[DNA Dan]

So on the new primary chain tensioner I recieved, I was also told this supercedes the previous part and that they need new bolts. So I was subbed the new tensioner arm, the tensioner itself, and bolts for the tensioner which were added to my order. I have read the part of this thread where questions were raised about the new tensioner being problematic. I have a stock motor and don't plan to race the truck. Should I just install the updated part? I am still on the fence about this, because it doesn't seem like the tensioner was really the issue to begin with, however if the new tensioner was designed in conjunction with the updated tensioner arm, that may be good reason to use them together.

On the other hand, there's plenty of fixed trucks using the older tensioner, and actually I don't think the TSB even calls for replacing this part does it? Seems like they just reset it.

 

[RMB_Ryan]

We see more failures with this new style tensioner. This is something that has been upgraded in the v8 world for a while now.

 

[RMB_Ryan]

So on the new primary chain tensioner I recieved, I was also told this supercedes the previous part and that they need new bolts. So I was subbed the new tensioner arm, the tensioner itself, and bolts for the tensioner which were added to my order. I have read the part of this thread where questions were raised about the new tensioner being problematic. I have a stock motor and don't plan to race the truck. Should I just install the updated part? I am still on the fence about this, because it doesn't seem like the tensioner was really the issue to begin with, however if the new tensioner was designed in conjunction with the updated tensioner arm, that may be good reason to use them together.

On the other hand, there's plenty of fixed trucks using the older tensioner, and actually I don't think the TSB even calls for replacing this part does it? Seems like they just reset it.

You should put a new old style ratcheting style tensioner on. The reason you should change it and replace it for the alike part is that the ratcheting gear/teeth wear on them, and and it is a part that requires changing. Pretty common, but I recommend changing it when you do the chain service

 

[DNA Dan]

I won't argue with experience. I ordered one from Tasca but my order has been delayed. I assume this is holding it up because Ford site shows them on backorder.

 

[Litner]

So my 2011 has 98k miles on it and doesn’t appear to have these issues. I’ve always ran high quality oil. I’m I just running on borrowed time?

 

[DNA Dan]

So my 2011 has 98k miles on it and doesn’t appear to have these issues. I’ve always ran high quality oil. I’m I just running on borrowed time?

Mine is a 2012 with ~70K on it. It only rattles every so often after the oil has about 2500 miles on it. I bought it used and have changed the oil about 3 times with the Pennzoil full synthetic. The truck had a tune on it when I bought it, so god knows what the previous owner did to the truck before me. I also take trips where I am 1000's of miles from home, so I tend to be overly paranoid about these types of things. I want to do whatever I can to prevent a mishap while I am far from home. Also, I don't want to damage the engine by continuing to run it with an intermittent rattle - Just doesn't seem right in my opinion. From my research the 2011 & 2012's seem to have this issue the most. There were updates to parts involved, the phasers, VCT solenoids, guides, etc. which were implemented going into 2013 and newer from this generation. If your truck is not making the noise, I would not worry about it. There's plenty of trucks on the road that don't have this issue. I would however keep it in the back of your mind, that there's a possibility you may encounter this. Is it a ticking time bomb, IMO no. Is it likely to happen due to your year and mileage, I would suspect so. At your mileage most cars go through a timing chain/belt replacement anyway.

There is a way to check how much stretch you have on your chain by removing the passenger valve cover and scoping the tensioner. You basically count how many "teeth" the tensioner is pushed out. I don't recall the number, but if it's pushed out very far, your tensioner is at max or close to it. This is an indication that your chain has stretched beyond it's useful life and the noise will likely happen sooner or later. There's a good video on Youtube of a guy who removed the cab to do this repair. The first video he shows how to scope the tensioner. He also does the timing chain repair, but only replaces the timing chain and tensioner. I don't really agree with the way he does some of the repair (Pretty sloppy IMO) but there are some good tips in there.

 

[RMB_Ryan]

I won't argue with experience. I ordered one from Tasca but my order has been delayed. I assume this is holding it up because Ford site shows them on backorder.

Email me your Info.
Ryan@rmbmotorworks.com I think I can spare one for you.

 

[RMB_Ryan]

So my 2011 has 98k miles on it and doesn’t appear to have these issues. I’ve always ran high quality oil. I’m I just running on borrowed time?

Data log variable cam timing intake bank one actual (in degrees) go for a drive with truck and oil up to temp. Report back what the highest value was for the day

 

[snakebitten]

Data log variable cam timing intake bank one actual (in degrees) go for a drive with truck and oil up to temp. Report back what the highest value was for the day

Great tip!
Can you elaborate?

What would be a relief?
What would be an uh oh, need to plan a repair?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[DNA Dan]

Email me your Info.
Ryan@rmbmotorworks.com I think I can spare one for you.

I appreciate the offer but I am in no hurry to rip into this thing. I have another car I have been driving. .. unless the tensioner you have is tricked out in some way?

 

[RMB_Ryan]

I appreciate the offer but I am in no hurry to rip into this thing. I have another car I have been driving. .. unless the tensioner you have is tricked out in some way?

No, was just offering to send you one. It’s just new factory oem. No worries [emoji106]

 

[RMB_Ryan]

Great tip!
Can you elaborate?

What would be a relief?
What would be an uh oh, need to plan a repair?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Of course.

Intake cam timing is data logged in SCT as variable cam timing intake bank one actual, bank two actual, and the same for exhaust cams. Unit of measure is degrees. Cam movement on the intake bank 1 is the passenger side or right side intake cam.

So variable cam timing specifications are that it should read from 0 to -60 degrees.

