Ok so some may know about this some may not but it is something that is coming on strong with many showings at dealerships across America. So as most know it is timing chains that are prematurely stretching causing this startup noise. The news is that there is updated parts out there to address this and Ford now has a TSB on this issue formally admitting to it being a common problem. I go over it all in this video. There is also a link to just how it sounds in the description of the video on youtube. Hopefully more dealers will be willing to dive into the engine with some guidance from Ford now.
Ford F150 3.5L Ecoboost Rattle Upon Start Up- Timing Chain Stretch Issues TSB
makuloco2000
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first rule of aftermarket warranties, never have any work done untill its authorized.
Had an aftermarket warranty for my wheels and tires on my Audi, took into the dealer who point blank told me they wouldnt schedule work on it till an technician inspected it and sent photos to the company for approval. two days later i had a brand new wheel and tire.
your dealership should TOTALLY pay the cost of that transmission repair.
Had an aftermarket warranty for my wheels and tires on my Audi, took into the dealer who point blank told me they wouldnt schedule work on it till an technician inspected it and sent photos to the company for approval. two days later i had a brand new wheel and tire.
your dealership should TOTALLY pay the cost of that transmission repair.
Update on the timing chain. I just heard from the dealership. They have been approved to perform the timing chain TSB with all the misc. parts. They will be tearing it down on Monday. The dealership is also trying to get the warranty company to approve a loaner vehicle for me also. As for the lead frame repair, I guess I am on the hook for that, so far. I may try and fight it when they get the timing chain TSB completed.
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Sorry to guys who PM’d me Info asking about the parts for proper timing chain service. My messages weren’t received
Please email me ryan@rmbmotorworks.com if you would like to know the correct and latest parts list from ford OEM / Motorcraft.
Easier to not miss PM’s with my email.
Please PM me also if you’d like I am updated the list Monday.
Please email me ryan@rmbmotorworks.com if you would like to know the correct and latest parts list from ford OEM / Motorcraft.
Easier to not miss PM’s with my email.
Please PM me also if you’d like I am updated the list Monday.
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I am getting ready to do this repair on my own dime. I ran into some issues I am hoping the experts can help on.
1) Tasca parts shows the right chain arm guide as "discontinued". Part number I have is AT4Z-6K255-A. Is this being redesigned? Is there a new part number? Or is Tasca just wrong?
2) It's my understanding if you purchase the water pump assembly, you don't need the water pump gasket and o-ring. Is this correct?
3) What is this auxillary pump? There's two gaskets to choose from depending upon year. Do I need one of these gaskets?
4) I know the crank bolt and the cam bolts both need replacing because they are TTY. I also noticed on FordTechmakuloco's video that the fuel pump bolts are also TTY. Does anyone have the correct part number for these bolts? Are there other TTY bolts that I am unaware of?
5) Finally, when removing the valve cover there are what appears to be rubber seals around the spark plugs and the VCTs? Do these need to be replaced? Do people get vacuum leaks at these locations?
If you can help answer any of these questions I'd be most grateful. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this monster thread!
1) Tasca parts shows the right chain arm guide as "discontinued". Part number I have is AT4Z-6K255-A. Is this being redesigned? Is there a new part number? Or is Tasca just wrong?
2) It's my understanding if you purchase the water pump assembly, you don't need the water pump gasket and o-ring. Is this correct?
3) What is this auxillary pump? There's two gaskets to choose from depending upon year. Do I need one of these gaskets?
4) I know the crank bolt and the cam bolts both need replacing because they are TTY. I also noticed on FordTechmakuloco's video that the fuel pump bolts are also TTY. Does anyone have the correct part number for these bolts? Are there other TTY bolts that I am unaware of?
5) Finally, when removing the valve cover there are what appears to be rubber seals around the spark plugs and the VCTs? Do these need to be replaced? Do people get vacuum leaks at these locations?
If you can help answer any of these questions I'd be most grateful. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this monster thread!
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I highly suggest purchasing the HELM manual, these are common questions answered there and every bolt in the motor is tty
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Great advice! Ebay is my friend! It's sad that Chilton and Haynes have been reduced to "how to change your oil" or "how to check your tire pressure."
