Ok so some may know about this some may not but it is something that is coming on strong with many showings at dealerships across America. So as most know it is timing chains that are prematurely stretching causing this startup noise. The news is that there is updated parts out there to address this and Ford now has a TSB on this issue formally admitting to it being a common problem. I go over it all in this video. There is also a link to just how it sounds in the description of the video on youtube. Hopefully more dealers will be willing to dive into the engine with some guidance from Ford now.
Ford F150 3.5L Ecoboost Rattle Upon Start Up- Timing Chain Stretch Issues TSB
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makuloco2000
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This issue has me scratching my head a little. I have always done my own oil changes with either royal purple or Mobil 1 oil. While using a Mobil 1 oil filter I was getting the dreaded rattle on cold starts... Not everytime but enough to make me notice. The last 3 oil changes I have used the factory Ford oil filter and have not had a single rattle on start up since. Is it just coincidence? My truck is a 13 with 57000 km, tuned for most of them my LET and MPT, UPR dual valve catch can since new and S&B intake.
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I'd be interested to hear any thoughts on this as well. I'm a mobile 1 filter user M-212 but am not particularly tied to it. If there are some checkvalve differences or something I'd certainly be willing to try a different (or OEM) filter to stave off the dreaded clickity clackity beast. Like above poster I've had 6 rattles in the last year of ownership but I can't confidently say its getting more frequent.
Well, Its now been a month and a half saga. Total count 7 rentals/loaners (some have been hilarious, like the Fort Transit van). My current status/issue - all 4 VCT's replaced, new chain, belt, water pump, gasket kits, new cams, sprockets, and a bucket of additional parts. I drove it home the first day of getting it back & it sounded great. By the time I got hit home it was ticking loudly. (note, prior to taking it in i had no tick, only startup rattle). They took it back, had it 2 days later, sounded great, got home, same loud tick. They took it back. Had it a day and a half and agree there was an issue but could not find it. I was going out of town and needed a big vehicle, so the dealer did put me up in a '16 expedition.
I picked the truck up on monday. They stated the cam followers were out of spec. I drove it a couple of days (quietly) but now I hear things. Its hard to tell how paranoid I'm being at this point. GTDI is loud, but how loud is normal is still my question. Three things are now of concern.
1. At neutral idle it seems okay. At idle in gear with my foot on the brake, I hear a tick again. Sounds like from the same spot in the top end, front passenger side above the alt. I put it from D or R into N/P and it stops. this is NOT the HPFP. I get the RPM's over a grand and it stops. ANY IDEAS?
2. At idle in N/P, every so often I feel a little shake in the truck. I can see the RPM's raise/lower a couple hundred. No A/C on. No extra battery load. Fan may be on or off.
3. At around the rear drivers door standing outside I could here pressure and a "glug glug glug". It sounded to me just like an exhaust leak. I noticed water dripping from each end of the cat. Honestly I didnt know this had weep holes in it, so I suppose this is normal. It does seem to have significant pressure coming from those two small holes, enough I can hear the air. I dont have any sensors/lights indicating an issue, but now I almost wonder if there's a blockage or some kind of back pressure issue.
I picked the truck up on monday. They stated the cam followers were out of spec. I drove it a couple of days (quietly) but now I hear things. Its hard to tell how paranoid I'm being at this point. GTDI is loud, but how loud is normal is still my question. Three things are now of concern.
1. At neutral idle it seems okay. At idle in gear with my foot on the brake, I hear a tick again. Sounds like from the same spot in the top end, front passenger side above the alt. I put it from D or R into N/P and it stops. this is NOT the HPFP. I get the RPM's over a grand and it stops. ANY IDEAS?
2. At idle in N/P, every so often I feel a little shake in the truck. I can see the RPM's raise/lower a couple hundred. No A/C on. No extra battery load. Fan may be on or off.
3. At around the rear drivers door standing outside I could here pressure and a "glug glug glug". It sounded to me just like an exhaust leak. I noticed water dripping from each end of the cat. Honestly I didnt know this had weep holes in it, so I suppose this is normal. It does seem to have significant pressure coming from those two small holes, enough I can hear the air. I dont have any sensors/lights indicating an issue, but now I almost wonder if there's a blockage or some kind of back pressure issue.
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Guess what...Our Lovely dealership mechanics thought they fixed my turbo and it was to fix rattle...well maybe...NOW after parts replaced, I requested that they drive it hard up and down the service road to check and see if its functioning right...well there is a miss in #2, they replaced plug and coil pack, still a miss. Ford Techline has been contacted and no fix yet. Dont you think that Ford should with non factory warranty, replace my ecoboost????????
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FIRST POST!!! And it's not good. Loyal Ford guy here, bought my first used 2012 Ecoboost FX4 with 79K miles in January. Short story long, I've already had the shudder/misfire issue, spent $800 out of pocket on plugs, boots, and intercooler TSBs. When that didn't fix the problem, had the throttle body replaced which seems to have fixed the problem. NOW I have the cold start rattle, and it was LOUD this morning. I'm at 83K now, so no warranties apply.