When we see the cam roll over into the positive position, such as + 6 or more on a stock motor it means one of two things generally.
1- there is an oiling issue to the VCT solenoids
2- you will eventually trigger DTC P0016 which is the parameter through ford IDS, through sct and other tuning software. It indicates the timing chain is worn or stretched, allowing the intake cam to roll positive or aft. +6 degrees when driving while engine is at full operating temperature. It is something that should be addressed in my opinion once you see this value. Generally when a DTC is set it should be reviewed and not just cleared in my opinion.

The exceptions:

We see some positive movement on motors (+3deg) which have had their deck milled, heads milled, and use higher lift cams and stiffer springs. Usually when heavier springs are installed, cams with more lift will lesson the positive intake cam movement caused by the higher spring pressures. Seeing some positive movement is 100% normal on milled and performance built assemblies which have literally have also been made shorter. The truth is with tuning software available this movement can be accommodated for and a none issue at the small amount of positive movement seen

 

[snakebitten]

Excellent explanation.
Much appreciated, especially since it is Saturday night and you don't HAVE to be doing this.

So if someone built a live gauge monitor using this pid, on their screen, they could watch this value live even if they weren't data logging?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[RMB_Ryan]

Excellent explanation.
Much appreciated, especially since it is Saturday night and you don't HAVE to be doing this.

So if someone built a live gauge monitor using this pid, on their screen, they could watch this value live even if they weren't data logging?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Thank you sir. Yes they can monitor it live on screen once added as a PID in a config file. If I am not mistaken on any sct devise and HPT. Have a nice weekend [emoji4]

 

[snakebitten]

OK, on the Ngauge the pid is called Actual Intake Cam Position Bank 1(or whichever bank/cam you choose)

I set it as a gauge lower left column
And check out the pid above!
New firmware supposedly enables OAR reading!
Matt has the tune set to poll for a reading once the truck hits 20mph. So sitting parked I can't verify it. (just loaded the firmware a few minutes ago)
If I understand it right, I'll read "1" if the OAR senses 93 octane. And less than 1 if not.

If it works, it'll be awesome!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[RMB_Ryan]

OK, on the Ngauge the pid is called Actual Intake Cam Position Bank 1(or whichever bank/cam you choose)

I set it as a gauge lower left column
And check out the pid above!
New firmware supposedly enables OAR reading!
Matt has the tune set to poll for a reading once the truck hits 20mph. So sitting parked I can't verify it. (just loaded the firmware a few minutes ago)
If I understand it right, I'll read "1" if the OAR senses 93 octane. And less than 1 if not.

If it works, it'll be awesome!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Good info. I really like the “real” oil pressure reading. Is that available on 17+ trucks or is that something Tifosi whipped together for you?

 

[snakebitten]

That's just a picture in the dark of an Ngauge tuner. (the tuner that HPTuner tunes get loaded on) Remember, SCT was very delayed at cracking Gen2's. So Ngauge/HPTuner got the jump. That's why I bought.

It's a round tuner screen and I have it up by the A-pillar for glance-view

What you are seeing is a "6 gauge view" on the display.
So that's just 6 pids I chose to monitor
I don't need boost because Ford put a gorgeous Boost gauge available on the dash.

And finally no, Jerry drives one of those dinosaur trucks.

In fact, when he was railing on my 18, seasoning the Brembo pads, he thought he felt flutter at WOT high revs. Instead, I think it was because he got close to the lane lines on the road and my truck has a vibrator in the steering wheel that subtly Warns you of straying to the edge of the lane.

Ford has done a lot since 2011-12

Im just saying. Lol

 

[devin]

The timing phaser clacking and a stretched chain are generally two different things and should not be treated as one.

1-When the variable cam timing in degrees intake bank1 rolls aft (positive) +6 degrees you will throw a check engine light indicating a stretched chain.

2-I am not saying not the have the phaser clacking issue addressed but if you are able to watch your
variable cam timing as mentioned you ***can*** generally know where you stand.

3-Oil analysis will be important in my opinion to monitor wear. The phasers clacking on cold start is a result of phaser bleeding down or draining back which it is not suppose to do.

4- If you want to help your situation regarding the cold start noise. (let’s say you don’t have the money and are in a tight spot) and you literally cannot fix the truck do to those type of circumstances)
Put your foot to the floor turn the key until the oil pressure builds then let off the peddle and start the truck. Oil pressure will build filling what has drained back or bled down. It isn’t a permanent fix and should not be treated as such. However it will prevent that cold start clacking noise which will prevent accelerated wear in the phasers. It will do nothing with any accelerated stretching of the chain.

If you do notice your variable cam timing intake bank 1 rolling to + 6 degrees or more, you should have it fixed because letting it go, it will eventually stretch past what is acceptable and you will bend a valve or have other issues.

Point #3 is interesting to me. I get a < 1 sec rattle generally on mornings, but a much more significant rattle (2-3 sec) occurred last week after I changed the oil. It didn't even sit overnight, it was just ran a few hours after draining and refilling the oil. A week later, it is back to normal, no rattle or just under a second.

 

[RMB_Ryan]

Here is something I wanted to share. Don’t believe everything you see on YouTube, or whatever or whomever is saying or giving information.

Generally speaking, YouTube is not the best expert based knowledge.

Here Last week and this week I tore down a 2011 new ford oem long block assembly as well as a 2016 long block assembly. Both brand new long blocks with latest updated part numbers.

This is the tensioner ford uses, and to this day. So I’d suggest using the proper tensioner if you are doing this work yourself.

 

[DNA Dan]

Why are you tearing up a 2016? Did it rattle? Or are you just using them to modify?