already. PM me for pricing
lol. It's just so many factors this is why I like to see others sort out the BS first. a pump and turbos cost the same. Turbos will provide a lot more pleasure and power, however i would need a shop to do it($$) bc im not in a location currently I can do work like that myself (although I am capable) on the other hand the pump is easier to install than changing spark plugs. To run e85 in even stock boost or mess with tables for a little more boost (menmtioned above) would require a dyno tune, turbos would as well. So if I got a pump, it would only be for 93 and bumping boost some bc i dont have a want for dyno tune unless turbos. On top of all this I commute to work everyday in traffic and a few times a month I drive a couple hundred miles away. Turbos would favor this, bc if i am going to be running 93 on turbos and pump for the benefits of each, why only get a little hp on the pump when turbos give a lot more power. On top of all that, do I even need any of those? Maybe just run 87 always bc DD. This is all the **** that goes through my head.
 

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lol. It's just so many factors this is why I like to see others sort out the BS first. a pump and turbos cost the same. Turbos will provide a lot more pleasure and power, however i would need a shop to do it($$) bc im not in a location currently I can do work like that myself (although I am capable) on the other hand the pump is easier to install than changing spark plugs. To run e85 in even stock boost or mess with tables for a little more boost (menmtioned above) would require a dyno tune, turbos would as well. So if I got a pump, it would only be for 93 and bumping boost some bc i dont have a want for dyno tune unless turbos. On top of all this I commute to work everyday in traffic and a few times a month I drive a couple hundred miles away. Turbos would favor this, bc if i am going to be running 93 on turbos and pump for the benefits of each, why only get a little hp on the pump when turbos give a lot more power. On top of all that, do I even need any of those? Maybe just run 87 always bc DD. This is all the **** that goes through my head.

Haha. I KNOW what you mean. As I've gotten older, I have learned to turn it off when I suddenly realize I'm bouncing all over the place.
Or put another way, I just allow myself to make LESS than the best decisions. At least that way I actually make one. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
lol. It's just so many factors this is why I like to see others sort out the BS first. a pump and turbos cost the same. Turbos will provide a lot more pleasure and power, however i would need a shop to do it($$) bc im not in a location currently I can do work like that myself (although I am capable) on the other hand the pump is easier to install than changing spark plugs. To run e85 in even stock boost or mess with tables for a little more boost (menmtioned above) would require a dyno tune, turbos would as well. So if I got a pump, it would only be for 93 and bumping boost some bc i dont have a want for dyno tune unless turbos. On top of all this I commute to work everyday in traffic and a few times a month I drive a couple hundred miles away. Turbos would favor this, bc if i am going to be running 93 on turbos and pump for the benefits of each, why only get a little hp on the pump when turbos give a lot more power. On top of all that, do I even need any of those? Maybe just run 87 always bc DD. This is all the **** that goes through my head.
It would be fun for me to watch you buy either of those two items.

Why let someone else test it when you can.
 

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I dont think theres any testing. The pump will allow me to run more boost on stock turbo bc fuel rail pressure should keep up and not dip.

Turbo just get dyno tune, already been proven with right tuner. I just dont want to pay for installation.
 

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I dont think theres any testing. The pump will allow me to run more boost on stock turbo bc fuel rail pressure should keep up and not dip.

Turbo just get dyno tune, already been proven with right tuner. I just dont want to pay for installation.
i agree about the turbos, not the hpfp.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The 35 dips, the 60 dips.

You need cams to fix that dip.
 

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I havent seen proof yet. its not supposed to bc it flows more fuel. I have been waiting to see testing. They have done a lot more testing so i should call people.
 

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UWE on his page was only testing the 35% pump on stock tune last time I looked on e85. His claim was it will save owners money, however we know e85 gets far worse MPG. It's only benefit is using as race gas type aka more power, not DD.

You're saying the 35% suffers down low like stock pump....on pump gas or e85?
It suffers down low on E85. On pump I have not had any issues and it performs as needed however I usually get about 18psi on the hit. I havent ran it on my tune that makes 20+ on the hit, since I dont really like hitting 20+ anymore :).

I'll post some e85 logs I have with it. Up top it was able to do its job no problem, but down low there were large deviations in Actual HPFP vs Commanded HPFP. This was on corn.
 

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on stock pump, I only run 16psi, after that fuel rail pressure dips at low rpm but makes it up, up top. At more boost, it make it ok up top, but has the dip down low obviously. So i only run 16. IN theory, if this 35 pump flows more fuel, i could run 19 or whatever without a dip.
 