Is there a copy of the actual TSB somewhere on the forums? Searching only yields parts of it or invoices from folks having the work done. It's my understanding I should be looking for TSB#16-0027. This is the latest?
What year is your truck? VIN?
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I just finished this procedure up on a 2011 and as far as I know, they have the same timing components. Still, do yourself a favor and order from a ford parts department so they can verify fit. The part numbers I list below must be verified. Although I am 99% sure they are correct, do your homework. I used fordpartworld.com because that is the website of a local dealer but they ship and they turn their parts around within a day or two. Sometimes tasca can take a bit longer. Look for the parts website of a local dealer.
1. My research shows that they are superseding AT4Z-6K255-A with BL3Z-6K255-A. They look a bit different but I put the new part in my truck and it fit perfectly. Ford does this all the time as they put updated parts in newer models and phase out the old. You can still get the old one on ebay but not sure why. The real issue is that they also appear to be phasing out the old tensioner in favor of a new aluminum design. I was able to get both and installed the older model because it seemed better built and I have heard of problems with the new design.
2. Yes that is correct. ER3Z-8501-C is the kit and includes both gaskets and the pulley, which you need because they have changed to a 3 bolt design. You can 3 of the 4 old bolts.
3. Aux pump is the coolant cross-over/pass-through that also includes the idler gear. Comes with the gasket installed. BR3Z-8501-D
4. W503297-S900 Should be sold as a 2 pack but my dealer sold as singles...just fyi.
5. No they don't need to be replaced unless they are worn/brittle/cracked etc. The valve cover is a pain to get off because it does hang up on the VCT solenoid connectors and spark plug tubes. I worked them off slowly and used a bit of solvent around them to aid in removal. Just take your time and work them off slowly.
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Awesome! Thanks. What is your source for the update to the tensioner arm? That part does not come up as F150 for me. Perhaps it's too new and they haven't updated their part numbers. It does show for 3.5L.
Is the arm wider? I was thinking perhaps they made it have a tighter starting position, so when it loosens up it has more travel before it gets all full of slack. Same thing with the tensioner. Does it appear to have more travel than the steel one?
On the Aux Pump re-using the bolts with some thread locker is okay? I was planning it this way but Ryan suggested everything was TTY. I only have 68K on the motor and haven't driven it since I started hearing the rattle, so I am debating if I should change the AUX pump or not. It's digging deeper and another $40. Is there a way to check the slop on that idler gear? I know, I know you're already 2 days into it and out about a grand, so what's another $40? Right?
You've been a great help, I am actually looking forward to the challenge! Installing new parts is always fun.
Is the arm wider? I was thinking perhaps they made it have a tighter starting position, so when it loosens up it has more travel before it gets all full of slack. Same thing with the tensioner. Does it appear to have more travel than the steel one?
On the Aux Pump re-using the bolts with some thread locker is okay? I was planning it this way but Ryan suggested everything was TTY. I only have 68K on the motor and haven't driven it since I started hearing the rattle, so I am debating if I should change the AUX pump or not. It's digging deeper and another $40. Is there a way to check the slop on that idler gear? I know, I know you're already 2 days into it and out about a grand, so what's another $40? Right?
You've been a great help, I am actually looking forward to the challenge! Installing new parts is always fun.
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I just checked my order over at Autonation white bear lake and it looks like they are substituting the tensioner and the tensioner arm for the new parts you listed. I think the older steel tensioner is being superseded and neither of the older parts will be available once stock runs out. Are the negative comments on the new tensioner in this thread?
Post #800.
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Damn. I'll have to see what they say about the sub. I respect that Ryan has done more than just a few of these. The proof is in the experience. I left a comment on the 4th Fordtechmakuloco video, we'll see if Brian can confirm this is now the new part going forward. I may have to ebay an old one before they all go! I thought perhaps there were issues using the new tensioner with the older tensioner arm, but his photo clearly shows both updated parts being used. Why does Ford have to make this so confusing for everyone?
Source is the ford parts guy I used and the fact that that tensioner arm is listed as an alternate to AT4Z-6K255-A on several parts websites. Not sure why ford can't get their distribution chain in order. Arm is basically the same, no more thickness than the old one. The new tensioner also doesn't have more travel. In the end, I don't believe the tensioner is the problem. It is the lack of oil to the phasers that is causing excessive timing chain stretch.