Here's where I need your help/opinions: I have a 5000 mile road trip with a trailer and the family coming up in TWO weeks. Since the repair will be all out of pocket expense, do I spend the thousands at the dealership to implement the belt/phaser changeout, use my own trusted mechanic, or even go so far as to try and trade the truck in? Backup plan would be to use my '04 Expedition for the trip instead. Ready, GO!
Thanks in advance,
David
Here's where I need your help/opinions: I have a 5000 mile road trip with a trailer and the family coming up in TWO weeks. Since the repair will be all out of pocket expense, do I spend the thousands at the dealership to implement the belt/phaser changeout, use my own trusted mechanic, or even go so far as to try and trade the truck in? Backup plan would be to use my '04 Expedition for the trip instead. Ready, GO!
Thanks in advance,
David
Barf - sorry to hear it man. I'm in almost the same boat having crossed the 70k barrier and wondering if its going to get worse by 80k or not. The good thing about a long road trip is that your miles are 90% big days and the rattle is only generally a problem on cold startups, once oil pressure is up the timing tensioner is fine for keeping tension on the belt appropriately. In the last year since owning my truck I've had the clickity clack of death only happen about 6 times, once two days in a row and then disappear for weeks or months. There was a post up above noting that he seemed to have issues only when using a Mobil1 filter vs the OEM, which might change how oil is draining in the system with a checkvalve, etc. What filter are you using?
If I was in your shoes I'd either bite the bullet and trade it in saying **** it, or since you're out of warrenty, drive it until it is actually doing it regularly or you get the check engine that timing is out of wack. Some guys are having it "fixed" only to have the same problem re-appear days or weeks later, so I'm not at all convinced that the TSB is actually fixing the root cause of the problem yet, I wouldn't spend my own money on that.
If I was in your shoes I'd either bite the bullet and trade it in saying **** it, or since you're out of warrenty, drive it until it is actually doing it regularly or you get the check engine that timing is out of wack. Some guys are having it "fixed" only to have the same problem re-appear days or weeks later, so I'm not at all convinced that the TSB is actually fixing the root cause of the problem yet, I wouldn't spend my own money on that.
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I've got a motorcraft filter on the shelf ready to go. Still same oil and filter from when I bought it, was gonna change right before we leave, but think I'll move that up to this weekend. Thanks for the advice!
Did you buy it from a ford dealer used? you might take it back to them and say WTF mate and see if they'll cover it since it sounds like a pre-existing condition (that someone else might have traded in on). If you bought it from a non-dealer used though, doh
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No one who has had the phasers replaced has complained about the noise coming back. Only those that had just time timing chain replaced noticed the noise come back.
Lets hope thats true - the new phaser-included TSB has only been around a few months so still time for problems to come back... Anyone have an idea of what the cost is of having the work of the newest phaser TSB done if you're paying yourself?
I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere but just to remind myself - aside from the actual rattle, is there engine damage being done when you've got the rattle that wouldn't be covered by parts replaced in the TSB service? (chain/phasers/tensioner)
I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere but just to remind myself - aside from the actual rattle, is there engine damage being done when you've got the rattle that wouldn't be covered by parts replaced in the TSB service? (chain/phasers/tensioner)
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Almost as bad...Dave Smith in Idaho. Chrysler dealer. Got a 3 month/3K mile warranty, but that is gone now, and when I was fighting the throttle body issue (backordered for a month) they said they had already lost too much money on the truck. They won't stand by a used Ford. I'm on my own.
sounds like you're the perfect candidate to get an exact price of having to pay for the work yourself under the newest TSB that also replaces the phasers. If its 1k it doesn't sound so bad if you're in love with the truck, at 3k, thats probably the same amount you'd eat just trading it in on a new one
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Update: had the truck back after the most recent TSB, cam phazers and timing chain replaced, had it less than a week and the truck has been at the dealership since Tuesday. It sounds like a diesel. Tech said he had never seen the issue after doing the TSB that he claims he personally has done three off. Got a call today saying a pulley wasn't seated right? I asked how that would make the truck sound that way, I was talking to service manager, and he was not able to answer it. They are putting it back together in the morning to see if that was the problem. As to the cost off the TSB for the timing chain, mine was covered under warranty-powertrain , I was told it was just under $2000.00. My paperwork just shows 0's next to cost and then "warranty". Hope that helps for those looking at cost.
Soooo....I just had the infamous time chain rattle upon start up. This occurred conveniently after a fresh oil change with Amsoil and Amsoil filter. Called the Ford dealer and they said you MUST you a ford filter because the Ford filter has a seal the prevents oil from coming back out of the filter and that contributes to the timing chain rattle. I have read a lot of information on here and have never observed anyone saying that this is a solution to the problem?! Let me know you thoughts. Ole girl has 50k miles and is a 2013 had Ford filters all her life until now because I am an Amsoil fan.
2019 f150 3.5 ecoboost crew cab 4x4 heavy tow package fx4 6.5' bed, lots of modifications
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You're like the third person I've heard that got the rattle right after using a non OEM oil filter... coincidence?
yea that's deg interesting supporting data. could be just a coincidence of course but certainly suspicious. can anyone confirm that the Mobil 1 and amsoil filters -do not- have a similar check valve? or even confirm they've opened an oem and the check valve isn't just dealer/interweb folklore?
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