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Its not only about the fact that it can "flow more fuel". The other problem is that down low the cam is not moving as fast and does not pump the HPFP fast enough to maintain PRESSURE. The FUEL is there, as evident by the fact that the air fuel ratio will still be good, but this is because the injectors will open up a lot when the fuel pressure dips (high pulsewidth). So basically when your HPFP "dips", its not able to maintain pressure commanded (2200 or so PSI) because its not being pump fast enough and the air mass entering the engine at that engine speed requires a lot of fuel to reach a proper air fuel. The injectors open up a lot to give you the fuel, but at a lower pressure.

This is not ideal, because we want the high pressure for many reasons, suppress detonation, better homogenization of the mixture, cooling the chamber, etc. However at least the injectors can open up that much to get the fuel you need instead of going lean.

This also depends a lot on what the WOT air fuel (lambda from here on out) being commanded is. Just leaning it out a little in the earlier RPM can help maintain better pressure down low. Many tunes try to go super rich too quickly and that changes a lot about how the HPFP can keep up.

Also:
I just recently put a "hot" tune on another 13-14 truck. Guy wanted a "kill tune". I've used this particular tune on my truck before I had the 35-HPFP, and it runs around 20 psi of boost and comes on strong down low. On my truck, I did not have a large deviation in HPFP pressure with the stock pump, however this truck couldnt take it.

Speaking with a few colleagues, I found out that apparently there are a few revisions to the stock HPFP from our Gen 1 3.5 Eco's. One colleague has a pretty hot tune of his own he uses and does these trucks regularly and he said that out of ever 4 or 5 he does, one truck will have trouble with the stock HPFP keeping up, on the SAME tune. He thinks that there are some decent variances from stock pump to stock pump and based on his findings it seems to be true. Sounds like some trucks stock HPFP's are better than others from the factory. Maybe a tolerance or QC issue. Maybe its all BS. I do trust a lot of what he tells me though and he's not one to BS.
 

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So from what I gathered from you, the 35% pump will not help the dip and this is only fixed by tuning?

I was under the impression b what explained to me that the flow is what causing the dip, since this flows better it can provide fuel better.

Let me ask you this, would the dip cause lamda to not be met? If lamda is still being met WOT with the dip, this is still a "safe" situation or no?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Its not only about the fact that it can "flow more fuel". The other problem is that down low the cam is not moving as fast and does not pump the HPFP fast enough to maintain PRESSURE. The FUEL is there, as evident by the fact that the air fuel ratio will still be good, but this is because the injectors will open up a lot when the fuel pressure dips (high pulsewidth). So basically when your HPFP "dips", its not able to maintain pressure commanded (2200 or so PSI) because its not being pump fast enough and the air mass entering the engine at that engine speed requires a lot of fuel to reach a proper air fuel. The injectors open up a lot to give you the fuel, but at a lower pressure.

This is not ideal, because we want the high pressure for many reasons, suppress detonation, better homogenization of the mixture, cooling the chamber, etc. However at least the injectors can open up that much to get the fuel you need instead of going lean.

This also depends a lot on what the WOT air fuel (lambda from here on out) being commanded is. Just leaning it out a little in the earlier RPM can help maintain better pressure down low. Many tunes try to go super rich too quickly and that changes a lot about how the HPFP can keep up.

Also:
I just recently put a "hot" tune on another 13-14 truck. Guy wanted a "kill tune". I've used this particular tune on my truck before I had the 35-HPFP, and it runs around 20 psi of boost and comes on strong down low. On my truck, I did not have a large deviation in HPFP pressure with the stock pump, however this truck couldnt take it.

Speaking with a few colleagues, I found out that apparently there are a few revisions to the stock HPFP from our Gen 1 3.5 Eco's. One colleague has a pretty hot tune of his own he uses and does these trucks regularly and he said that out of ever 4 or 5 he does, one truck will have trouble with the stock HPFP keeping up, on the SAME tune. He thinks that there are some decent variances from stock pump to stock pump and based on his findings it seems to be true. Sounds like some trucks stock HPFP's are better than others from the factory. Maybe a tolerance or QC issue. Maybe its all BS. I do trust a lot of what he tells me though and he's not one to BS.
Funny how commanding a reasonable .820 instead of .780 can help extend the range of the stock hpfp to the limits of the stock turbos...

total side note: if someone was runing a stock hpfp that seemed "weak", you could buy a brand new stock HPFP for cheap and see where that takes you before spending $1800 on one of these.
 
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