I certainly don't want to argue with what Ryan is saying, but the ford service manual only clearly identifies 8 bolts/nuts as needing to be replaced during this procedure. 2x exhaust phaser bolts, 2x intake phaser bolts, 2x HPFP bolts, harmonic balancer bolt and the nut on the HPFP line (which I didn't replace because that's just crazy. Torque it back to 71 in/lb and call it a day.) Almost every other bolt in the entire process is a torque plus angle bolt, which is different than a torque plus angle to yield bolt. Water pump, chain guides, tensioner, aux pump, front cover bolts, valve covers, manifold, HPFP flare nut etc. etc. are all torque plus angle and are reusable according to the service manual. I wouldn't use any thread locker on any bolt in the engine.
I changed every single timing component listed in the manual. All 4 guides, primary and secondary timing chains and tensioners, VCT solenoids, phasers, idler gear, cam sprocket...everything. Also threw in a new water pump, oil cooler, harmonic balancer and thermostat housing (cause a new one looks pretty). Also my truck is at 98K.
You should be able to get the old tensioner through Ford. I see it as still available on most sites I check. You may want to get both and decide for yourself but I just went with Ryan's advice on that and the fact that the aluminum one felt, for lack of a better word, cheap.
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I agree the issue is the phasers not getting the proper oil. Is there some seal inside them that keeps them from bleeding down? Why are they going dry? Was this fixed with the new phaser design? I mean is it as simple as putting a tap on the valve cover and using a small pump to squirt oil on the phasers before startup?? I'll do anything to make sure my grand is well spent. I don't want to see this issue again anytime soon after I repair it. I'll probably just go by the book and drop more coin for the secondary chains, secondary tensioners and aux pump. Was trying to save some money, but it just isn't worth the money to skimp in a situation like this.
So your truck runs much better now? Better than new?
So your truck runs much better now? Better than new?
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What’s arguing with me? I change everything and every bolt. Although torque to yield I have a torque wrench which is able to tell me if a bolt is able to be reused.
New primary tensioners are junk. Coyote guys have been using a boss or gt500 tensioners as an upgrade to the spring style found in the regular coyote. New tensioners are spring and old are ratchet. Both suck if ratchet isn’t hardened and spring suck in general and cause erratic cam movement at high rpm and revving our past 7200 with spring kit and stock or aftermarket cams
Newest Tensioner arm right side is different than the old one, the guides runs longer and arch’s the chain further or closer to the crank sprocket. Nothing against ford tech guy on you tube, but that video is very scattered. There is half the timing chain service procedure he doesn’t discuss. Most critical, cleanliness.
Also, we use timing marks like ford, but when blocks are decked and heads decked and custom cams used, decreeing the cam shafts is a must. Oem marks typically place cams 1.75.-3 degrees incorrect on timing but tune and ecu logic makes up for it. For the every day average guy, this is not a job for them. Variable dual overhead cam engines are not for someone with basic skills. What happens when you receive a cam phaser from factory in a new box and they box it with it full advanced or retarded to the wrong side it should have been. Nothing goes over that, not even the manual. This is the stuff that I recommend finding someone who knows what’s what.
It’s happened, 2 people I know well bent valves.
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Aluminum tensioner felt cheap yes. But is is not as consistent as the ratchet style having to rely on a spring and oil pressure at the back side.
Cheap feeling was one non technical reason yes, the actual specifics are the reason it isn’t ideal.
The spring ones started life in none urbo applications if that says anything
@rbrown I sent you another email about the kit but haven't seen an invoice come in yet. Figured I would post here as well in case the pm doesn't go through.
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Got it man, I’ve been on the road and working on a project which was around the clock, and not planned. So the last two days I didn’t have anything with me including clothes or a tooth brush. Walmart’s at 12am are interesting crowds. So I was without my computer but got the email.
I’ll be pulling in the driveway here in 5 minutes. 36 hours working straight, ill crash and shoot it over again around dinner.
Ended up putting in a couple straight days on this project getting turbos done and dressing it to be dropped in. Such a nice setup, worth every second of no sleep followed by a 6 hour ride thru the night. Give ya hollar in a bit. Thanks
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